Recently my son has had the opportunity to move from a local football team to a national club academy

On lots of levels I am incredibly proud of him and want him to succeed with a football career

But in other ways it really worries me. I want him to get a good education, have friends and experience life and play other sports, all things that have been quoted as things that can be taken.

There was a recent Panorama programme about how the lads are ‘abused’/treated as commodities, and in fact it damages their mental health. He’s already played against 1 premier league academy team and the lads were utterly professional and focused (maybe too much for 12 yr olds)

Has anyone had any experience of their kids and football academies?

Not with football but ballet, daughter got in to one of the four vocational schools at 13. Been a mixed experience from the highs of her getting a place to the lows of how the kids were taught, one or two favourites and the rest seemed to be there to make up numbers. She’s now at a different upper school and much happier and still set on dance as a career. One of the other ballet dad’s was heavily involved in football, had been through the academy system as a player and is now involved with talent selection. His experience was also mixed, you can be flying high and then a new manager comes in and you’re out. It’s a harsh world and very competitive, many don’t make it through, same with dance, of my daughter’s year, there were very few who started at 11 who have gone on to upper school, many dropped out due to the pressures, disillusionment or finding out they weren’t good enough.

Two things to bear in mjnd, if you son doesn’t take up the place he won’t be a footballer, second there are no guarantees, you have to take it day by day and have a plan B.

It’s hard on the rest of the family as well, both financially and in terms of time and commitment.

Looking back I’d still let my daughter go, she’s still very dedicated to what she wants to do, if that drive isn’t there though unless they are exceptionally talented it won’t end well, this is properly competitive and failure is a real option.

if you son doesn’t take up the place he won’t be a footballer,

Is that what you meant?

No experience to offer, but I would be scrutinising their safeguarding policy and procedures very carefully if it was my son. Perhaps even talking to some ex attendees if possible. Good luck.

Going back 10-15 years, a colleagues son was at Derby academy. Released at 12 as he was small for his age, went to Forest, who I think either closed or reduced their academy and he ended up at Burton. Played a few matches for the reserves and a couple for the first team, then last I heard went to lower league Scottish football.

It’s brutally hard and focused and most youngsters don’t make the big time.

Another former colleague went through West Ham academy on the 80s, made a couple of first team appearances (he’s in a Pannini sticker album!) and then had to quit at 20 after a leg injury. We met working in a call centre.

It’s tough when someone has talent and a dream. It probably won’t work out, looking at statistics. BUT is it better to regret trying and failing than regret not trying? Might not work out as a playing career, but might lead to coaching, sports science instead. Quite a few players get a big break in their 20s working up from lower league after missing out on the academy route.

My eldest is a talented flute player, county level and higher. He knows his chance of making it as a professional orchestra musician are slim, so hasn’t gone down a specialist conservatoire route, he’s doing music at uni with a view to seeing what might come of that in terms of contacts, networking and having excellent A level results to fall back on, which he’s lucky to have as a back up plan.

I agree with what’s been said so far, let him go for his dream, but try and keep him grounded at the same time.

My own sport was skiing and to me that was relatively straightforward, with your ability you went up the rankings and there was a pathway to national level 90% based on ability. Although I do recall being at the point of England Squad selection and because my parents didn’t have the money to buy a couple of buses for the squad, someone else got selected!

Money appears to be the root of the problem in the football academy system and kids are pawns/commodities for agents/clubs to make money 🙁

A friend’s kid was signed by an academy and is a still trying to get to a decent level. She said that a lot of academies around here (presumably Fulham, Chelsea, palace, etc) just sign any one half decent up en masse as it stops someone else getting them and there’s such a high attrition rate so it’s not a true indicator of a potential career. I think her kid was last playing for teams sorted out by an agent against low level Scottish teams in the hope one of the scouts watching online would chuck them a contract.

There was a piece on the BBC before the euros about Bukayo Saka and how well he did academically alongside his footballing rise. He isn’t the only one every year in the manchester evening news I see an article about how well some of the manchester city academy do in their A levels.

I think as a parent you have to take an active part in encouraging children along the right path, and not just trusting outside influences and peer pressure will result in the right outcome. That doesn’t just apply to kids in football academies, although that might take extra work due to the possible head turning temptations.

If you negotiate the right path, I suspect that even the academic opportunities are greater than a standard comprehensive school.

My lad (12) has been in one since U9’s but we are at a league two club which is quite relaxed compared to others. It is an opportunity that lots of others do not get so Id say go for it but remember it is ultimately for fun, if there is no fun you and him will not last. My lad goes because he loves it and he knows his chances of making it are very slim but we will have a good time along the way. If you are relaxed and realistic about it then it will be a very good phase of his childhood. It is also a big ask for your family as well. My lad trains 3 times a week for 2.5 hours and then a game on Sunday, so it does require a lot of commitment especially if you have other children. My sons club have rules about school so if school suffers then no footy. If you want to PM with any other questions more than happy to help.

My youngest is at a football academy from a certain Bundesliga team sponsored by a well known sugary soft drink manufacturer. The pressure they are put under is incredible ( not in small part by the parents)! It is also a lot of stress for the parents. For example he has training three times a week at the other end of the city from us so we have to take him there and pick him up. Then often they have extra games in the week called test games and every weekend he has a game or a tournament. The tournaments generally start at 9am and finish at 4pm and are all over Germany. So it means either we have to get up at stupid o’clock at the weekend and drive there or they travel in the team minibus and sleep overnight. In these situations the parents are not expected to come but a lot do which means you feel obliged to go too as your child will feel left out. My son is 10. At the moment he loves it and it was his decision to go there but we are not going to force him if or when he doesn’t want to anymore. Plus it’s cut throat. The clubs can suddenly decide your child is not good enough and that’s it they are out. I have an old school friend whose son was at the WBA academy until he was 19 but got injured and then dumped.
So just be prepared that it takes as much commitment from the parents as the children.

No experience of my kids, but I’m a coach at a grassroots club, and have seen a few kids move to local (premier and league 1) academies.

They tend to train two evenings a week with games at weekends. Games could be anywhere in the country. For example, Newcastle u9s played Leeds last weekend. That’s a big travel commitment week in week out, although the kids tend to travel together.

At the end of the day, does your kid love playing football, and will he continue to do so if he goes to an academy? That’s still the most important thing. The chances of becoming a pro, even if he’s attending an academy is so small, but the chance he can love football for the rest of his life is very high, if managed right.

if you son doesn’t take up the place he won’t be a footballer,

So what? I’ve played and loved football for 40 years of my life, without being professional. Still playing once a week at 46. If the focus is ‘you’re going to be a pro son’, it’s the wrong approach.

Looking from the outside as a local U13 club dad (kids train once a week, play once a week) sounds brutal for both kid and parents. I’d love to think that those responsible for managing the hierarchy care (like Ifra ^^), but cynical me says supportive you and your ambitious and enthusiastic offspring are merely a commodity to be traded/discarded as appropriate. The pyramid too seems ever expanding with n-level affiliations all set up to harbour and shatter dreams.

Edit – to Warton’s point above I let my kids join a team so that wherever in the world they went they’d have the confidence to join in and kick a ball around (work 5-a-side, beach in Spain…)

What Scuttler says.
Many of Thud’s friends have been in and dropped from several Scottish Academies, a couple of which have then folded leaving them with no team. They don’t play any more, at the age of 13!

Even the top Premier academies will cull the entire U16 squad a week before the season starts – which is bonkers when some of them play for Scotland.

Remember that an entire team is put together to nurture just one player. It’s very wrong.

Remember that an entire team is put together to nurture just one player. It’s very wrong.

this is very true. one of my best mates sons is best friends with a current Premier league footballer (still a teenager) The week he signed a pro contract, the rest of his team was told they were no longer needed.

That’s 14 or 15 kids, thinking they were in with a chance, who in reality never had a chance.

it’s brutal, so to my earlier point, if it’s fun, with no expectations from you as a parent, go for it. if you’re dreaming of 50k a week for your son, best to manage those expectations.

Just remembered I once did a property inspection at a house where a not unattractive lady in her late 30s was boarding 4 or 5 of the local academy players, aged 16-18.

It felt as weird as it sounded, like I was on the set of some dodgy 80s porn film. There’s a joke in there somewhere about ball control.

My nephew’s just signed as a schoolboy pro [16 turning 17] after being at a different Championship club’s academy since he was 7.

He lives around an hour away from the academy he was at and my sister and BiL’s weekends have been eaten up for a decade through having to take him training or to games. Then there’s 2/3 evenings during the week when he’ll be playing or training, so unless you can spend the time taking him back and forth I’d try and make sure the academy is close by.

When they first enter the academy system, they do tell you to temper any beliefs that your kid will make it as a pro one day. The success rate is 1%, so only one in 100 kids that go into the academy system ultimately make it as a professional player in any league.

My nephew is a pretty decent player, but he’s a nice kid who always does as he’s asked and attitude and behaviour is as important as skill, mess about and they kick you out double quick. They gave him a scholarship to a private school at 10, so he’s been out of the state school system for the most part and he did really well in his GCSE’s this summer. So in that respect it’s been a positive experience. But, it is very cut-throat and they do kick kids to the kerb frequently without much ceremony and there’s very little after care when they do so. His academy club wasn’t very good with his injuries either, he spent nearly six months out with a knee issue and getting them to diagnose and treat it as they should [with specialist diagnosis and treatment] was a battle.

We’re a pretty big football family [we’ve all played at a decent level across the years] and my cousin’s son’s son joined an academy earlier this year. He’s had enough of the travelling and commitment already and he’s thinking of trying to persuade his 8 year old that playing in a local amateur team will be just as good. But once the kids have a had a taste of being given kit by a big professional club and playing on nice pitches, at that age they think they’re going to be the next Marcus Rashford. So it can be tricky.

Based on colleagues experiences I would proceed with extreme caution basically for the the points made above.

If you want your kid to hate football, this is a very good way of going about it.

If you want your kid to hate football, this is a very good way of going about it.

Although there can be plenty of downsides I think to say you child will end up hating football if he joins an academy is a bit extreme. It all depends on how the opportunity is viewed, if the parents and child go into it thinking they are automatically going to be a Pro then it will not end well. If you go into it with eyes wide open and manage expectations of the reality then it is an amazing experience not many get the chance to do and will not last forever. Just think of the places and teams he can play against, the experiences he will and how much fun along the way. My lad had a pre-season game away against Liverpool this year and just to see the faces and memories he has from the day alone would make it all worthwhile if it ended tomorrow. There’s no doubt its hard work and there will be many knocks along the way but really its still just a group of lads playing footy. I would say give it a go, you can always leave if it doesn’t work out for what ever reason ( although they will hold your registration to stop you going to other academies).

Out of interest (because there are apparently a few people who seem to know the system), is it obvious E.g. at age 12 which kids are going to ‘make it’ vs the 99%? Or do kids progress / change enough over the years that the ‘average’ mid-pack 12 year old academy player has a shot when they get to 16-17?

Out of interest (because there are apparently a few people who seem to know the system), is it obvious E.g. at age 12 which kids are going to ‘make it’ vs the 99%? Or do kids progress / change enough over the years that the ‘average’ mid-pack 12 year old academy player has a shot when they get to 16-17?

Its all about how they develop in that time, Ive had a bit of time around academies and scouts looking at 7,8,9 year olds and personally think its bonkers that they are being scouted at that age.

Ive seen kids who are scoring goals for fun at 12 years old, but by the time everyone else catches up physically at 16/17 they are no better than the rest.

I know a scout at a Premier league academy. I say scout – he was one of the dads of a kid that was in the academy (now left) and he got to know the coaches – he has no real skill set to be a scout but they just look to have people at as many games around the country as they can and the aim of his role is to just collect the contact details of the kids that stand out. Find the best players in the best teams and get them before anyone else. Its a numbers game. They are constantly looking to better what they have.

By all means go for it – you can’t really not give it a try. But you do need to manage the expectations. One thing that might be worth doing is looking for a really good local team. Another friend took her son out of a league 1 academy and went to a local club side that have a really strong track record. That seems to work very well as those clubs are not constantly recruiting like the pro academies are and they have scouts at their games most weeks – if you are good enough then they will find you.

Out of interest (because there are apparently a few people who seem to know the system), is it obvious E.g. at age 12 which kids are going to ‘make it’ vs the 99%? Or do kids progress / change enough over the years that the ‘average’ mid-pack 12 year old academy player has a shot when they get to 16-17?

i think 12 is very late in the grand scheme of things, so technical ability – yes, they will know that a 12 year old has the skills needed – as long as the progression continues.

What they can’t predict is the physical side of things. if you don’t grow as expected you’ll be out, even if you have the ability (obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but they are getting less and less).

From second hand stories, i know kids who ‘look decent’ have been discounted from a trial, because the scout has spoken to their dad at the side of the pitch who’s 5’6….. As i said – Brutal.

I’ve seen a lot of this happening at grass roots level. My daughter was playing for her local grass roots team, she’s now in a girls RTC (Regional Talent Club girls U12s) with 15 other girls in her age group. At grass roots, you would often hear parents saying how little ‘Billy’ has been ‘picked up’ by lets says Leeds Utd for example (very often Leeds in our area). They then find out they are travelling 40/50 miles twice a week to training to join 300 or 400 other kids of a similar age . Then they have to pay monthly subs, pay for training kits etc etc. Call me cynical, but all I see is a massive money making operation for the ‘big club’ involved or even an attempt to build a wider geographical fan base. Most kids were back at the grass roots club within a matter of weeks ( or when they got their bill). Yes, I get one or two may make it, but it really is one or two. If these academies are so good at producing home grown talent, why do most Prem / Champ clubs fill the squads with foreign players.

It’s my lads first training session with Col U tonight!!

In their “development squad” as opposed to full academy.

As you said yourself, I’m under no illusion the boys are commodities and not much more. They are looking to get one boy to sell for half a million quid.

Having to pay for session is a thing too but I’m not and doesn’t sound like you are either

I spoke to the lad this morning and told him, he might be there for 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years but at some point they will probably ask him to leave…. So lets enjoy it for what it is…. a great opportunity to get better at something you enjoy.

Oh and something else I’m aware of is they dont give two hoots on the “team” results…. they are only interested in individual performances.

Can the boy dribble and beat the man in front of him …. passing can be taught later !!

TIn many ways that tells you all you need to know !!

They then find out they are travelling 40/50 miles twice a week to training to join 300 or 400 other kids of a similar age . Then they have to pay monthly subs, pay for training kits etc etc.

That sounds like a clubs foundation programme, rather than an academy.

Essentially, let’s just cover every base in case one has slipped through. And yes, the costs definitely help subsidise that approach.

Got back a while ago… Hmm??

The lad did great you wouldn’t have known he was the new boy and more importantly he was double happy on the journey home.

But

On the basis there were 4 coaches for about 14 lads there wasn’t much actual “training” going on. I’m sure he got something out of training/playing with the other lads but there didn’t seem to be much direction from the coachs other than the setting up a of the drills/conditioned games.

Again thanks for all the useful information.

We have already had an open and honest conversation about what may or may not happen.

He also watched this Panorama programme https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000zqs8 with us too.

However for me in the end, as a kid a chased my dream with skiing. I didn’t quite make it (got pretty dam far) and know what dedication it takes, and also how good it feels to be in that elite category, so I want to be able to enable my son to chase his dream, but also still be there to look out for him.

He is also very talented at rugby and sprinting, it is almost a shame to have to leave them behind at such a young age, but he wants to be a footballer, and from what I can tell at the minute for the right reason (not money)

However for me in the end, as a kid a chased my dream with skiing. I didn’t quite make it (got pretty dam far) and know what dedication it takes, and also how good it feels to be in that elite category,

As someone who didn’t chase his dream or pursue his passions, but was pushed to be sensible, do sensible O levels, A levels and then dropped out of poly frankly for being in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, I’ve encouraged the kids to do what they love and have a talent for, and then just see how it plays out.

I’m typing this from my son’s room at Pembroke College, Cambridge, where he is today starting a degree in Music. Not bad for a lad from Ilkeston who went to the local (assessed as “needs improvement”) secondary school.

So let them try, as much as you can, whatever their passion. You never know where talent and commitment might take them.

On the basis there were 4 coaches for about 14 lads there wasn’t much actual “training” going on. I’m sure he got something out of training/playing with the other lads but there didn’t seem to be much direction from the coachs other than the setting up a of the drills/conditioned games.

FWIW I’ve heard that Liverpool run their academy training on that basis. The boys turn up, there are drills, etc, but they just “play” and are observed. Apparently Everton do it completely differently with far more structure.

Our middle kid plays for a team whose manager follows the FA “system” which works on the Liverpool basis. He moves all the boys around every position sequentially so they are multi-skilled. This is U9 level and it’s certainly interesting. They win some, they lose plenty. But the funny thing is, the lads don’t care.

@funkydunc drop me a message, I may be able to help your lad/you out
Have a contact who could help

My sister is a child psychologist and has recently started some consultancy work with Liverpool. Essentially she’s been brought in to help provide support for the young players who they let go. Obviously Liverpool are a massive club and this level of support won’t be available in many clubs I assume but it shows that there is an increasing recognition of the moral responsibility these clubs have towards these young peoples mental health and ability to cope with the issues that arise from not making it.

My cousin went to a PL club academy – he was one of those who didn’t make it (hardly anyone actually makes it). The only one he knew who made it was Ashley Young.
He wasn’t the academic type anyway but he still attended a normal school.
I think it’s crucial to either learn a trade or get an education at the success rates are so low.
He was offered the chance to go to a smaller club, but didn’t take it, I don’t know if he regrets it as over time his knees got worse anyhow so he would have probably had to retire early. A new manager came in towards the end who favoured big physical players so it’s all very random as to who makes it.
The other thing that is a big issue is gambling – lots of professional players use gambling to handle the pressure, loads of them end up losing the money they had earned as pros to the bookies.
So it’s right to be weary of the whole thing.

Just an update – so he was playing for a ‘premier league’ team for a period of 2 weeks.

We found the travelling too much. Pulling him out of school early and not getting home until 10:30pm 3 times per week. Not only that he would be eating crap food, and doing really intense 2hr sessions, then getting in to a car and driving 1.5hrs (not good for mind or body)

A more local club then approached us. Same 3 x 2 sessions a week with a game on the weekend.

Then without warning or reason that said they no longer wanted him in their academy.

He is now playing for another local very good development academy where the training intensity is much lower.

The academy experience has shown him what good looks like, and he is good enough, just a bit green around the edges given he has only been playing football 2 years

However the bad bits:

Academies do not treat the kids well. The intensity is ridiculous for an 11 yr old to the point you could see it damage some kids growth. There is no pastoral care. Might sound odd, but the kids spend most of their life there and the coaches don’t really interact with them. There appears to be no logic as to who stays, who goes. The whole approach to coaching just appeared quite backward. And it’s all or nothing there is an expectation even at aged 11 that you don’t miss a training session and football is more important than education

For now our lad is in a good place, a little less intense trying, he’s actually being coached, still getting exposure to playing at a high ish level

He’s already said he doesn’t want to go back into a full academy for at least a couple of years, maybe that means he won’t make it as a footballer, but he is now at least fully aware of what academy life means. Ie very limited ‘normal’ life or education

Both my kids have been picked up by local’ish teams.

Youngest was picked up by Sheff Utd who were then in the premiership when he was 7. An absolute farce of a setup. We stuck with it for about 6 weeks and then pulled him out of it – he hated it, was just absolutely loaded with ridiculously pushy parents living out their dreams of being a footballer through their kids and the coaching setup felt as if they just couldn’t be bothered.

Eldest got picked up by York City who we’d heard loads of good things about. Saw a LOT more impressive things from them but unfortunately couldn’t commit to it as they trained on an evening in Pudsey (we were in Halifax at the time) which even though its close as the crow flies, doing Halifax > Pudsey on a weekday evening at tea time isn’t something I’d wish on anyone. We’re actually living in York now so may keep an eye open for open trials.

They both play for their schools and U9/U12 teams now and are both loving their football which means more to me than anything else.

I’ve heard some good things about Man City’s academy but I guess their net is HUGE and so are the number of kids who get rejected but I believe they also insist on kids getting certain grades at school etc.

Academies do not treat the kids well. The intensity is ridiculous for an 11 yr old to the point you could see it damage some kids growth. There is no pastoral care. Might sound odd, but the kids spend most of their life there and the coaches don’t really interact with them. There appears to be no logic as to who stays, who goes. The whole approach to coaching just appeared quite backward. And it’s all or nothing there is an expectation even at aged 11 that you don’t miss a training session and football is more important than education

Pretty much my experience of the Sheff Utd setup. Coaches didn’t even know the kid’s names, never spoke to any of the parents etc.

Academies are there for one thing and one thing only – to find/create/develop young players and feed the club. It’s a business and the young players are a commodity. I would imagine safeguarding is pretty strict these days so I doubt the young players would ever be put in harms way, but that doesn’t mean they’ll get treated particularly well.

My two sons play U11 and U12 for a club that is about half way between grassroots and full academy, the club is working towards academy status. We see quite a few players who have been released by big clubs, they are incredibly talented but just didn’t make the cut even at that age. One day you are flying, the next you get a tap on the shoulder and are un-invited from the next session.

Neither of my two will ever be professional footballers but they love playing at a decent level, and love sport in general. The club they are at is building pathways to allow development not only towards a professional playing career but also surrounding professions (physio etc) as well as things like facilitating scholarships to US colleges. They are trying to build something that creates well rounded people, not just star footballers, which I think is admirable and the right thing to do.

In short, I think academies are changing for the better, but at the top level they will only ever look at this from a return on investment perspective and younger age groups will be where they filter out the players they want to invest in so you shouldn’t expect to be treated well.

At least you gave him the chance to have a go and that’s all that matters, other opportunities will come along if he’s good enough. Your experience of the Academy set up is very common but I have to say that ours has been largely a positive experience, my son has been at Exeter City since U9 (U12 now) so 4 years and we have no pressure to be at every session and education and home life is seen as a priority and if school work is dropping or not behaving then football stops. Players being released is all part of it and you should always go in with the mindset that the chances of playing professional football is slim so you just have to enjoy every moment. My son has just been put on a 6 week review to improve a couple of things otherwise he may not make U13s, if he doesn’t get kept on next year he will be upset for a bit but we have always been realistic and open so he knows the places he’s played at over the last four years some kids will never experience so he has great memories to take away. He will be happy anywhere just as long as he can play.

to find/create/develop young players and feed the club

I dont think they end up doing that, I think it actually puts some of the more naturally talented players off the game, however I do agree they are commodities.

My niece plays hockey at national level and she came along to one of the academy training sessions and was gobsmacked how the kids were treated and how it was certainly not coaching/boarder line even training. But as stated above its a numbers game at the younger ages they are not bothered about coaching just getting the numbers through.

My son is in a development squad, yes we pay for it, but its no more than the cost of his grass roots team. The coaches are coaching and quite often they have final year academy lads coaching them too, nothing better than having someone to aspire to. He is really enjoying it for now and wants to continue. He has even said if an academy offer him a position this next year he will probably turn it down.

Speaking to one of the coaches at a recent session, he said they are trying to give something other than football to these final year academy lads (18 yr olds). Chatting to me he said maybe one if they are lucky will get a pro contract, yet they have invested all their school years in football, not education so they have nothing to fall back on. They are at least trying to get them a coaching qualification.

Its a shame when a sport is not about talent and ability. (and thats not sour grapes on my part for my son, just sad that this country has developed a system that quite clearly isnt producing future players)

” just sad that this country has developed a system that quite clearly isnt producing future players”

Agreed.
Have watched many of my son’s friends get churned through and dumped by an academy system.
Very frustrating to see and it does them and the game no favours.
(A neighbour’s brother was a professional footballer and committed suicide when he had to quit the game through injury at 28. Even if they do make it as players there is little support for them after their career finishes).