Faster Bike is Faster – no shocker

I used my road bike on my commute yesterday for the first time.  Unsurprisingly it was faster than my gravel bike.  5 mins over the first 40 mins (few traffic lights) no faster on second 45 mins (lots of traffic lights)

Cube Peloton v Arkose

Road bike has 28mm tyres and Arkose has 38mm.  Road bike uncomfortable but very stiff and responsive Arkose sluggish and relaxed in comparison.

Is there a n+1 that could combine the comfort of the Arkose with the speed of the Cube?  If not what is the cheapest way to improve the Arkose performance (rider upgrade not possible).

Finally the Cube is a bit garish – how can I tone it down a bit?

Looks like this but I have added black handlebar tape.

https://images.app.goo.gl/QZQo26K2bXpjjK5B9

thanks

How much do you want to spend on the Arkose? Lighter wheels would be the biggest difference, offset a little by selling the old ones. Look second hand.

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Free way to make the cube a little less garish is to remove the wheel stickers. I wish frame makers wouldn’t put the decals underneath the lacquer. Three of mine have no decals and they definitely look a lot better than the others. I’ve destickered all my forks and wheels, apart from the wheels on the TT bike because of the same stupid lacquer thing.

how can I tone it down a bit?

Don’t know  much about the Cube but probably hard to make it much comfier unless you can fit bigger volume tyres on it. Might get a bit less vibration with carbon bars and seat post but it’s small gains.

Arkose looks like an alloy gravel bike with mostly lower end parts on it. Biggest gain (assuming heavy wheels) is a nice light set of wheels and faster rolling tyres if you have gravel ones on there. Hunt 4seasons wheels are what I have on my road bike / gravel bike mash up – think they’re meant to be 1550g for the pair and I’m running 30c gp5000 tyres on there. Roll along really quite fast. Think they do a 35c version of those tyres which could be a balance between speed and volume?

That’s a hell of a commute.

Is the Arkose 1* or 2*?

The thing that slows me down are the mudguards, rack and bags that I have on my Arkose for commuting.

Not a lot of route info, but to make Arkose quicker…

Performance tyres like Gp5000s, front one smooth transition from wheel rim.

Lower the bars, all spacers above stem, stem -ve flipped.

Adjustable stem to aggressively lower bars.

Longer stem to stretch you out a bit more and make you more aero.

Narrower bars, approx 38cm across hoods.

Semi aero deep wheels, but then talking relatively silly money!

TT bar extensions to use on sections you feel safe.

Etc.

No mention of speed… E-bike? Lol

Thanks all.  It is the early generation Arkose.  I think a 4, Bright Orange.  Alloy frame carbon fork.

I have a Dawes Galaxy and Genesis Vagabond for mudguards and rack duties.

It take 1hr 30 (ish) to do 19 miles so not that far but plenty of traffic lights. I can’t / don’t do it everyday.

The Cube has lots of cracks in the frame which I assume is the lacquer, can i strip that off to get to the stickers? Do I need to re lacquer for anything other than cosmetic reasons?

I have an Arkose with two sets of wheels, gravel and road. Road wheels/tyres should make your Arkose as quick as your road bike.
Handling characteristics aside, it’s only really rolling resistance and aerodynamics that are making the road bike faster.

Sorry routes details would have been helpful!  Very urban through SW London Boroughs, all tarmac, roads and cyclepaths, plenty of potholes, kerbs, glass, grit etc

@jaminb – I’d be wary of cracks – you could check if it’s just lacquer or actual frame cracks by lightly sanding it back.

Is the comfort (or lack of) due to it bouncing off bumps etc or the actual position on the bike?

I had a Caad 12 Cannondale that I commuted on for years, but my lower back was playing up and it was a bit harsh over broken roads. Switched to a carbon gravel frame and both my back is happier and the broken roads are less bad. I think I could have gone bigger than 30c on tyres without materially losing a huge amount of speed. I’m still cracking out some decent Strava times on my commute despite higher tyres / less racy position on the bike / being a few years older.

And position too, is your road position more efficient/aero?

The Cube has lots of cracks in the frame which I assume is the lacquer, can i strip that off to get to the stickers? Do I need to re lacquer for anything other than cosmetic reasons?

Yep, lacquer is pretty much just cosmetic, maybe an element of UV protection but certainly not structural. Head over the weightweenies site for info on how to sand that off and return to bare carbon. They’re doing it to knock another 20g off a frame rather than for cosmetic reasons but the process is the same

Handling characteristics aside, it’s only really rolling resistance and aerodynamics that are making the road bike faster.

Yep. Tyres can make a massive diffeence. My rigid MTB has 2.1 Mezcals on it which while fast on gravel they are not fast at all on road. The position is fairly similar to my road bike as it is a 1996 mountain bike (long stem, low front etc,.) so most of the speed difference will be the tyres.
I rode it around one of my short road loops of just 10 miles and it was around 8 minutes slower with similar effort which was surprising to me as didn’t;t think it would be that much.

The biggest probably is probably position and aero. Put a longer stem on the Arkose. Fast tires will help. If weight was an issue i think the traffic light section would have seen more difference

Frame flex and wheel weight aren’t huge speed factors

I have a peloton exactly like that one, it was toned down considerably by getting some normal wheels on it, ones which didn’t have white spokes.

5 minutes over 85 minutes – I wouldn’t worry.

Or just admit you just want another bike

I would get a bike you can commute in more often. I was doing a 40 mile round trip 2-3 times a week. Bought a Ti charge plug, it was awesome. Actually like the cliche magic carpet ride- 42mm tyres and ti and SRAM rival 1*11 which was silent. Had my fastest time on my road bike which is a not too fancy but not bad Vitus, knocking ten mins off at just under the hour, flat out, tail wind and the lights all in my favour and the legs were up for it, hobbled home of course. Ended up getting a fully mud guarded and racked ebike. Still flat out on the flats but it dragged me home head wind or not. Did this 4 times a week, lost loads of weight and fitness went skyward. It also meant I could enjoy a Sunday ride not feeling too battered. Ebike riding also stops you racing in, taking daft chances and calms you down a bit, which in traffic is a good thing.
If you don’t fancy the ebike thing- stick the fatest GPS 5000 you can on the fast bike with latex tubes, real world difference for not stupid money. Maybe get a fancy seat post with extra flex in it, and thick bar tape, or just chill and take the comfy bike also with the GPS tyres and latex.

If you put a smaller wheel on the front, it’ll mean you’re riding downhill all the time.

I’d go faster tires and lighter wheels on the gravel bike.

If my back could take it a lower more aero position at the front.

I have an alloy and carbon Cannondale synapse. On similar 25c tires the rise is very similar. The carbon one has 30c tires on it now and that makes a noticeable amount of difference to comfort. I had a bike fit at a a race focused shop. The fit massively dropped the bar height and told me I needed narrower bars. While that set up is faster ( a few min over 4 hour rides) I’m not prepared to trade comfort for speed as my road riding is mostly pretty relaxed tootling about.

Dont touch the paint on the frame it will not end well. Its not that garish! You could desticker the wheels?

You want to make the Arkose faster- why not the Cube comfier? Will bigger tyres fit? Gel pads under the bar tape is a cheap option.

Tyres are the biggest bang for buck, I wouldn’t commute on GP5000’s though. Some 30-32mm slicks like Roubaixs will roll a lot quicker, than your current tyres whilst still being puncture proof. Set up tubeless they are wide enough to have low enough pressure to seal and keep riding.

Is the issue that one bike  is described as a gravel bike, therefore straight away that will make it slower, as it’s filling a marketing niche . Then there is your obligatory beared and baggies whilst riding the gravel bike that make it slower. Flared handlebars too?

I have a similar commute in London 12 or 17 miles each way depending on which office I’m in that day. There’s 5-10mins difference between using my gravel bike with road wheels and my bullet proof ‘commuter’. The road wheels are also faster and less effort than running the 40mm gravel set up (unsurprisingly).

30mm Gp5000 and Pro One on road wheels set up tubeless.

Since putting a quick rack on the gravel bike, the pannier makes little difference to time or perceived effort.

Not sure the aero gains mean much but spinning up lighter wheels between the lights makes a big difference. I rarely ride my commuter anymore.

Thanks everyone for the input.  Decisions Decisions

some faster tyres on the gravel bike and thus eliminating any gravel riding on this bike or

fatter tyres on the road bike losing some of the absolute speed and responsiveness.

If you just want to buy a new bike, buy a new bike.

As above, 5 minutes over 85 minutes could be entirely accountd for by wind, different traffic light timing, how much you ate for lunch etc.

And it will be accounted for many, many times over if you get a flat/smash a wheel through a pothole/skid out on a wet drain cover on the racier bike.

Why not buy a spare pair of lighter / narrower rimmed wheels for the gravel bike to keep road tyres on – and keep your existing wheels with gravel tyres on for gravel rides?

That’s assuming you can’t get bigger volume tyres on your road bike which may solve the comfort on that bike.

Sorry to hijack but i was about to make a similar thread and wanted a similar opinion

Speed on my commute 10 miles in order fastest to slowest :

Nukeproof digger RS – 45mm Schwalbe G-one

Vitus Mach 3 VR – flat bar, 2×8, aftermarket wheels and tyres – 1700g wheels, gravelking ss

Boardman ADV 8.9E – ebike, heavy, lifeless

E bike is the slowest as typically i’m riding beyond the motor, it’s for sale

I’m wondering if i sell the Boardman and Vitus, and get a sensible light set of wheels and tyres, and put them on the digger (maybe a 10t cassette too) if it would make a significant difference, for road rides/commutes, i’m not talking all out road race wheels and tyres, something that can hit a gravel track, and not puncture all the time (gravelkings i’m looking at you)

OR, put drop bars on the Vitus and more suited tyres, full guards etc, and keep that (original plan), as im convinced drop bars are quicker

I’m trying to talk myself out of looking at fast allroad carbon bikes that i don’t need and can’t afford

Tyres make a big difference. Studded tyres on my commuter and I can be upto 10 minutes slower over 10 miles, but also air temperature and weather. My CX bike is over 5 minutes quicker than my fastest commute on the slick tyres on the commuter. I no doubt my road bikes will be even quicker.

Commuting you need reliable – e.g. tyres – bear in mind puncture protection if it’s urban – lots of glass on my commute in places.  I used to cut up Conti GP 4 Seasons, moved to Durano Plus for a while. On a different bike now though.

fatter tyres on the road bike losing some of the absolute speed and responsiveness.

Larger decent/excellent tyres, run tubelessly will “allow” extra comfort, better puncture resistance with a negligible reduction in speed or responsiveness. (Or you can get smaller tyres on the gravel bike.)

I’m running 32s on my new road bike and it’s negligible between that and the 23mm tubs or 25mm cotton clinchers/latex tubes i’m running on my other bike.

Those Cube Peloton are a few years old now, not sure what clearance they have with regard to tyres set up on wider tubeless rims…you might find you’re limited to 25mm, or maybe 28mm at a squeeze.

Who knows how this cropped up on my work computer but quite relevant

https://youtu.be/FVxqoxYdPKk?si=a4aojl446TE3mLZY

My wife has an Akrose gravel bike, budget road wheels for it (Cero AR30, 30mm deep, 28mm GP 5000), and a nice SL7 ‘summer’ road bike, so we have a somewhat direct comparison.

Wheels/tyres account for most of the speed difference, which for her is around (very roughly, non scientific) 2.5mph from gravel to road and 1.5-2mph gravel to gravel with road wheels.

She says the gravel bike is far comfier geometry, and the road bike feels faster than the numbers as it’s a more energetic, shall we say, ride.

First of all you could stick your 28’s on the Akrose and see how that feels.  Then I’d be tempted to get some 32mm GP 5000 (possibly in AS TR flavour for communing) and a set of mid depth wheels if budget allows.

Does it matter if you commuter bike is garish?

As others have said, bigger tyres on the road bike is the obvious route to more comfort but keeping most of the speed.

I’ve done a 28-mile round trip commute for a long time, measured via watch / Strava since 2018.  I tend to do it 2-3 times per week and swap between a gravel / light touring bike and a more focused road bike.  So I have a good basis for knowing which is quicker.

Both are running nice wheels and similar Ultegra-Dura Ace parts, though the road bike has 25mm tyres, 50mm aero wheels and weighs 2kg less – whereas the other bike has 32/35mm tyres and muduards.  Neither is built for maximum speed or lowest weight; they’re nice steelies and have quite different geometry.

The road bike is consistently quicker, but it’s only really noticeable uphill.   The rest of the advantages come down to the condition of the road, wind and temperature.

But as for comfort… undoubtedly it’s the gravel / tourer that wins.  The longer wheelbase helps as much as tyres in my view, and it’s definitely the bike you’d want to ride if the roads were broken-up or unfamiliar.

I’ve tried 650b 47c and while it’s great for control on another urban bike I have, it’s definitely a slower format for once the roads open up.

Does it matter if you commuter bike is garish?

Depends on whether you think it’s fun to startle pedestrians or not.