Been thinking about this for a while but where does the
expense of entry for an enduro race come from. Rumour says
that it comes from insurance costs but are they not the same
as what would occur from running a dh race where a sunday
race only would cost approx £30. Perhaps it comes from
the extra timing involved due to multiple stages?. Anybody
got any insight into this?

One day enduro races cost about £40 don’t they?

I’d be asking why DH races are so expensive instead, considering you only get one track.

On site for 3 days, all the same costs of any other race weekend like DH except the uplift. 5x the race course, 5x the timing efforts, insurance, marshalls.

Anyway same as last time it came up 10 pages, people will reckon it should be £3.50.

The acid test is set one up and run it, account your time to organise it all and work out your hourly rate for all that.

If anyone see’s the organisers driving round in new sports cars let me know 😉

Last time i did a downhill race..about 10 years ago i stopped racing as it was too pricy it was 70 quid…..

Timewarp anyone ?

SDA DH race £75 one track
SES Endooro race £50 4-5 tracks

Breakdown for the DH race here:
http://www.sda-races.com/entries.html

Part of the problem is (IMO) the lack of any kind of club structure in MTB. In Sailing and road cycling races cost peanuts in comparison as clubs chip voulenter labour to run races.

Part of the problem is (IMO) the lack of any kind of club structure in MTB.

There is a club structure here in Oz, it does deliver some good cheap races, but it also burns out and kills off the good will of the few who stand up and put their time into organising stuff. There is also a serious amount of professionally run races that attract decent numbers because they offer something that the clubs can’t which is the time to organise events and put on the tougher and more complex things.

timing systems are quite expensive as well.

Timing
Online entry
Insurance
Medics (£450 per day for decent ones)
Course tape and signage
Days of work to plan and prepare
Catering
Car parking
FC permits and rider charge
Radio comms
Marshals

This:

Timing Around 3x or 4x more than DH event
Online entry Same as DH event
Insurance Bit more than DH event
Medics Around 2x or 3x more than DH event depending on length and location of track
Course tape and signage Around 3x more than DH event
Days of work to plan and prepare Around 3x more than DH event
Catering Same as DH event
Car parking Same as DH event
FC permits and rider charge Depends on how may land owners there are but I could be alot
Radio comms Around 2x or 3x more than DH event depending on length and location of track
Marshals Around 2x or 3x more than DH event depending on length and location of track

Also add to the list zero support from the governing body.

Sorry, but having organised and controlled budgets for both DH and Enduro events I call BS.

Timing 3x the price of a DH event ? Who does your timing ? Swarovski ?

And anyway, I think the question should be – how much is it to organise a DH or Enduro event properly and safely ? There will be a wide variation in the amounts of money spent in proportion to the amount the organiser actually cares about the safety and enjoyment of the participants and the safety and enjoyment of their wallet.

It’s the wild west out there for Enduro at the moment…. there is no governing body for Enduro so I am not sure you can cry “no support” that’s like moaning Jesus didn’t turn up for his birthday celebrations.

erm but BC have pulled out of enduro so they therefore offer no support!?!?

and 3x timing seems underestimate, at ukge this weekend 5 stages with their own start and finish sensors, plus radio link for the data, plus manual backup spread out over a 36 koop!
not to mention marshalls and paramedics at each stage

its also worth noting that scott organises both DH and enduro events at QECP

Then you are spending too much. I remember the early days when (sorry Steve) UKGE couldn’t get the timing right to save their lives no matter how much money was thrown at it, and based it on a DH mentality of zillionth of a second result. This far into the progression of the sport there should be no need for a manual/paper back-up.

erm but BC have pulled out of enduro so they therefore offer no support!?!?

What was their support before they went?
Doesn’t seem to be harming the growth.

Cost argument in reality just comes back to punters thinking that the organisers should work for free.

yeah early days timing was dodgy, was very frustrating, I remember seeing the timing guys getting very drunk the nightb4 the race at Dyfi a few years ago and making a right balls up of the timing!
Its been a problem at every series ive raced at- ukge, minienduro, enduro1, except for the QECP ones, always slick there!

the BC comissaires could also be a problem as they didnt seem to understand the transition times concept and awarded penalties erratically

fortunately things seem much more reliable these days (its possible they dont have paper backups afaik but i cant see how its a bad thing

This far into the progression of the sport there should be no need for a manual/paper back-up.

sounds like hubris to me

bc used to supply the comissaires (sp?) and some banners at the arena, not sure what else?

tbh the sport seems to be growing very well without BC and a much more relevant Enduro Fed will hopefully be set up for 2016
I dont really blame BC for dumping enduro, its a niche sport within a niche sport and other aspects are far more popular, Road and Track racing etc are hugely popular and even BMX is an olympic sport, there wasnt even an EWS 3 years ago, They have had an admirable involvement in DH but it seems that enduro is very hard to regulate, even looking at their helmet rules for DH shows that they dont fully understand it (not that UCI are any better)

yeah early days timing was dodgy, was very frustrating, I remember seeing the timing guys getting very drunk the nightb4 the race at Dyfi a few years ago and making a right balls up of the timing!
Its been a problem at every series ive raced at- ukge, minienduro, enduro1, except for the QECP ones, always slick there!

This might not help the price is worth it side of the argument….

To be fair, I’ve not had any problems at any of the ukges or enduro1s I’ve ridden in the last couple of years which is 10 or so races (I’ve stopped doing minienduro s because of the timing issues and vfm)

It was nice to do a test event here in Tas and the timing be spot on, mech hanger wasn’t as good.

If you want reliable timing, I think it helps to have an MC.

hels – Member

Sorry, but having organised and controlled budgets for both DH and Enduro events I call BS.

Timing 3x the price of a DH event ? Who does your timing ? Swarovski ?

Sorry Hels but this is what it costs if you want to provide accurate and reliable timing.

Every area/race is different but for us:
DH race timing would cost £600 for a single day and single track.
Enduro race timing would cost around £2000 for single day and 4 stages.

In the past we have done the timing of our enduro’s for much cheaper.
£0 in fact. But the homemade system was not slick, waiting for results at the end etc…

The new timing system costs around £10 a rider, we put the price up by £5. Now running at £40 per one day race (4 Stages).

People are happy to pay a extra £5 for a better service. One of the main positive feedbacks we got from our last race was the timing system was great.

Having thought about and talked about it for timing you would be aiming for at least some cross over with gear and crews so it doesn’t need to be 5 or 6 times a dh but the timing people do need to earn their cash. I’d take decent matt timing with fixed starts over laser start and finish, you don’t need the start like a dh as people leave on the go. So long as it’s the same for all its good.

except for the QECP ones, always slick there!

Oops! (night before the 2014 QECP Day & Night enduro)

[url=https://flic.kr/p/vmzccc]Untitled[/url] by Southern Enduro / QECP Trail Collective, on Flickr

There are now 2 timing companies doing ‘most’ of the races in the UK now. This was not the case 2 years ago. Both are very good and going forward should not have any issues.
UKGE, Mini enduro’s & WGES all the one.
SES, QECP, PMBA, WES,Enduro1, Redkite, Tweedlove/EWS use the other.

Sorry for all the acronyms.

People are happy to pay a extra £5 for a better service. One of the main positive feedbacks we got from our last race was the timing system was great.

I’ll give you a big thumbs up for that, and go so far as to say it’s significantly better than the system the UKGE use, as it’s actually live for all stages, and complete at the point of handing your wrist strap back.

Everyone should use it.

Everyone should use it.

With my racer hat on I agree! It was great to uses it at the lee quarry/cock hill PMBA enduro.
I Have not done a UKGE this year yet but I’m doing the UKGE champs in 3 weeks and look forward to seeing the new timing in action.

Timing cost depends on what you want.
It can be done for a few pound per rider assuming a reasonable number of entrants, but when you start to want better accuracy and live results, cost starts to go up quite substantially. Plus you also need to factor in if you need to pay for somebody to run the system.

I’ve seen and used various systems, so I have a pretty good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of them.

Having said that, the one thing that stands out, is I’ve yet to see an enduro win come down to split seconds. The nearest I’ve personally seen is a tie for 3rd when only second accuracy was used, so it does question the actual need for split second timing.

but is split second timing any cheaper than whole second timing? does that even exist?

In a nutshell, no.

The basic system that can only provide timing to the nearest second is cheaper, and is one of the easiest systems to use from a timing/organiser viewpoint.
In order to go to split second, things start to get more complicated, but how complicated depends on the system in question.

Mc the buget system is a pain in the arse for the organiser.
Edit: sorry I’m talking about our old system