@chewkw
You may have a point if “the EU” was a separate entity from its member states.

Oh god… he’s taken his tinfoil helmet off again

Having only heard Motorhead on the radio the I’m quite surprised that Lammy isn’t an ugly white bloke with warts.

Yep, anyone who opposes brexit is the Enemy there, the speech was a good one, it’s not about convincing the brexit loonies, they are lost, it’s about reminding everyone who is wavering that they are getting nothing they were promised.

Ahem… blue passports?

Chewkw
David Lammy’s speech may not unite the people of Britain, however he obviously feels strongly European, as do a significant number of remain voters, myself included. I think his words are aimed to try to bring about us staying in the EU which will unite a greater number of people. Half of UK voters will be happy as will other trading nations and certainly our fellow Europeans.

Believe me, Brexit will be the single largest factor in dis-uniting the UK.

Ultimately, do I think letting down the kind of people that voted for Brexit is a price worth paying to ensure unity with my 300 million fellow Europeans?

Most certainly yes! And I got the impression David Lammy thinks so too.

Obviously this would have to be done through persuasive argument and a second referendum. May’s deal v staying in the EU.

Lol chewk.
The EU didn’t really exist before the so called ‘great wars’ where European countries were regularly at war with each other to varying degrees.

There’s been no war since, so on that basis alone the EU project has been a triumph of politics and cooperation.

Also chewk, why do you use the term ‘great’ in the context of war? What exactly do you think is ‘great’ about millions of innocent people being killed?

: markedly superior in character or quality
especially : NOBLE
great of soul
10a : remarkably skilled
great at tennis
b : marked by enthusiasm : KEEN
great on science fiction
11 —used as a generalized term of approval
had a great time
it was just great

Great – also means large.

See: Great Britain. Great Wall of China.

You must (surely) have heard of WWI being called the Great War??
https://www.quora.com/Why-was-World-War-1-WW1-called-The-Great-War-Whats-the-history-behind-this-name

Yeh we all know.

I was pointing out the abuse of the word in that particular context.

Typical brexiter /fascist tactics.

I would like to remind everyone that the killfile is extremely effective at improving your internet experience when a poster won’t refrain from posting nonsense, whether it’s malicious or simply because they’re a nuisance.

What happened to Mefty?

Usually well spoken, apparently in the know and well connected with Mps in that London.

Brexit not going as planned?

Ultimately, do I think letting down the kind of people that voted for Brexit is a price worth paying

Are they inferior to you then, less deserving as a result.

fascist tactics

pot/kettle

pot/pot/kettle

Kettle kettle pot pot?

Has anyone here ever seen mefty and chewkw in the same place ,at the same time ?Makes you think, eh?

Not inferior mefty, but certainly going down a course I completely disagree with. Remember, that if a second referendum comes around with May’s deal or remain, now we would have something more concrete to vote for. You don’t have to permanently tie your colours to the Brexit mast. You are more than welcome to change your mind, and it would be perfectly acceptable for you to do so.

Those that continue to spout the crap and chant project fear are the lost ones, I don’t think anybody actually asked the Tory MP’s disputing the governments analysis what work they had done on the subject or if in fact they had even thought about the problem.
Given some stark and real life options vs the fantasy land should focus the mind of those that can actually think for themselves.

That’s the thing Mike. I have not heard a lot of argument against the government’s analysis. There appears to be consensus that we will be financially worse off with any Brexit scenario versus staying in the EU.

That’s the thing Mike. I have not heard a lot of argument against the government’s analysis.

Yep its only the die hard fanatics but they continue to criticise without providing any evidence of why. The bbc had 4 different ones in saying the port and stockpiling story was just rubbish because it was obviously.

His speech has no substance in uniting the people

How would you try and unite the country? I don’t think that’s possible. May has stripped me of my rights, separated me from my friends, colleagues and allies, and damaged my country.

I’m not uniting behind that, ever.

It would be strange for someone who voted remain to be chained to the Brexit mast, that said, if there were to be a second referendum which I still think is an unlikely option, I would be minded to vote leave as I don’t like the attitude of many remainers. This thread being instrumental in that potential choice.

Bit pathetic to vote leave and shaft everyone’s future to spite them though isn’t it

I would be minded to vote leave as I don’t like the attitude of many remainers

Sorry that’s a crap reason for voting either way and is the sort of thinking that leads to daft results. Vote for what you believe to be the best outcome – I’d rather have a bunch of cockwombles working for the collective good than some righteous dudes running the country into the ground.

Will of the people though.

Apparently.

if there were to be a second referendum which I still think is an unlikely option, I would be minded to vote leave

See, it sounds like your colours are currently tied to the Brexit mast mefty

Bit pathetic to vote leave and shaft everyone’s future to spite them though isn’t it

Typical Brexiter mentality really.

Yeah but think of the unicorns

mefty, I posted that I thought that there was consensus on the economic argument that we would be worse off. Rather than return in a strop why not find some economic analysis to say the opposite. It may be out there and worth discussing, but failure to provide any only highlights why those currently on the remain side of the argument may be annoyed at us all becoming poorer.

Check out those high maintenance remainers, always seeking facts, analysis, research and reasoned evaluation to base their decisions on.

Yeah but think of the unicorns

The unicorns don’t fare that well ether…

Surely its not hard to have a second ref

First ref wasnt legal binding

Second ref wouldnt be legally binding

This whole will of the people thing seems a bit well…. Bobbins

This whole will of the people thing seems a bit well…. Bobbins

It’s as if it turns out not all 17 million people thought the same way, or had the same ideas, or read the actual literature. Potentially that many of their views were entirely incompatible with their leave voting mates.
Still we have been presented with the result of the simplest deal in the history of deals, or perhaps it’s the deal presented by simpletons and fantasists (who have also abandoned the deal they negotiated.
Again I’d love to see some good detailed analysis of how the deal presented by May will enrich the nation and improve the quality of life and the economy. I’d settle for some that presents it as not a complete disaster.

It’s simple democracy to have a second vote.

Many people are now better informed, and have discovered that much of the Brexit case was pure fantasy.

We have also had a chance to evaluate the competence of the govt that would take us out in to the Great Unknown…

After Carillon, Interserve now needs rescue.
Those 350m a week are badly needed.

I’m sure we could ask a couple of Brexie Tories why they are having financial issues, if it
a) Immigrants
b) The EU
c) Immigrants from the EU

athgray – People voted for Brexit despite the economic warnings, banging on about them achieves nothing, there is more to life than money.

banging on about them achieves nothing, there is more to life than money.

Except now it’s hitting people’s pockets, it will be hitting more and more people. As most sources show people are turning against brexit, selfishness will be one of the reasons people will consider their position, it’s one of the most important factors people vote on.

But back to the positives… what other things apart from money will be better?

oh and people are not just banging on about the money

Plenty of arguments being made, plenty of things to talk about

athgray – People voted for Brexit despite the economic warnings, banging on about them achieves nothing, there is more to life than money.

Two points I would make in response to that. Firstly, I thought people voted for Brexit thinking they would be better off financially.
Secondly, in a discussion such as this I rarely mention finances, as there is a lot of to and fro and a range of economic arguments. I only did so here, because of the overwhelming opinion of EXPERTS on the subject.

I have regularly written about my feelings on this referendum and other recent referendums and finances rarely enters my argument. David Lammy summed up my thoughts and he does not bang on about money.

Surely its not hard to have a second ref

I still maintain it’s not needed. Parliament could end this without a second referendum. But are there sufficient spines in the Commons?