that 12.9m includes EU citizens (i.e. not a UK passport holder) who live and work in the UK and therefore pay taxes and vote in everything else

They only get to vote in local elections, not national ones.

But, dear god, do we have to hear the same not particularly good arguments being made again and again and again, posters on other subjects seemingly get banned for doing it, maybe we should start doing that on this one.

Well done for bringing this up again… EU citizens (not UK citizens, but living here) can’t vote in a General Election… that does not mean they automatically can not vote in National Elections… as regards referendums… who can vote is decided for each referendum… choices were made for this one… by all mean argue why you think the right choices were made (at the time the advisory status of this referendum was one of the main arguments for not widening out the vote to more groups, you’d be wise to avoid that one now).

Oh, and… and this one still seems odd to me… an EU citizen living in Scotland could vote to keep Scotland in the UK (and so in the EU, protecting their own legal status) in one referendum, but in the subsequent one couldn’t vote to keep the UK in the EU. Odd.

Should politicians bear this kind of thing in mind now? Argue away that they shouldn’t… but those bringing it up again now at this late stage, as politicians have to make big decisions, are probably perfectly entitled to do so, no?

OK, they can’t vote for MPS would have correct, but the point still stands they can’t vote in all elections – not sure there is anything odd about a different approach being taken by a devolved administration, it is bound to happen. Plenty of our Scottish friends were furious they weren’t getting a say in their nation’s future.

that 12.9m includes EU citizens (i.e. not a UK passport holder) who live and work in the UK and therefore pay taxes and vote in everything else, but were excluded from voting. can’t find the specific number via google

According to google there were 46,500,001 eligible referendum voters and 33,551,983 actually voted. That leaves 12,948,018 people who were eligible to vote but did not. I would guess that a great many of those didn’t even realise they could vote.

Even so, it’s a huge number of people to ignore/forget and pretty stark when you consider the 16.1 million who wanted to remain.

It’s not a competition with winners and losers (though that’s how it’s being portrayed) & whatever the outcome we’ve all got to live here, so I just don’t get how a vast majority can be ignored by the the idiots in Parliament who essentially failed in their 1 responsibility in our version of democracy.

Breakdown of numbers are here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

I think at this stage in the game, counting people who didn’t or couldn’t vote as people who “didn’t vote for brexit” is somewhere between pointless and disingenuous. The referendum was three years ago nearly, the horse hasn’t just bolted, it’s somewhere in New Zealand having a bit of a gallop.

Aside from anything else, we don’t know how those people would have voted. The ~quarter of the population who couldn’t be bothered back then probably still don’t care now, by and large, so their opinion is moot. The quarter who couldn’t, who knows how they would have voted? I expect that the settled EU immigrants in the UK would have voted remain in large numbers and younger people are predominantly remain also, but really it’s whataboutery and guesswork at best. The referendum happened, woulda coulda shoulda ain’t gonna change that. I’m frankly sick to the back teeth of hearing “yes but referendum” from both quarters by now.

What I AM incandescently angry about however is the continual attempts by leavers – and the ominshambles that passes for parliament these days – not just to ignore “those who didn’t vote for it” but those who actively voted against it. The idea that the votes of 17 million people must be obeyed at all costs (and my god, what costs) and yet the votes of another 16 million people must be totally ignored without further consideration. Every one of those votes are as important as the others irrespective of which way they voted. Where is our voice, where is our representation?

This isn’t “democracy,” it’s an absolute **** travesty of democracy is what it is. The next person to tell me to “shut up and get over it” is going to get a punch in the cock.

The mainlanders that have become british I’m assuming now have a vote.

Do we know how many of them there are?

mickmcd

Member

she also took her petition to jezza and he turned her away

No she didn’t and no he didn’t. She took her petition to Labour hq, knowing in advance that they wouldn’t accept it (they don’t accept any petition deliveries in person). Just a silly stunt.

Or a cunning stunt?

Why can’t politicians just act with virtue and in good faith rather than being manipulative misleading media whores?

What chance do voters have to vote in an ethically and morraly sound way when faced with this level of dishonesty?

That goes for all parties.

The way USA, China, Japan, India etc have responded to our “efforts” to seek post Brexit trade deals must be worrying even those that believe in the likes of Fox & Co

Maitlis destroyed him on newsnight earlier this week, he looked hollowed out.

To be fair on leave voters I don’t think anyone guessed that the brexiteers would be this utterly incompetent.

My opinion of the likes of grayling, fox, mogg etc was about as low as you could get, but even I didn’t imagine they’d be this clueless.

https://twitter.com/TheMediaTweets/status/1101597422382469120

they don’t accept any petition deliveries in person

Actually, it was pre-agreed and pre-arranged, but then HQ changed their mind when they arrived at the time and date agreed. Delivering the petition in person was indeed a “stunt”, but not being allowed in was a surprise (and perhaps also a “stunt”, but not one intended by the MP). Anyway, they’ve chased her out. One of many MPs (of all parties) who’ll be out of a job thanks to inparty fighting since the referendum was called.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

Can anyone explain the Labour position? So Labour help May plan in exchange for second vote. But if May’s plan passes, we leave the EU in 28 days and then have 2 more years of kicking can / sorting out the deal. A second vote won’t be on May’s final deal but on rejoining the EU.

Confused of Bristol.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47426138

It’s almost as if some on here are psychic…

Actually, it was pre-agreed and pre-arranged, but then HQ changed their mind when they arrived at the time and date agreed. Delivering the petition in person was indeed a “stunt”, but not being allowed in was a surprise (and perhaps also a “stunt”, but not one intended by the MP). Anyway, they’ve chased her out. One of many MPs (of all parties) who’ll be out of a job thanks to inparty fighting since the referendum was called.

Maybe I should have written the long version as opposed to sensationalising it for the jeb ends

kelvin

Actually, it was pre-agreed and pre-arranged, but then HQ changed their mind when they arrived at the time and date agreed.

As far as I’ve ever seen, the only person to claim this is Angela Smith. Meanwhile “we don’t take petitions in person” has been Labour hq policy for years (and also Tory party policy), and they say that Smith was told this in advance.

As far as importing potentially kak food from the US is concerned, won’t people just vote with their money?

Either the food will be exposed as rubbish, fail to sell and the venture will fold, or people will decide they love it, it will sell and the venture will succeed.

Isn’t food labeled with country of origin?

Let the market decide? The only problem with that is the race to the bottom in an economically screwed UK that will put our producers out of business. Then the cheap choice becomes the only choice.

Can American chicken make kfc even shitter?
American beef a Big Mac even more disgusting?
Barry Brexit won’t care as long as he gets his fat fix.

The problem with the American food regs is that they allow lower hygiene & welfare for animals before slaughter + hormones etc then have to extra wash the carcass later. Whether it’s due to farming practices or not America has a higher (double?) rate of food poisoning to the UK.
And who looks at the country of origin on food labels? If it’s cheaper it sells, this would force UK farmers to also slash standards to compete or go bust, -& that would prevent us from selling to the EU, which is by far our biggest export market.

Kimbers, double isn’t even close. Have a look here for the first 6 Months of 2018.

Roughly 1500 deaths per year (source)

Cheers for the link sandwich, that’s bonkers!

Isn’t country of origin labelling an EU rule? I’m sure we won’t need such red tape in our New Utopia.

Perhaps people should start reading the labels…..just a thought.

Shopping in the brave new world “Beyond The Wall” will be time consuming if we have to read the labels on all the food. Produce of USA should help with choices for those of us that can afford it, the poor buggers on income support will be screwed though.

spekkie

Member
Perhaps people should start reading the labels…..just a thought

Or perhaps we could try& ensure that all food brought into the country reaches at certain minimum safety standard?

Or perhaps we could try& ensure that all food brought into the country reaches at certain minimum safety standard?

Which is something that is much easier to do if you haven’t just torpedoed your own economy, dropped your trousers and are touching your toes……

This is well worth a listen

Isn’t country of origin labelling an EU rule? I’m sure we won’t need such red tape in our New Utopia.

exactly – nor will GM foods need to be labeled

Isn’t country of origin labelling an EU rule? I’m sure we won’t need such red tape in our New Utopia.

exactly – nor will GM foods need to be labeled

My guess is the legislation will be cut and pasted from EU into British legislation. Just like 99% of the rest. You guys just keep on looking at worst case scenarios with out any evidence thats what in fact will happen.

Yep the us confectioners don’t want to have to label gm or food coloring.

Trade deals are er easy.

You guys just keep on looking at worst case scenarios with out any evidence thats what in fact will happen.

Worst case doesn’t happen on day one thou it will be a gradual sneaking in of things over a period of time.

My guess is the legislation will be cut and pasted from EU into British legislation. Just like 99% of the rest. You guys just keep on looking at worst case scenarios with out any evidence thats what in fact will happen.

Typical brexiter, only thinking five minutes ahead. That legislation will be cut out once we attempt at getting trade deals with the likes of the US.

The US have made it clear this is the price for a trade deal.

Yep the us confectioners don’t want to have to label gm or food coloring.

But if British law requires them to they’ll have to do. At least if they want to export to the UK. Why do you think that can’t happen ? Parliment is and will be mostly remain regardless of whether or how we leave. If there’s a need for food labelling thats what we’ll get.

The US have made it clear this is the price for a trade deal

Which we’ve agreed to ? I must have missed the signing ceremony.

Typical brexiter

I’ll say this again for the terminally dense. I’m a remainer, just not a hysterical “sky’s falling” doom merchant which serves no purpose for me, my family or community.

Taxi – you are correct initially. EU law is already enshrined in uk law – we are mandated to do so.

The issue is that the whole Brexit concept is to free us from all this EU nanny state red tape apparently. The people pushing the agenda want deregulation and pure market capitalism. That basically means less rules and regulation for business, less workers rights and less quality control on imports.

We have taken a lot of these basic rights for granted – most only came into existence from the EU.

Food labellling, including contents/nutrition
Animal welfare rules
Workers rights
Minimum wage
Maximum working hours

Amazing protections we get as citizens thanks to the EU, but all just barriers to profit to the free market capitalists.

The Brexit sold to the population as “taking back control” is just a smokescreen to the real power and agenda.

There is no good news from this.
If Enola can go and get a ” deal” from the septics regardless how shit it is the papers can hail Brexit a success.
We will take whatever deal we are offered.
Edit .unless we get David the rottweiler Davis to do the negotiations.