That’s the “they need us more than we need them mentally” they think we can still do what we like while stopping everyone else doing similar.

So Cougar you’re unwilling to compromise nor are the RW media backed hard Brexit brigade.  I wonder who will win?

Just to be clear Idont see the Chequers paper as a soft Brexit.

So Cougar you’re unwilling to compromise nor are the RW media backed hard Brexit brigade.  I wonder who will win?

The RW media have already won to a large extent. All they need is no workable deal to be offered and they can blame the EU

the time for compromise and reform was after the referendum and then no article 50.

No politicians will stand up and say this is madness we need to stop and take a step back. It has gone too far

There was never impetus for a plan or a deal so there is none.

Make no mistake the RW papers will blame the EU for not accepting the deal or giving us options. The LW papers will blame incompetent ministers. Ministers will resign and that revenue will disappear but the EU will remain as a focus for hate…  at some point remainers will start hating the EU as it reminds them of what they lost…

at some point remainers will start hating the EU as it reminds them of what they lost

I know where my hate is going to be directed, and it isn’t the EU. It’s at the lying, scheming, self-serving, mendacious bastards who got us this far.

I’d happily serve time to be left alone in a room with Boris Johnson

I know where my hate is going to be directed

How much of it should be directed towards the idiots who voted for it? I’m about as leftwing as they come but I really struggle to have much sympathy for the white working class who have allowed their ignorant prejudices to override their own interests.

How much of it should be directed towards the idiots who voted for it? I’m about as leftwing as they come but I really struggle to have much sympathy for the white working class who have allowed their ignorant prejudices to override their own interests.

Yessir massah

how dare the savage proletariat attempt to undermine your bourgeois lifestyle at the risk of their own servitude

how dare the savage proletariat attempt to undermine your bourgeois lifestyle at the risk of their own servitude

Is that what you think has happened here?

You think that somehow, post-Brexit, the country’s going to become more left wing and egalitarian?  Really?

how dare the savage proletariat attempt to undermine your bourgeois lifestyle at the risk of their own servitude

and how is it going to get better?

How much of it should be directed towards the idiots who voted for it?

I have to admit when I see people in Cornwall and Wales, in particular, saying they hope they will keep being handed bundles of cash and getting worried it wont happen my sympathy levels are rather low.

I just hope they dont fall for the lies again and this time hold the right set of elites to blame. Although admittedly most of them would be hard to find since they are busy off shoring everything.

You think that somehow, post-Brexit, the country’s going to become more left wing and egalitarian?  Really?

Its already become more democratic.

and how is it going to get better?

Lefties like you have spent years paying lip service to ‘inequality’ while not giving a flying **** about the factories and jobs lost to the EU. You think the people in northern mill towns really care if you find it more difficult to spend a week in Provence?

Its already become more democratic.

Lolz.  Is your ideal democracy where the people get to vote on every major issue?  You think that’s going to be better?  Answer this please.

But also answer the original question – do you think the UK is going to become more egalitarian and equal after Brexit?  If so, why?

Lolz.  Is your ideal democracy where the people get to vote on every major issue?  You think that’s going to be better?  Answer this please.

Nah Ninfan’s ideal place is where the people who agree with him make sure that their point of view is protected from those who are not the same. The way he belittles opponents as lefties etc. tells you he doesn’t like to be challenged or have his views confronted. It’s a shame debate is now at the point of name calling rather than engaging over facts.

You think the people in northern mill towns really care if you find it more difficult to spend a week in Provence?

How much time do you spend in northern mill towns?

You think the people in northern mill towns really care if you find it more difficult to spend a week in Provence?

What the **** has Provence got to do with it?  Going abroad is a middle class thing is it?

Working class people go on **** holiday too you ****.

Working class people go on **** holiday too you ****.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.

liberty equality fraternity

How does Brexit deliver that to the people??

Erm I live in a northern Mill town and I enjoy my European holidays.

I also have to work for a living so that makes me a working class Northern mill Town dweller.

My parents emigrated to mainland Europe too, so it’s nice to be able to flit over for a visit  and it’s nice for them to have reciprocal health care agreements in place so they don’t have to pay crippling private insurance costs.

Maybe they’ll get booted out of Spain and forced to repatriate into the UK.if all this nonsense goes ahead.

Ninfan once again demonstrates what a troll he is.

Ninfan once again demonstrates what a troll he is.

Once Rabb and Rees-Mogg get in charge and wipe out those tedious regulations which protect workers to some degree then he will be right. Be no time for holidays in the brave new world. A day trip to Blackpool or another seaside town was good enough for the commoners in Victorian times and so will be good enough again.

I live in a northern mill town. How are things going to improve for me and my friends ninfan? I’m especially thinking about the ones who work for a gym equipment importer who’s prices went up after brexit but who’s customers won’t stand the increase so the company is now working at a loss?

Mooman

Most of the remainers are not ignorant. Pretty much everything predicted by remain has happened.   Leave still cannot come up with a coherent plan and all their prediction have been shown to be bogus

You think the people in northern mill towns really care if you find it more difficult to spend a week in Provence?

I live in a northern milltown, and grew up on a council estate in an ex-mining village in Newcastle, and yet I managed to see past the dog-whistle politics of the right and their media collaborators. Clearly I am a class traitor. If that’s the case then I have no shame in being a bourgeoise bastard.

I live in a northern mill town. How are things going to improve for me and my friends ninfan?

Do you earn more than, or less than, the median wage?

how dare the savage proletariat attempt to undermine your bourgeois lifestyle at the risk of their own servitude

Voting themselves deeper into servitude doesn’t help them.

how dare the savage proletariat attempt to undermine your bourgeois lifestyle at the risk of their own servitude

It’s pretty miserable being poor. Voting to make yourself even more poor doesn’t exactly help matters

wait a minute did the EU close down the mills?

those cotton embargoing bastards!!!

Ninfan talking absolute grade A dog poop, please show us a single bit of evidence that UK manufacturing has declined because of EU membership?

Manufacturing output in real terms has been pretty good since we joined the EU (since 2008 not so much), productivity growth better than service sector even, but of course jobs have declined, its almost as if technology has completely changed the industry! (well that & st maggie turning us into a service economy)

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7617/economics/economic-growth-during-great-moderation/

In a way Ninfan highlights brilliantly the ignorance of brexiters, yearning to turn back the clock to a fantasy version of the world that can never exist again

& ironically its the manufacturers based in the former mill towns warning that they will be less competitive if we leave.

round of applause for ninny!

Do you earn more than, or less than, the median wage?

African or European?

and who loves Brexit and why?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/297v78a]IMG_1446[/url] by Mike Smith, on Flickr

You are using coconuts

I know plenty of people on less than median wage, but they still go on foreign holidays.  Often but not always Majorca or somewhere along those lines.

But Ninfan’s lost his argument anyway that’s why he can’t answer my questions.

Do you earn more than, or less than, the median wage?

Median and mean are poor measures there is a reason why modal wages are not published…

Also unless the wage is adjusted for location and living costs the comparison is even more pointless….

https://twitter.com/profbriancox/status/1018961197184544768?s=21

According to Twitter the Govt is putting in a motion to have summer recess early!

The government are literally dissolving Parliament to stop a leadership challenge against Theresa May, this is so wild https://t.co/1NxY34QkTV

— Owen Jones (@OwenJones84) July 16, 2018

According to Twitter the Govt is putting in a motion to have summer recess early!

Well its not like there is a lot on and what there is isnt very important.

It will allow them all to head down to Blackpool for their hols to see ninfan and those other working class types from the northern mill towns.

ninfans constant drivel about working class areas voting leave is shown up in the fact that EVERY constituency in Scotland voted remain. The coal field towns in Midlothian, Fife and Ayrshire, as well as former steel producing areas of Lanarkshire, or the largely declined microchip manufacturing region of West Lothian, or the ship yards of Govan are hardly havens of bourgeoisie, caramel latte sipping ”Loads a money!” decadence.

There are a lot of people for whom 2 weeks in Blackpool is their holiday. I stopped there briefly last summer with the family for the first time since I was a kid.and had a great time. Also the beach was spotless. I wonder how that was?

Not all working class areas in England voted leave. Some learnt a long time ago to see past the lies of the Murdoch press.

So Cougar you’re unwilling to compromise

I’m perfectly willing to compromise, as I explained in the rest of my post.  We presumably differ on the definition of “compromise.”

What the **** has Provence got to do with it?  Going abroad is a middle class thing is it?

Working class people go on **** holiday too you ****.

You know you’ve crossed a line when “why can’t we all just be lovely and respectful to each other and not be dicks” Molgrips makes this sort of post.  It’s like the mild-mannered geography teacher suddenly hurling a blackboard eraser at your head.

Its already become more democratic.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this please, @ninfan?  How has it become more democratic?  I don’t follow.

Crystal ball time…

May signs an exit deal after Xmas, which includes transition period, and a signed off Ireland back stop… using brinkmanship to get it through her party. The deal says that the future arrangement will either be a third country FTA, with carve outs for NI, or the whole of the UK operating in the SM. Neither is ruled out. Customs can kicked down the road, apart from Ireland backstop, which in itself is just a can kicking wheeze anyway. After we exit EU, and enter transition period, where we no longer have a seat at EU, no way back, and still have no agreement on future with it, the real shit starts to hit the fan… multiple leadship contests… a general election… a referendum to choose between two future relationships, neither of which even a significant minority of people feel they can support… all while the “selling out of the working man” narrative gets ramped up more and more, despite the UK no longer being a member of the EU.

Telll me I’m wrong.

Interesting that an argument about the destruction of manufacturing in the North rears its head here.

I need to remind some people on here that it was the will of a certain Mrs Thatcher that got that ball rolling and it was the best part of 40 years ago.

Thing is lots of us working class northern types fought very hard against Mrs Thatcher but we lost and more than that we were “ethnically cleansed – politically” as succesive governments including that **** Tony Blair said that greed was good.

So here we are the working poor (on less than median wage) blaming all their woes on the EU and support the very **** who laud Thatcher.

I am the epitomy of Northern Working class but i am not stupid enough to take the Rees Moggs at face value.

I have not been provided with any explanation of how Brexit will benefit the piss poor of this country.

The people that have engineered this, would not piss on the working class if they were on fire, they would warm their hands.

Absolutely. And it’s not the only example- scottish fishermen is another. A tory government decided to shaft them in order to support english nearshore fishermen that they thought were more likely to vote tory. They couldn’t even be bothered to do much to reduce the impact. And yet people blame the EU for the deal made by the UK, and put themselves on the same side as the exact sort of arseholes that shafted them in the first place and say Take Back Control so that it can be done again.