BBC reporting this morning that it needs to be stored at minus 80c, meaning you won’t be able to nip down to the surgery for your two shots. You will have to drive to a regional cryogenic facility, twice, ensuring you go at the right interval and get the right vaccine if others are available by then.

This will have to be organised for a significant part of the population next summer before winter 2021 sets in.

The vaccine, once out of deep freeze, has a fridge-life of five days, then a further six hours out of the fridge.

They’ll just use the current drive-through testing centres.
It would obviously be better if it didn’t need -80 storage, but it’s just another in a long line of hurdles for manufacture/distibution.
Hopefully they don’t entrust the tracking of who’s had/needs what jab and when to the work experience kid running Excel from 2008

In the big Covid thread it’s been mentioned that there are likely to be other effective vaccines along common soon after this one. Cheaper, potentially faster to manufacture and can be stored at more conventional temperatures. The speculation is that many of us on the UK (no doubt across the world) will end up having one of the other ones that come along. Without bringing politics into it, I’m just a bit concerned that the government we have is really up to something on this scale.

I’m sure the NHS will do it’s bloody best if given a chance to, that I am pretty sure of.

Let’s just hope this and other vaccines are effective. However, just knowing this one is on the horizon (fingers crossed) is still great news, to me anyway. Hopefully it’s just the first of many to come along.👍

The vaccine, once out of deep freeze, has a fridge-life of five days, then a further six hours out of the fridge.

This. It’s an issue for moving it around the country, not for delivering it the people who will be lucky enough to get it.

What I found odd was the reported 5000 doses a day to be given – that will take years to inoculate even a proportion of the population

Also Universities hold numerous -80 freezers, which could be used as local holding facilities. It’s certainly a challenge but I don’t think insurmountable.

Just sayin,’ like.

You can also use dry ice (-76C) to deliver store it. There is already a huge amount of scientific delivery done this way.

The patient will need to sit for 15 mins after having the vaccine. In current climate of distancing, that is a bigger logistical challenge than the storage issue.

There are going to be regional hubs with the correct cold storage in place, the vaccine itself will then be moved out from those hubs on a daily basis.

In most cases those hubs are yet to be built, but back in august it was known this would be a storage requirement of the vaccine, in fact back in August it was suggested it had to be even colder at – 120

You can also use dry ice (-76C) to deliver store it. There is already a huge amount of scientific delivery done this way.

Not so sure about that how do you maintain a constant temp, medicines management is t my direct area of expertise but medical fridges are not standard and have the temperature monitored very regularly to avoid even slight changes in temp.

BBC reporting this morning that it needs to be stored at minus 80c,

They’ve reported that since it was announced last week, it’s for transportation only. Once it is out of that temperature it will last 5 days in a fridge. They only need worry about the transportation side, which of course is not threatened at all by events coming up at the end of next month.

I am sure, given the roaring success of this government’s other covid responses, that there will be no hiccups with this whatsoever.

That’s ok, almost none of us will get vaccinated anyway

meaning you won’t be able to nip down to the surgery for your two shots. You will have to drive to a regional cryogenic facility, twice.

You’ll get the vaccine at your local GP, we’re the only people who’re used to giving mass vaccines. Once it’s made up, you can store it at normal fridge temps for up to 5 days. we can dose up to 900 people over 3 days and we’re a relatively small practice. I think a drive through system was looked at, but the parallel logistics are too difficult to set up in the time frame.

The patient will need to sit for 15 mins after having the vaccine.

Advice has changed, allowed to leave now, but advised not to drive for 15 mins after…This is the standard for the routine for the flu jab, although most folk aren’t told as it’s so rare.

Is think it will be fine, I expect someone in the private sector, maybe the wife or husband of a minister or Tory donor can rustle up a business to deliver it sharpish.
I imagine 12bn should do it, this seems to be the going rate for jobs like this.

it needs to be stored at minus 80c

Must have frozen chips in it…

The mice will eat your vaccine anyway OP, I wouldn’t worry about it.

I know of a dentist who is signed up to deliver the vaccine, she says that it will be administered in recipients homes, I guess this solves the waiting logistics….

Sounds like a whole new set of opportunities for cronies to set up and tender for super brass monkeys transport contracts. Millions to be made. 😀

I know of a dentist who is signed up to deliver the vaccine

huh, interesting, I thought the GDC were being “funny” about indemnity for dentists to administer it.

Some dentists already do minor cosmetic stuff like fillers and botox

The vaccine, once out of deep freeze, has a fridge-life of five days,

That’ll go well when it’ll be stuck in Kent for a fortnight.

It’s just not an issue, there’s nothing special about a -80 freezer, comes off regular power supply, no bigger than a domestic top loading freezer, needs monitoring but no more than the other fridges and freezers you might find in a GP or lab environment. There will be a cost to get them installed of course but you could easily put them at testing centres or a GP surgery. As said dry ice shipping is also very common practice and can be verified using a data logger in the box. Demand is easily going to outstrip supply to begin with so just shipping it on dry ice and storing at -10 for a day or two before slugging it into someone’s arm ought to be fine.

J
(6 years in life sciences)

Seeing as the NHS can get my wife live blood products, chilled at all times with short(ish) shelf life from USA on a monthly basis, I’m sure they’ve got the problem solving skills to make this happen.

+1 on there being other vaccines.

The patient will need to sit for 15 mins after having the vaccine. In current climate of distancing, that is a bigger logistical challenge than the storage issue.

But it’s not rocket science. Even if that was the case (and it seems it’s not…) even a basketball court sized space can hold 135 people at 2m spacing.

Allow room for walkways and it’s still ~75.

75 people every 15 minutes suggests ‘sitting’ would still not be the logistical bottleneck.

Not to say it won’t be tough, just that we should throw our hands up at this crucial task being a hard one.

It is usual for vaccine’s tube stored at very low temperatures so whether -80 or -40 is not a big deal here. The logistics of getting 40 million people vaccinated are another matter…

-80 isn’t that cold.

Also as above it’s one of many vaccines, this 1st one will be used by such a small percentage of the population I don’t see any logistic issues

am sure, given the roaring success of this government’s other covid responses, that there will be no hiccups with this whatsoever.

Agreed. They’ll get Typhoid Dildo to sort it out. What could possibly go wrong…

We’ve been told to start planning at work for our dry ice supply (or anything shipped to us on dry ice) to go out the window, which is going to be a major ball ache.

…though this thread is confusing. It was reported everywhere I saw as an RNA vaccine requiring -80 shipment from day one.

I can’t speak for other parts of the country but when I got my ‘flu jab earlier this year it was done in a school gym hall and they were getting through a lot of people with no issues regarding social distancing. Granted this will be bigger than the ‘flu distribution but I would think that using other school halls, local authority gyms etc would be the best way to get through a lot of people. I can’t imagine that it will be getting done in GP practices, at least not in towns and cities.

Some dentists already do minor cosmetic stuff like fillers and botox

Is this vaccine administered in the face? Weird, but I suppose if it works…

Typhoid Dildo

Anne Summers’ worst selling product of 1905

Granted this will be bigger than the ‘flu distribution

It won’t be, similar number and target audience.

The breakthrough Ebola vaccine is -80 stored too. Half a million doses given in central Africa. Also, if the logistics were only half as good as Amazon Prime, they could get from factory to clinic quick enough to never need -80.

I work in a research facility in a large hospital. As I understand it, our lab is one of the only places on site with -80 freezers so I’m imagining our freezers may get commandeered by the NHS IF the Pfizer vaccine comes to readiness first. I’m not sure how easy it will be to manufacture extra -80 freezers at short-notice – they’re pretty niche items, and I’m not sure you can just make normal freezers and turn up the power.

The Oxford / AZ vaccine is supposedly more stable and doesn’t require the -80 storage so if that proves effective it should be significantly easier to roll out.

On the subject of social distancing, the model may be that you drive / get driven up to a tent outside the hospital, stick your arm out and get jabbed through the window.

-80c is not really the big deal everytine thinks it is.
Every hospital has this type of cooling on their NMR machines.
It is feasible that smaller collers could be installed in the larger docs surgeries.
Physics is best summarised here: https://cryogenicsociety.org/resources/defining_cryogenics/stirling_and_gifford-mcmahon_cryocoolers/

Buy one here https://www.arscryo.com/closed-cycle-cryocoolers

And just google ‘cryocooler for sale’ there are many many providers.
There is a whole world of cryogenics out there that many of you are unlikely to know about, but its there and burgeoning.

The Oxford / AZ vaccine is supposedly more stable and doesn’t require the -80 storage so if that proves effective it should be significantly easier to roll out.

AZD should be OK refrigerated or in a – 20 freezer, Moderna is RNA tho so that’s – 80 too

-80 freezers aren’t that expensive & we receive samples on dry ice on a daily basis in work

OK for the UK, but not easy in developing world

commandeered by the NHS IF the Pfizer vaccine comes to readiness first

Sigh.😩

Some member of the Tory party will ensure that one of his chums at a logistics giant gets the contract to manage Just in Time delivery of these things, outside of the NHS and it’ll be a huge success. Just look how well it worked out for KFC… 😜