really not sure a 3″ tyre is needed on a drop bar bike)?

You can fit 25mm slicks if you really want, the joys of lots of clearance. Lots of options.

Not pitched at the same demographic as the evil at all so unfair to compare them really

– “Damn, our new bike looks terrible!! What are we going to do???”

– “Just stick some tanwall tyres on it”

I wasnt moaning about the 3″ clearance, i agree more mud room is always better than less. Just seemed an odd trade off with a fat bike crank when most plus bikes make a normal one work.

Its not really a copy of the Fargo either, so much as it’s a copy of any other bike.  Personally I don’t get the whole gravel bike thing and that Evil makes me feel a bit meh, what is the benefit over say a decent cross country 29er? Just a collection of compromises as I see it, but happy to admit I’m wrong.  My friends who own them absolutely love them.

It’s funky looking but what’s it for?

Sorry I just don’t get “Gravel bikes”.

Getting gravel bikes is not exactly difficult. It is a bike made for riding on gravel roads, i.e. like a road bike but with room for bigger tyres for better grip/comfort.

What I don’t get is a bike like the Evil as a standard gravel bike is perfect for riding on gravel roads. If you need one to do whatever the Evil is designed for it is probably no longer a gravel bike.

I wasnt moaning about the 3″ clearance, i agree more mud room is always better than less. Just seemed an odd trade off with a fat bike crank when most plus bikes make a normal one work.

Just asked & the website is a typo, it’s a standard size BB 73mm

It is a bike made for riding on gravel roads

Ok I lied I get Gravel bikes. I obviously don’t get why anyone would spend money on a bike that’s for riding the bits of “off road” that you try and avoid on a mountainbike because they’re tedious.

Do we even have enough gravel roads in the UK to justify the use of one of these things, even in the +1 world, at £5k+?

Each to their own of course.

I obviously don’t get why anyone would spend money on a bike that’s for riding the bits of “off road” that you try and avoid on a mountainbike because they’re tedious.

Because round here, in winter, those bits are usually the only bits of off road ridign that aren’t either claggy mud or slop – a lot of rides are dipping on and off road to join the rideable bits together and something that can do a bit of everything is pretty useful.

Think of a gravel bike as a ‘cross bike designed with more than ‘cross racing in mind.

Just asked & the website is a typo, it’s a standard size BB 73mm

That makes a lot more sense! Still out of my budget mind you.

Its not really a copy of the Fargo either, so much as it’s a copy of any other bike.

True, if fills the same niche as a Fargo Ti then. Or at least the same niche as the cutthroat, but Ti, which makes it very similar to a Fargo Ti.

Personally I don’t get the whole gravel bike thing and that Evil makes me feel a bit meh, what is the benefit over say a decent cross country 29er?

Benefits – comfort. I know you can ride 24h on an XC bike, but that doesn’t make flat bars the right tool for the job. Took 2 weeks to regain the feeling in my hands after my last properly long weekend (320 miles) on a flat bar’d bike!

Fun – it’s subjective, but they “make the trails come alive”, when your local trails maybe aren’t the Golfie or Helvellyn.

Speed & Distance. There’s probably only 2 worthwhile 90 minute loops from my house on an XC bike. Increase the speed by ~20%, and add in some of the even less technical options and I can just head out and make it up as I go along because a couple of road miles here and there or a long fire road is no longer quite so dull.

Just a collection of compromises as I see it, but happy to admit I’m wrong. My friends who own them absolutely love them.

I’ve deliberately separated this bit out of the quote. You could put DH bike, enduro, trail, XC, road, CX, recumbent, TT, e-bike in front of it.

Ok I lied I get Gravel bikes. I obviously don’t get why anyone would spend money on a bike that’s for riding the bits of “off road” that you try and avoid on a mountainbike because they’re tedious.

Do we even have enough gravel roads in the UK to justify the use of one of these things, even in the +1 world, at £5k+?

If you really just wanted to ride a “gravel road” I’d bet almost the entire population of the UK is within a short ride of a FC plantation of some sort. But really that would be dull and waste of a day out.

Probably more of those plantations and fire roads than there are “mountains” to ride a “mountain bike” on though.

But they’re a lot more versatile than that. Mostly we’re talking 35-47mm CX style tyres on 650b or 700c rims and bikes weighing ~20lb. Which makes them lightning quick on muddy singletrack as long as it’s not rocky (that 99% of the UK I was talking about).

Put it this way, XC used to be rigid 26″ bikes with 72deg head angles and 140mm stems in the days of Tomac and JMC which were all you needed to ride over a bridleway or round a field (because even in the Lake district or Scotland, that’s what 99% of off road riding is).

They’re now 120mm travel 68deg HA 22lb trail bikes like the Trek Fuel, Specialized Epic intended for much more technical courses that for the most part don’t exist outside of a few honeypot locations and trail centers.

“Gravel” bikes give you something more capable than those old XC bikes, with more comfort, better brakes, tubeless tyres (with better compounds and construction too) and modern frame materials. Better in every way than the bikes we used to ride, just a different evolutionary branch to the way “XC” bikes went.

Reductio ad absurdum: why would you ride road, cyclocross, XC, trail, enduro or freeride when you could have a DH bike surely all the others are just bikes designed for the tedious push-up and riding along bits that you avoid as much as possible on a DH bike (and thus limit your riding to only the downhill bits in a very small number of locations around the country).

Ok I lied I get Gravel bikes. I obviously don’t get why anyone would spend money on a bike that’s for riding the bits of “off road” that you try and avoid on a mountainbike because they’re tedious.

Come to Scotland, a lot of those ‘tedious’ bits happen to either link up some pretty exciting bits of road (e.g. twisty steep singletrack roads to hill farms) OR allow you access to some big old wild glens that would be a bit tame on the MTB but perfect for something faster and more agile. Ticks the ‘fun riding experience’ and ‘exploring new scenery’ boxes at once.

Am genuinely excited about some of the big gravel routes I have planned for the summer 😎

Very well put. Also agree that drops are more comfortable over longer rides but I find flats or risers more fun to ride (I don’t do hours on end rides) so if you put risers on a gravel bike you really do end up with a bike that rides like an 80’s MTB with generally slightly narrower (although tubeless) tyres and turns out it is the perfect bike for everywhere I ride.

I obviously don’t get why anyone would spend money on a bike that’s for riding the bits of “off road” that you try and avoid on a mountainbike because they’re tedious.

Because they’re brilliant at riding the bits of “off road” that allow you to bypass unpleasant bits of road, and at converting swathes of landscape from being uninspiring pootles on a mountain bike to being interesting parts of bigger rides.

This one’s different, though, in that it’s basically a modern MTB with drop bars. I can see it appealing to people who jumped on the LLS bandwagon and want to couple it to the gravel bandwagon to make some sort of bizarre, out-of-control bandwagon convoy that really should have been allowed to come to a halt on John Tomac’s ranch years ago.

What I don’t get is if the market exists for extreme outliers like the Evil, why the f— is nobody producing a rim brake gravel bike?

Obviously only a minority of people would want it, but all the components exist to make something really nice and light, I’m building one at the moment using a canti CX frame but would love a frame better suited to the task (lower BB, taller headtube).

And before people pile in telling me what a terrible idea it is, remember I said *minority* e.g. those amongst us who haven’t confused their gravel bike with their mountain bike…

I’m pretty sure there’s been a big thread on this recently, but I use my gravel bike instead of a road bike, not instead of a mountain bike. I enjoy road riding up to a point, but it’s also a necessity for keeping fit enough to race my mountain bike. Having a gravel bike has meant that I can ride to work entirely off road on gentle paths, canal towpaths, forest, farm and estate tracks and so on, have more fun than if I road biked and still get to work on time and do some decent training. I also use it for some daft rides around the Pentlands midweek where it livens up tame singletrack so I’ve had something similar to the thrill of a mountain bike ride without having to drive anywhere.

I live in Edinburgh so I don’t go out for gravel rides on the weekend when there’s mountain biking to be done, but during the week to liven up a 15-30 mile road ride they’re excellent. I can see them livening up your life if you lived somewhere like, say, Lincolnshire or Kent and you’d somehow reached a point where mountain biking was your hobby.

This Evil thing just looks too off road focussed, too mountain bikey. It looks like it’d be a great gravel bike for singletrack, but that automatically means it’s worse than a mountain bike, but a rubbish gravel bike for gravel and road, which is the bulk of a gravel ride. It’d probably be much better built up as a lightweight XC bike with a suspension fork.

I wait with interest to see a few reviews. Personally I quite like its looks. Lots of people pooh poohed slack MTBs not the long ago an now even XC bikes have gone that way.

why the f— is nobody producing a rim brake gravel bike? Obviously only a minority of people would want it, but all the components exist to make something really nice and light

You’re going to save about half a pound at most. For that you’re going to trade braking performance, tyre clearance and compatibility with modern/premium parts. (Are there [m]any thru-axle rim brake hubs?)

Anyway, what you’re asking for already exists, it’s just that it’s called a tourer or audax bike.

I’ve got clearance for 42c WTB Resolutes with rim brakes and space to spare. Also that 1/2lb saving doesn’t include all the other pimpy components you can afford because you haven’t sunk hundreds into allbthe disc brake paraphernalia.

Re performance, well that’s when the ‘minority’ aspect comes in, obviously I’m the minority who just doesn’t need the extra performance, the gravel tracks I’m riding are designed for logging trucks and farm vehicles, I’m not racing the Ft William downhill track! The only audax frames I’ve found have limited tyre clearance m, no canti studs, heavy, crap geo etc etc.

Anyway, if you don’t get where I’m coming from you’re obviously not part of my minority market, I’d love to find out just how small a minority it is!

why the f— is nobody producing a rim brake gravel bike? Obviously only a minority of people would want it, but all the components exist to make something really nice and light

I’ve got one, a charge Plug SS (the alloy framed one with massed of clearance, slightly slacker than a CX bike, longer TT and shorter stem).

It’s Ok, only OK.

The brakes are awful, and I’m sure have gotten worse, I need to try new pads. But you pretty much have to drag them down any hill as there’s not going to be enough ooomph to stop you from full speed like disks in the mud.

Strava says I’ve done about 500 miles on it and the rims are already scored.

Pads have to be adjusted at least weekly.

Only upside is it’s cheaper. Which probably explains why no one makes new ones, the cheapskate market is catered for by s/h cross frames.

But it’s not actually cheaper, RS505 brake sets are ~£200 on merlin, 105 shifters are £150, £20 for compressionless cables and £30 for some mid level v-brakes and the price is the same. Also the cost of replacement rims.

It was fine in summer. But over the winter I’m just finding it hard work. The road bike is fine with rim brakes because they’re mostly clean and only get used for stopping rather than dragged, but the V’s on the plug have just gotten worse and worse and need constant TLC.

Also disk frames are typically lighter and more comfortable as you don’t need to add stiffness and strength at the mid point of the stays.

Rim brakes are rubbish. I’m waiting for a bargain Arkose SS or Charge Grinduro to come up as a replacement.

I’ve got one, a charge Plug SS (the alloy framed one with massed of clearance, slightly slacker than a CX bike, longer TT and shorter stem).

Lol, we need to start an owners club.

It’s the Charge that has convinced me of the merits of rim brakes for certain types of riding. I run TRP CX 8.4s (e.g. the poshest of the posh mini-Vs) with Swisstop BXP pads on the stock aluminium rims. 4500km, no significant rim wear, no ‘near death’ braking experiences, and most importantly, silent braking in all conditions! Blessed silence, that’s worth a few extra metres braking distance for me. Haven’t done many steep muddy descents though, worst has been roads covered in snow melt and a couple of farm tracks.

Anyway, I’m hijacking the thread with my stock moan so won’t comment any further. The rim brake minority is thus far- ME lol

Yea, in a slightly ironic way, Charge managed to build a summer singlespeed!

Anyway, if you don’t get where I’m coming from you’re obviously not part of my minority market, I’d love to find out just how small a minority it is!

I’m in. I keep looking at cross bikes but I am looking for cantilever braked bargains as I don’t really use brakes. I had a few single speed cross bike 10 years ago and the canti brakes on them were fine all year round.
I am however happy with cross bike geometry so the higher BB is not a concern so I guess I am not really in your minority after all so just you then 🙂

Also disk frames are typically lighter and more comfortable as you don’t need to add stiffness and strength at the mid point of the stays.

But then the reverse is probably true of the fork. Either way, in the grand scheme of things I don’t think it’s a massive deal, especially in the context of the more significant differences between discs and rim brakes.

the poshest of the posh mini-Vs

How do you get on with those? I tried mini Vs (not posh ones) on my Cross Check for a while, and although they braked fine, they were a nightmare for releasing the cable and the wheel, I had to unbolt the cable to release them. Hated them, went back to cantis fairly promptly.

I’d quite like a Steamroller as a summer gravel bike to be honest, but they’re expensive new and 62cm secondhand ones don’t come up very often.

How do you get on with those? I tried mini Vs (not posh ones) on my Cross Check for a while, and although they braked fine, they were a nightmare for releasing the cable and the wheel

I keep forgetting this drawback to mini-Vs, I run singlespeed brake levers with a Campag style quick release, so I just leave the levers released all the time. Means I have to reach a bit further to grab the lever but I can switch between bikes without ever noticing the difference.

Am running pish Cantis on new bike (Shorty Ultimates) as I think they have better mud clearance for CX Races.

Anyway, apologies OP, I’ve continued to hijack!

These gravel bikes are so 2008.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/5GsiqG]2008_1102penmachno0026[/url] by multispeedstu, on Flickr

So… Bringing the thread back on track… I’ve ridden it (the Evil Chamois Hagar that is)! Albeit only for a 15 minute messabout in a car park. But it was enough to allay any fears I had about its geometry (though I doubt my opinions will count for much to most!). It’s good… It’s REALLY good…

I wait with interest to see a few reviews. Personally I quite like its looks. Lots of people pooh poohed slack MTBs not the long ago an now even XC bikes have gone that way.

Well, some good news for you… Guy Kesteven has one at the moment in for review. If you don’t already, follow him on Facebook/YouTube as he’s had it a couple of weeks already, so expect to see something soon about it.

As for what you’ve said about the geometry… I couldn’t agree more! People were quick to dismiss the original Evil Following as being too long/low/slack for a 29er when it came out (I had one as soon as they came out, they weren’t!), by the standards of 5 years later the mk1 Following would be considered pretty conservative! My quick car park test reveals that the Chamois Hagar handles/behaves/turns just like, well… a bike! It felt a bit reminiscent of a Whyte Friston or Gisburn (bikes that sell well in the UK market already) to be honest, but a tiny bit slacker and with a lot more standover clearance. Yes, the front wheel is a bit further out front, but it’s not the kind of gravel bike you’re likely to run a dimpled slick on, but probably one of the newer breed of more agressive gravel bike tyres.

There’s really only one thing holding me back from comitting to buying one right now, and that’s the “how much would I actually use it” question…? I have 2 MTB’s already, 2 road bikes too, and though I do see a gravel bike as the ideal “ride from home” bike for me (I am a 25min drive from any decent MTB trails, but there’s plenty of bridleways, canals and woods locally that would be a lot more enticing on the right bike than the local busy roads on my own of an evening), I know what I’m like, and I like riding full sus MTB’s on exciting trails, or carbon road bikes with deep section wheels in fast(ish) group rides, and anything inbetween and I get bored sooner than later! Of course I could just buy a cheap gravel bike as an interim, to see if I like it, but it won’t be the same of course…

Hell… It’s only money!

I listened to Selene Yager talk about it on a podcast and she seemed to like it too! It’s a lovely looking bine but I guess it’s going to be at least a £2.5k Frame set!

a £2.5k Frame set!

£2499 at the moment… I guess we’ve got til Friday afternoon until the £ crashes, and the price rises, so no pressure! 😉

LoL! Please don’t tempt fate Im looking at a Cutthroat at the moment and I really could do with out any additional price rises!! 🤦🏻‍♂️😂😂

Marc Beaumont has one.

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First day on the @evilbicycles Chamois Hagar. I can honestly say I had no expectations, I planned a mixed route, Green lanes, Bridleways & even Mellow trails. So cool being able to link multiple destinations together. Such a raw experience when the terrain gets mildly technical.Definitely enjoyed it and can’t wait to get out again!! #chamoishagar #bleedblackdieevil #bleedblackrideevil #gravelbike #gravel #outdoorsisfree #graveling #getoutdoors #bike #bikelife #bikersofinstagram #rideshimano #shimanogrx

A post shared by Marc Beaumont (@beaumont_slugger) on Jan 18, 2020 at 10:13am PST

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Hanging with my bro’s from across the pond!! @steezygiese765 @kylenorbraten #bleedblackdieevil #bleedblackrideevil #chamoishagar #shredcomestogravel

A post shared by Marc Beaumont (@beaumont_slugger) on Jan 25, 2020 at 4:15am PST

That bloke in the middle doesn’t look especially happy about it!

Bare carbon is boring, throw some colour at it Evil & go super outlandish!

I’ve got an Evil MTB and I think it looks horrific, too horrific to buy even if it rides well.

Looks like the one that On One are currently doing only less colourful and a lot more expensive. Being short of leg I love anything with a sloping top tube.

Marc Beaumont has one.

It was Beaumont’s I had a quick spin on…

There’s an entire velonews tech podcast about this bike for anyone interested. Features someone from evil so a bit of an infomercial but explains the design decisions

Living in Kent I have to travel to find decent mtb riding. That hasn’t been a problem but this winter especially has made it not worth the effort due to trail conditions. That leaves me with local riding riding which isn’t particularly challenging But would likely be more ‘spicy’ on a gravel bike. I’m not looking to do big road miles and would prefer a bike that goes down any hill better than it goes up one…the same as with my mtb’s

Hopefully would work out better than the fat bike experiment!

From what I can work out, Guy hated it, but then fitted a shorter stem and wider bar and now likes it more.

Cool, I’d love a bike named after a 70+ year old rocker. How tres moderne