McHamish – Member

perp of the parp…

McHamish wins the internet today

Maybe the goons have not yet been hired in your area?

Someone has taken a stand, in one area, and I’d bet they are prosecuting all these things. So you don’t have much to complain about other than the fact they are NOT doing it in your area.
That area being the North West of England, North Midlands and the top half of Wales, parts of the West Midlands and a fair bit of Oxfordshire and Bucks. Fair to say that the behaviours I mentioned are fairly well spread throughout the country. You could, of course, pick on another point to dispute, like the demand of enforcement officers to give ID for such a trivial crime.

I think a good lawyer would get you off if the portable seisometer to record your magnitude had not been calibrated at the start of the shift.Out of curiosity what do you reckon your parps would reach on the Richter scale

You must have permission from the landowner or occupier before you enter private land to issue FPNs.

Fair point however I’ve had a check and whilst it would appear that this the case generally for private land not so in the case of shops which are open to the public :

“Cllr David Smith, confirmed that 3GS officers are legally entitled to follow suspected offenders into shops.”

Overzealous? Private litter wardens ‘following people into shops’, council told

So… do they or don’t they have power to detain you?

If a police person was walking behind me and he could be sure I was the perp of the parp…could he fine me for unsociable behaviour?

Depends, if he challenged you on it, surely that would fall under the He Who Smelt it Dealt It Act of 1972?

On the question of detention, the answer is no, they cannot.

And Ernie, although local councillors and private security firms are generally acknowledged to be the ultimate arbiters of truth when it comes to the law, on this occasion the Home Office guidance makes it very clear you can’t enter private land without permission to issue an FPN, including land which is open to the public.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

do they or don’t they have power to detain you?

Well in this case it appears to be completely irrelevant since they knew exactly where he was and that he wouldn’t be going anywhere before the police arrived.

The answer is no btw, although according to an earlier post they do have the power to demand personal details.

matt_outandabout – Member

Yes you do *have* to give him details if he so requests them with reasonable reason.

Depends, if he challenged you on it, surely that would fall under the He Who Smelt it Dealt It Act of 1972?

HAHA

So… do they or don’t they have power to detain you?

If it was uncontrollable farting rather than spitting, would they want to detain you.

I hope McHamish isn’t following through on this issue.

I don’t know what this country is coming to if you can’t reach down into your trachea, awk up a bit lump of germ-ridden phlegm and gob it out onto the pavement. I blame Brexit. And political correctness.

Come to think of it, I can’t believe I’m not allowed to drop my keks and have a shit in the street either. It’s the nanny state gorn mad, it is.

I hope McHamish isn’t following through on this issue.

If he did, we’d have to bring in the big guns….

Dont be ridiculous There is No Smelt It Dealt It Act that is being silly, the man on Clapham Omnibus knows it is a matter of Common Law:

Depends, if he challenged you on it, surely that would fall under the He Who Smelt it Dealt It Act of 1972?

On the question of detention, the answer is no, they cannot.

I doubt they’d want to detain you, more likely move you along quicker before you dropped another one.

One of my mates work colleagues came to watch a test match at Old Trafford with us a few years back. I’d never met him before. We had been out the night before for a skin-full and a curry. I was on best farting form. The bloke played along for a bit, chuckling away, but as the day drew on he got less amused by being made to gag every 5-10 minutes. Eventually he threatened me with physical violence if I did it again!

I think the important principle of volenti non fart injuria still applies here.

Sorry I’ve only just seen this :

And Ernie, although local councillors and private security firms are generally acknowledged to be the ultimate arbiters of truth when it comes to the law, on this occasion the Home Office guidance makes it very clear…………..

To be fair the councillor never said that they had the legal power to issue FPNs in a shop, he just said that they had the legal power to follow suspected offenders into shops.

So I guess they could just follow them around the shop until they came out and then issue a FPN ! 🙂

To be fair the councillor never said that they had the legal power to issue FPNs in a shop, he just said that they had the legal power follow suspected offenders into shops.

It also says they’ll ask for permission off the security guards where possible.

Can they detain?

PCSOs

So I guess they could just follow them around the shop until they came out and then issue a FPN !

This is true. 😀

They are not PCSOs, Drac. PCSOs can detain you while they wait for a real policeman to show up (up to 30 minutes, I believe). This lot can’t, whatever uniform and badge they’ve got.

Although, I’ve seen green lumps of spit split open bags of dogshit on the ground and it is a bit gross to look at…I suppose you’re being fined for unsociable behaviour.

Except its increasing in frequency and nothing seems to be done to stop it.
Certainly I’m far more likely to have to quickly avoid yet another neatly tied plastic bag full of excrement just dumped on the pavement, often outside someone’s front door or gate, rather than a small glob of purest green.
Twice during my walk home from town this afternoon. Take the frakkin’ bag home and chuck it in your bloody dustbin, you miserable maggot! 👿

Certainly I’m far more likely to have to quickly avoid yet another neatly tied plastic bag full of excrement just dumped on the pavement, often outside someone’s front door or gate, rather than a small glob of purest green.

But probably not by Sainsbury’s entrance?

Jamie – Member

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Surely it doesnt matter as you’d provide them with an appropriately amusing GIF?

They are not PCSOs, Drac. PCSOs can detain you while they wait for a real policeman to show up (up to 30 minutes, I believe). This lot can’t, whatever uniform and badge they’ve got.

I know.

Wrexham council collects more fines for littering than parking

OAP fined for accidentally dropping receipt

The Council get ~11% of the money received; the enforcement company keeps the rest. Linky

There does not appear to be any leeway.

The body cameras seem to be for protection of the enforcers, rather than gathering evidence. I have heard (annecdotal, OK) that they don’t switch the cameras on until they confront someone.

I can’t disagree with the ends, but I don’t like the means…

That’s not what the gov.uk link posted earlier says. It says they have the authority to detain for up to 30 minutes. (I wasn’t aware PCSOs had this right?)

It says they have the authority to detain for up to 30 minutes. (I wasn’t aware PCSOs had this right?)

The link says PCSOs can detain. These guys are not PCSOs. They are private contractors working as ‘accredited’ agents for the local authority.

There are some very selfish, antisocial and ignorant forumites on this thread. 😯

tillydog – Member

Wrexham council collects more fines for littering than parking
“The aim is to keep Wrexham tidy”, it’ll take a bit more than fines for littering to make Wrecsam tidy. 😆

As a bus driver, i wish there were more officers clamping down on this, spitting, leaving dog shite on the pavement, etc.
I reckon most people would be amazed at the amount of bus passengers who think it’s absolutely fine to reek of piss and shit, and cough up a greenie, then wipe their mouth with a bare hand then reach into the pocket of their 3 yr old unwashed trousers and pull out a tenner to pay for their fare.
**** disgusting.

Btw, im not suggesting any of the above applies in the op’s case, apart from the bit he’s told us about.
£80 is maybe a bit much, but im of the opinion this behaviour needs tackling.

Gross behavior and the fine will hopefully make him think before hacking up on the pavement again. I can’t even imagine being detained by a rent-a-cop though. I’d just laugh and walk off. That or give my name as John Smith from 123 fake street and then walk off. I’d love to see how they’d hold on to me for half an hour.

Tempted to go out and drop some litter near a rent-a-cop now just to see what happens. See what this place does to a man? Turning me in to a potential criminal just to find an answer to a question I didn’t even consider ten minutes ago.

Gross behavior

(and many other similar comments)

FFS, the man was ill. Gratuitously gozzing up on the pavement, I’d be right with you. Being full of a cold and ejecting some lung butter behind a bin out of the way of anything, not so much. (And as for ‘spit in the bin,’ who wants to empty a bin sloshing about with mucus?) It’ll be gone the first time it rains. Would you fine him £80 for throwing up?

Why all this talk of throwing up? The guy just had a cold, and had a bit more lumpy liquid as a result. Many ways to dispose of it other than on the pavement.

Down a drain.
In the toilet.
In a bush.
In a tissue.

Fun story. I once was behind a taxi as a guy jumped out the back and sharted into a bush. He was obviously not very well, so I would be all for waiving any penalties there. As he literally had no choice….well, could have pooped in the taxi I guess.

Or, on the road, rather than the pavement . .

I can’t recall any situation when, having a cold, I’ve felt the urge to get rid of it behind the bins. I agree with martymac and I’d include chewing gum and fag ends. Well, all litter actually. In the stocks with ’em.

He was that Ill he was at work, maybe he could of bought some hankies from Sainsburys.

Bloke from work got fined £80 by MCC for dropping a cigarette butt on the pavement outside the office

Fair enough I say

he’s got a bit of a cough/cold

I’ve had hundreds of colds and have never felt the need to spit in the street.

As was that he was diabetic and need to go for his lunch.

Once again… I know many diabetic people who manage their illness in such a way that they don’t need to walk off mid-conversation.

he’s a well mannered decent bloke

Well that’s odd – because he sounds like a complete cheb-end who has an excuse for everything.

He shouldn’t have spat in the street. It’s absolutely **** disgusting.

So;

An accredited person can ask you for your name and address.

It is an offence to not give it to them.

They have no powers to detain you (apart from PCSO’s who can detain you for 30mins to wait for a propper-copper).

It is an offence for an accredited person to say or act like they have powers they do not.

Hmmm… I can understand why they followed him back to where he probably worked.

Anyhow, Gentlemen carry handkerchiefs, clearly this was a simple misunderstanding and he’d already given it to a lady to ‘grolly up’ in?

An accredited person can ask you for your name and address.

It is an offence to not give it to them.

What can they do if you don’t give it to them? Who do they prosecute for said offence if they don’t know who you are? Do they just follow you around Benny Hill style?

I dobbed myself in to the police a few months back following an altercation with a driver. The officer I spoke to admitted they would never have found me if I hadn’t contacted them. What chance would a Sainsburys rent-a-cop have?

Sainsburys rent-a-cop

But they’re not……

reek of piss and shit, and cough up a greenie, then wipe their mouth with a bare hand then reach into the pocket of their 3 yr old unwashed trousers and pull out a tenner to pay for their fare.

Oh c’mon on cough up (pun intended), which one if you is this? 😀

They’d have a field day round West Yorkshire.

It seems to be a young chav of any ethnicity/old Asian man thing to do these days.

Several times been in different taxis driven by Asian chaps and they lower window to spit out of the door multiple times whilst I’m in it. It’s beautiful.