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Listening to Coulthard I didn’t realise Horner was running a4 car team. What does the alpha tauri team head do all year apart from whatever Horner tells him to
Why, yet again was Bottas pottering round in 11 Ty for so long? He made a lousy start and then didn’t seem interested in doing anything about it until toto gave him the hurry up
Some opprobrium for Christian Horner here
He undid all of that later though: (from the BBC)
In the news conference he called to issue this apology, it was pointed out to him that in recent days he had accused Wolff of buckling under the pressure, criticised FIA officials, and effectively accused Mercedes of cheating. Did he have any regrets about the way he had conducted himself, he was asked?
"No not at all," he said. "I believe in my team. I am a straight-talker. I have always conducted myself in that manner. I am not an overly emotional person. I don't rant to cameras.
"I think the way I've conducted myself, I've got no issues with. I'd do exactly the same [again]. The only issue regarding any marshal, was if there was any personal offence taken for referencing a rogue yellow flag; [it] was not intended at any individual.
"I don't know whether you heard the interview I gave this morning, but I don't think it was unreasonable."
So basically a non-apology apology. If you read between the lines about the rogue marshall comment not being targeted at an individual he's actually tarring them all with the same brush. The man doesn't know when to stop digging does he 🤣
chrismac
Full Member
Why, yet again was Bottas pottering round in 11 Ty for so long? He made a lousy start and then didn’t seem interested in doing anything about it until toto gave him the hurry up
Yes it was very bottas. To be kind maybe the plan was to tyre save to go long.
On McLaren, Danny ric said they had some kind of problem which meant they spent the whole race fuel saving. Not sure if that was just him or both cars.
Horner using the past exonerative in his apology:
"Some comments were made, I think in our interview earlier..."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/past_exonerative
This is what happens when you put top drivers into midfield cars.
https://twitter.com/MattyWTF1/status/1462444448701460482
Mixed emotions from that race.
Good for Lewis as he caught up a bit in the drivers champ.
Not happy Red Bull had such a successful damage limitation attempt and caught up in the constructors champ.
Still bemused at Bottas’ lack of pace and what seemed like a lacklustre drive.
It’s very honourable that Merc are keeping Bottas till the end of the season but he’s not really doing a great job for the team. Just fake a positive COVID test for him so he has to isolate and put George in the Merc last few races to help cement that constructors and be more of a barricade for any Red Bulls trying to overtake.
100% agree with replacing bottas. He's no use to merc at the moment. Possibly worse than that too.
Sometimes it's hard to tell how much it is Bottas being off the pace and how much it is Hamilton driving the wheels off his Merc, but Bottas definitely seem to come alive a bit more after the first third of the race. He was actually doing ok when he had the puncture, looking at 4th place.
I have no issue with team orders within the same team, it makes total sense, but it really annoyed me when Coulthard was suggesting that Alpha should/would also act as part of the Red Bull team.
100% agree with replacing bottas. He’s no use to merc at the moment. Possibly worse than that too.
Apart from being 3rd in the drivers championship, one of the few outside of Hamilton and Verstappen to have won a race, and contributing over 200 points to Mercedes constructors point haul... 4 poles, 4 fastest laps, 10 podium spots...Yeah, of absolutely no use.
The continued slating that Bottas gets on here baffles me, it really does.
The continued slating that Bottas gets on here baffles me, it really does.
I felt very sorry for him - once he got into the swing of things yesterday he was driving well, had made up lots of places and was on course for a podium. Merc screwed up leaving him out there for so long.
The punctures livened up what was otherwise a rather dull race. I turned off for about 25 laps in the middle, came back and everything was virtually identical...
I have no issue with team orders within the same team, it makes total sense, but it really annoyed me when Coulthard was suggesting that Alpha should/would also act as part of the Red Bull team
Absolutely agree with this. I hope it's Coulthard that gets Covid and can't attend the next two races to be honest.
"but it really annoyed me when Coulthard..."
Thats all you needed to write. I'm amazed he's still got the gig with C4 given how biased his commentary is.
He, Horner and Verstappen are made for each other, if F1 is a big marketing exercise they've turned me off Red Bull drinks for life.
Really hope Hamilton grabs both the next wins by doing all they legally can to blow away the competition, Merc win the constructors, and the whining and whinging from RB can be put to bed until next season.
I have no issue with team orders within the same team, it makes total sense, but it really annoyed me when Coulthard was suggesting that Alpha should/would also act as part of the Red Bull team.
This with shiny bells on. Marko was stood next to Tost on the grid, arms folded eyeballing him before the race, could have been perfectly innocent but the cynic in me couldn’t help but think otherwise.
Thats all you needed to write. I’m amazed he’s still got the gig with C4 given how biased his commentary is.
It's his production company that supplies C4 with the highlight package! 🙂
It’s his production company that supplies C4 with the highlight package! 🙂
Aaaahhhhhh.
The penny has dropped 😉
He's still a nob.
Marko covering the team in more glory.... 🙄
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-fia-criticism-max-verstappen-penalty/
I watched a clip yesterday (can't recall where) of Coultard jumping in with 'MV should be WDC this year for the good of F1, he deserves it etc'.
He (Coultard) really has become a grade A prick. I used to quite like his commentary but now just see it as completely biased white noise rather than Brundle's more incisive/informative stuff.
Yep Coulthard did lose me when he defended Horner's criticism of the marshall. To use his own phrase, that was a slam dunk penalty and going after the marshall, who as it turns out was doing the right thing, is not ok
In many ways I hope that LH wins this year and next, GR takes his crown in '23 and MV never gets to claim the WDC.
The whole charade around Red Bull being the little team that can, and standing up to the manufacturers like Merc is just getting tiring. It'll be very interesting what happens to RBR when Newey decides to hang up his protractor and set-square or Mateschitz finds another plaything for his cubic billions.
If there's a yellow flag, you slow down. Verstappen had a yellow flag, didn't slow down. It's about as ambiguous as Kimi Raikkonen explaining how to use a light switch
I watched a clip yesterday (can’t recall where) of Coultard jumping in with ‘MV should be WDC this year for the good of F1, he deserves it etc’.
I don't necessarily disagree that Verstappen has taken the fight to the Mercedes team this year and it's made for a great season, and I think he has what it takes to be a world champion; he's clearly a superb driver. The off-stage bun fights are just a side show really though, and all it does is reveal how high stakes it all is (as if we didn't know) I can forgive folks for being partisan
I can forgive folks for being partisan
Yeah but not really the commentary team. It just gets so tiring... 🙄
Agreed, the senior Red Bull management team are ruining it for me, I do wish they'd stop trying to score points with incessant whinging.
I'm relatively ambivalent about who winds the WDC this year, but Horner et al are starting to get on my nerves.
The continued slating that Bottas gets on here baffles me, it really does.
I think he mainly gets criticised for being 'not as good as (probably) the greatest ever' It's a big ask of anyone!
.
.
On another note, I always like to watch the background of the interviews. Going round on the truck before the race, you can see everyone not being interviewed chatting with their mates, Russell, Norris and Sainz, Vettel and Raikonen, etc. The camera angle changed for Gasly's interview and there's poor old Mazapin stood on his own playing with his phone. I know he has a dodgy reputation but are the others all shunning him completely?
He (Coultard) really has become a grade A prick. I used to quite like his commentary but now just see it as completely biased white noise rather than Brundle’s more incisive/informative stuff.
This +1. I used to enjoy the C4 coverage but now skip a lot off the fluff before and after the race as it'll just be some biased nonsense.
One of the other (unnamed) team principles referred to Horner's claims about Mercedes "not physically possible" speed advantage in Brazil as "just the usual Reb Bull bullshit" 😁
When you look at just how fast Mercedes 2020 car was compared to RB (even at the end of the season where Mercedes turned the engine down to prevent a DNF, it was still competitive) and how much they lost this year. LH at the start of the season said they'd had to apply so much additional aerodownforce (drag) to get it to behave, that it was MUCH slower than last year. Come the end of the year, Mercedes understand the car better, have been able to get that required downforce from the package rather than increasing the wing size/drag and lo and behold, they're fast again.
I really do hope that Mercedes have just placed a bit of grit into the rear wing to cause the "fretting" that RB are focussing on, when in reality, it's either the package as a whole of they have something else that RB can't see. I like the idea of Horner fretting about Mercedes wing fretting.
Coulthard trotted out his usual "just let them race" line several times, yesterday.
Curious to see how long he'll stick to this, if Max ends up on the receiving end...
Toto's offer to send Red Bull a wing to examine is classic Toto and a load of hot-air too. 🙂
If Red Bull did find anything they could copy it's too late to do so now. And next years rear wing and whole aero concept is massively different so would have no relevance.
Bottas under performance complaints are only semi-valid as a few have pointed out but there are definite examples where he seems to fail to perform as you would expect, especially when letting everyone drive around and overtake him as if he is on a Sunday afternoon sightseeinbg ride rather than a race.
He is unfortunate in being compared to Hamilton tough.
Anyone remember Eddy Irvine during the Shoemaker days?
He was asked why he wasn't competative once and his answer was something like "Michael is faster and a better than me but I console myself with the yacht and the babes - something along those lines anyway
Curious to see how long he’ll stick to this, if Max ends up on the receiving end…
I seem to recall he was a little less ambivalent at Silverstone…?
Anyone remember Eddy Irvine during the Shoemaker days?
Thing is, I’m sure I recall a race at Suzuka where it was oddly enthralling watching Irvine drive a masterful strategic race to hold cars behind him and allow Schumacher to romp off ahead. Not exactly what we’ve seen from Bottas. He’s damn fast over a lap on his day but he’s always had tiny elbows…
He’s damn fast over a lap on his day but he’s always had tiny elbows…
Kind of the opposite of Perez, qualifies well but often struggles to come back through the field when he has to.
Checo is usually the master of a recovery drive, but should mostly never have been that far back in the first place.
Kind of the opposite of Perez
Yes, if you could take Bottas's qualifying performances and Perez's race performances, you'd have a pretty decent driver.
Toto’s offer to send Red Bull a wing to examine is classic Toto and a load of hot-air too
It would be very funny if Merc could somehow acquire an actual genuine RB wing, paint it up in Merc colours and send it to RB for analysis. Then wait to see how much RB complained about anomalies and illegalities.
Then point out they're talking about their own wing.
Yes, if you could take Bottas’s qualifying performances and Perez’s race performances, you’d have
a pretty decent driver.Lando Norris or George Russell
Yes, if you could take Bottas’s qualifying performances and Perez’s race performances, you’d have a pretty decent driver.
You definitely would! I suppose at that point you'd have a Hamilton or a Verstappen.
Being fair to bottas I didn't see many people defending a drs pass into turn 1, so it was a big ask for anyone to hold up a faster car. So I'll excuse him for yesterday, but there's still plenty of other races where he's hardly even tried to play the tactical defensive role.
Being fair to bottas I didn’t see many people defending a drs pass into turn 1
Yes, but he had the quickest car! And for whatever reason it took a slightly pissed sounding Toto on the radio before he pulled his finger out and started overtaking. But he was ultimate unlucky and retired through no fault of his own.
But he lost 5 or 6 places off the start line!
What was the reason for Bottas' retirement? Was this problem the reason he couldn't move further up after his pit stop for the puncture?
But he lost 5 or 6 places off the start line!
To be fair part of that is the tyres- he was on mediums, surrounded by softs, therefore everyone was quicker than him at the start before slowing down later on so his overtakes were easier. The emphasis is on the word 'part' tho, as the other part is his driving- and when the front end of the grid is filled with exceptional drivers who can find a way to drive around these deficits you realise that Bottas is a really good driver, but not a great driver. Shame, but he's had his chance to shine (and to be fair there's been a couple drives where he has) but in all fairness he's probably heading in the right direction in terms of team, and we can now start looking forward to seeing what George Russell can do
I get in his first stint he was trying to go easy on the tyres as he was 1 stopping. So his slow movement up the order is understandable.
But I think after the puncture he should have been in "beast mode" to regain as many points as he could.
I far as know he wasn't moving up after the puncture for many laps and then retired. Wondering if he had an issue related to the retirement or if he just didn't;t have the pace.
What was the reason for Bottas’ retirement? Was this problem the reason he couldn’t move further up after his pit stop for the puncture?
This is a great question. As the Sky Sports commentary pointed out- they could have used him to deny Verstappen the point for fastest lap. Maybe the floor was damaged?
Reason for retirement...
Bottas was weak early in the race. A bad start and then far too many laps going no where just following slower cars. Even when he has drs he wasn’t passing people which given he is in a far superior car to those he was racing is not good.
I suppose at that point you’d have a Hamilton or a Verstappen.
Not really: Hamilton and Verstappen both comfortably out-qualify and out-race both Bottas and Perez on the majority of occasions, and especially when the pressure’s on.
To be fair part of that is the tyres- he was on mediums, surrounded by softs, therefore everyone was quicker than him at the start
Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…
I can forgive folks for being partisan
Yeah but not really the commentary team. It just gets so tiring… 🙄
Have you watched any sport in telly? Show an England shirt and a round ball and it's all 1966. Put jiffy in the commentary box and you'd be forgiven for not realising there were two teams on the pitch. He drove for RB for a good while and is still associated with them, probably has friends there. They may be his team but he does give credit where it's due.
Bez
Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…
True but Hamilton was on the grippy side of the grid. In the replays of Bottas start, I noticed his dash was saying "TOO LOW!" not sure if that was the engine RPM or what though...
eta: 1:34 in this
It'll be interesting to see how he handles the mid-field battles next season.
This is a great question. As the Sky Sports commentary pointed out- they could have used him to deny Verstappen the point for fastest lap.
Only if he got far enough forward to finish in the top 10 including the stop needed to throw on a set of softs...
He drove for RB for a good while and is still associated with them
AFAIK, still paid by them as some sort of Brand Ambassador boleaux. I understand people getting a bit carried away when the National team (of whatever sport) are up against their perceived nemesis but DC drove for a number of teams and you don't hear him making excuses for e.g. McLaren do you?
His commentary is verging on a partisan advertorial at times and I don't want to hear it. When he and Webber both jumped on Hammy after the Silverstone incident, that was me done. I just happened on DC doing it again yesterday by chance. If I was Hammy, I'd be very economical with the time I gave those two now.
I think Bottas is a great driver but not a racer, same with Stoner in MotoGp, an amazing technician but not a racer. Hamilton and Verstappen are both as is Alonso and a few others.
Only if he got far enough forward to finish in the top 10 including the stop needed to throw on a set of softs…
Nope, it would still have taken the point from Verstappen and RB, it just wouldn’t have then also added it to Bottas or Mercedes.
Not really: Hamilton and Verstappen both comfortably out-qualify and out-race both Bottas and Perez on the majority of occasions, and especially when the pressure’s on.
Yes, exactly. The best of Bottas and Perez would be a pretty good driver, but still short of Hamilton or Versappen (and Alonso, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, etc.) They just don't have the relentlessness of the greats, just always wringing the absolute maximum out of the car on every lap. I find Verstappen's personality easy to dislike, but his ability behind the wheel is astonishing. Same with Hamilton and Alonso, they just find some way to grab a car by the scruff of its neck and wring lap times out of it. Bottas and Perez never showed that. They're goth very good drivers, just a step below the greats.
I did notice that during one of the Mercedes stops: RB had positioned some lucky mechanic as a human traffic cone on the corner of their pit box 🙂
Commentators do have their favourites. Murray Walker was very close to Damon Hill for example and James Hunt really didn't like Patrese.
The Hunt/Patrese thing was really obvious in the commentary, Murray was a little more restrained but we all remember when Hill finally won the title, he was really pleased for him.
Still a bit different to making excuses for them all the time though.
ITV were also massively pro Hamilton for a while, I recall James Allen took a lot of flack it despite it being an editorial decision.
There seems to be a lot of open comment on red bulls general conduct at the moment, more so than in previous years when horner was whining about Renault or whatever. I expect Matteschitz will be keeping an eye on his brand and won't want f1 negativity to affect his sales of caffeinated sugar, so it'll be interesting to see what happens if (when!) there's another controversy.
Nope, it would still have taken the point from Verstappen and RB, it just wouldn’t have then also added it to Bottas or Mercedes
We may be talking at cross-purposes, but what I meant was you have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point....if not, I assume it goes to the next fastest?
We may be talking at cross-purposes, but what I meant was you have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point….if not, I assume it goes to the next fastest?
No.
The fastest lap gets the point if they are in the top 10. If they are not in the top ten, no-one gets it. (see Mazapinn's fastest lap in Belgium!)
But it's better to get FL and stop your opponent having it is the point, even if you don't get a point yourself.
Did not know that.. Every day's a schoolday! Ta 😁
As F1 fans no doubt you lot love a good stat.
the STW 2020 thread topped out at 48 pages. With 2 races to go this thread is on 84. Can we double to the 2020 total?
You want me to flood this thread with spam?
😉
No need, every time Horner has a moan there’s 2 new pages of people moaning about him moaning
Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…
You're remaking the same point I had already made here, so not sure what you're getting at but I'll take that as a complement of sorts I guess!
If Lewis wins and gets fastest lap in SA, and Max is second, they both go into the final race on 369.5 points with Lewis on 8 wins and Max on 9, else Lewis could be a point down if someone other than Max gets fastest lap, or two points down in Max gets fastest lap.
So, if Lewis is two points down after SA but he wins AD they'll both be on 9 wins and if Max only finishes third, they'll both have same number of points and if neither get fastest lap....
What happens next??
(Assuming I've got my sums correct)
If Lewis is 2 points behind going into the last race and wins with max 2nd they get 25 & 18 respectively so +7 to LH. So he ends up +5. Even if MV gets fastest lap that’s only 1 more point.
Yeah, that's straight forward, but I'm curious as to whether VB can do what he's paid to do and take some points from MV, and MV only finishes third (in either race, I guess).
I'm assuming some boffin, somewhere has a spreadsheet of all possible outcomes...
You’re remaking the same point I had already made
Ok, now I re-read it, fair enough. It was a bit ambivalent, I read one half more than the other 🙂
What happens next??
I think Billy Monger made an astute comment. In Lewis’s head at least, it’s very simple: he wins the next three races and he’s world champion. One down…
Probably best just see what Saudi brings first and then figure out the permutations…
Did anyone else notice both Redbull and Mercedes have stopped pulling back their pneumatic lines for each other during the pit stops?
What's the position in the final race if Max takes out LH in Saudi?
Can LH still win if it is him 1st and MV 2nd or does Max get the WDC?
I am sure that isn't a strategy on their computers right now, at least not on the shared drive
bluearsedfly
Free Member
Did anyone else notice both Redbull and Mercedes have stopped pulling back their pneumatic lines for each other during the pit stops?
There's an echo in here... Yes, about 6 posts up there ^ 🙃
Someone pointed that out somewhere up thread.
Next step is Red Bull are going to paint some black and white stripes across pitlane and employ a mechanic with a baby stroller to wander back and forth across pitlane when one of the Mercs tries to leave the pitstop 😁😁
Can LH still win if it is him 1st and MV 2nd or does Max get the WDC?
If they both DNF in Saudi then even if he gets fastest lap, Hamilton will need Verstappen to be third or lower in Abu Dhabi.
Hamilton really needs to win both remaining races. If he doesn’t, he’d need something pretty extraordinary and beyond his control to keep Max down.
Ah, late to the party as usual 🙂
I make it if Lewis wins the next race with fastest lap, he will be equal on points with Max going into the last race.
Max can nerf them both at turn one and win the WDC on number of wins.
*Edit* actually they’d both be on 8 wins I think going into the last race.
Thanks.
Bluearsed - while you are here, have you got anything to add about hoses not being pulled in the pit lane
🙂