I’ve been on flat pedals and shoes (Northwave Clan & Burgtec Penthouse mk5) for the past 2 years – since June 2019, and prior to that I spent 1 year using Shimano SPD/XC clipless (m540 pedals) so zero shoe contact apart from the cleats (started MTB again after a 15+ year gap in May 2018). I still use the XC SPD’s when gravel riding so fairly used to unclipping, and I use road shoes and cleats on my zwift bike.

I changed to flats to give me confidence riding steeper stuff that I was comfortable with, allowing me to bail easily when needed. Now though, my riding has come on a lot and I rarely need the security blanket of flats. I’d still use them on the proper steep stuff though.

So, having never used a combination that I’m looking at, like crank bros Mallet E pedals and Northwave Enduro mid 2 shoes:

Just how good are they? Do you have decent grip on the pedal if you’re not clipped in? I’d welcome a bit more pedalling efficiency and bike control which the clipless combo would give me.

All feedback welcome before I drop £200+ on another pair of cycling shoes/pedals 😁🤣

Can any clipless pedal/shoe combo be really any good when you’re not clipped in? I’m skeptical, but then you are always clipped in or briefly in the process of clipping back in. The worst combinations for me are those that have not been a straight and error-free click back in, and only really on those have I had situations where I thought one was much better (well, less bad) than another in unclipped use. Partly because of this, I do like the idea that pedal and shoe both came from the same manufacturer (shimano for me). I found 5:10/Nukeproof combo was a bit less easy to get in, although they do have a very flat pedal like platform. Too many years since I’ve tried Crank Bros.

THat’s why you should run Flats 🙂

I don’t think those pedals would ride well when not clipped in. The mechanism sticks out too much, and you’d end up clipped in. I ride one sided pedals – flat on one side, SPDs on the other – Funn Mamba One and some O’Neal Pinned SPD shoes. They grip well without being clipped in, then you can spin them and clip in very easily. I actually find its the best of both.

Look for some second hand Mallet’s on Pinkbike, there’s always someone who’s tried clips and almost immediately given up and selling them for <£50.

Those shoes look quite good but it’s difficult to know how they’ll work. Some shoes can have too much grip (5.10’s) which means you have to wind the pins right in and thus sacrifice grip when you’re unclipped. I think slightly flexible enduro style shoes are best and then play around with pin height/cleat spacers and the CB pedal spacer things to get the best feel.

I have exactly that combination just in a different colour. I had to wind the pins in completly as I couldn’t twist to get unclipped if the pins were up. Also getting clipped back in was also hard work if the pins were on show at all.

You just can’t ride properly on clips. The cleats would need to be in the arch to weight properly round corners,

Tbh I’d even consider the Mallet DH pedals, quite a few reviews say there’s enough grip for those times when you’re not clipped in, enough to get you to the next section where you can clip back in, at least.

Oh dear, an argument about whether clips or flats are better…..

I wear Shimano ME7 which work well with Mallet DH/E

I changed to flats to give me confidence riding steeper stuff that I was comfortable with, allowing me to bail easily when needed.

I did the same about 12 years ago, still not got round to going back to clips.

😀

Gonna try my old Time Atac Freeriders again soon though, and if it goes well I’ll probably look at Shimano or Nukeproof’s offerings.

I don’t think those shoes would play nicely with big platform spds that have pins on them.

I’ve got Nukeproof Horizons which I really like (I frequently change between flats and spds depending on what I dns y using) but they didn’t play nicely with shoes that have big chunky knobs on. It made clicking in and out harder.

I ended up with Shimano AM7s which look more like flat pedal shoe soles with spd cleats on them. They work perfectly.

So by all means go for Mallets, but I’d look for some different shoes.

I’m in a similar position of switching back to clipless.
I’ve gone for the Nukeproof Horizon DH pedal and Endura MT500 shoes – with a cleat spacer as reviews of the shoes said they have a quite deep groove where the cleat sits.

I previously had Shimano M530 pedals & AM7 shoes – never felt comfortable with not having much support on the rest of the pedal. Now on my Gravel/Commuter bike where they feel better.

I prefer the Mallet DH over the ‘E’ as I have size 12 lumps and the platform is larger. I have them on all bikes.
As already mentioned, pins get wound in to make clip in/out work better.
Riding clipped out is really an ’emergency’ only as you end up riding with the pedals further back under the shoe (to stop them clipping in).

You just can’t ride properly on clips. The cleats would need to be in the arch to weight properly round corners,

When you say “you” do you mean the middle aged folk sitting behind desks, or are you also including the vast majority of the worlds fastest riders?

My understanding of the Mallets is the mechanism can be clipped into from different angles, where as SPD needs front edge of the cleat first, so if you have the mallets, how would you not clip in when you can enter them from any angle?

I wouldnt touch the crank brothers ones because if you clip a rock with the underside of the pedal the mechanism releases the shoe from the cleat so you end up with a foot flapping around.

Im a shimano pedal fan and use their shoes. I do this for 2 reasons 1 is preference but the other is I like to think that Shimano shoe and pedal designers work together and in theory should have the best interface between them that when a pedal and shoe are made by different companies. This may just be wishful thinking on my part though 🙂

I have exactly that combination just in a different colour. I had to wind the pins in completly as I couldn’t twist to get unclipped if the pins were up. Also getting clipped back in was also hard work if the pins were on show at all.

Interesting – I’d definitely want pins up for the unclipped grip (breathing in mind I’m talking about 10 seconds of riding with the shoe ‘somewhere’ on the pedal until there’s time to clip back in).

Oh dear, an argument about whether clips or flats are better…..

Yeah I’m hoping it doesn’t descend into this… 🤣 They’re both great and have advantages but there’s a reason why pretty much every professional DH or Enduro racer uses clips. Whether that matters for us mere mortals is another thread… 😁

I don’t think those shoes would play nicely with big platform spds that have pins on them.

I’ve got Nukeproof Horizons which I really like (I frequently change between flats and spds depending on what I dns y using) but they didn’t play nicely with shoes that have big chunky knobs on. It made clicking in and out harder.

I see your point – I think the big grippy knobs would be outside the person area though? The flat pedal sole section is where the pedal pins would contact. Maybe…

Edit: this is where my pedal sits on my flats (size 11) so with similar cleat placement I don’t think the pedal platform would get near the raised tread when clipped in

I found that the pins made it harder to unclip especially in hurry as they are digging into the sole of the shoe.

For me the right combo is XT trail with AM9 shoes although that might change or ME7’s next time for a bit better pedalling performance

Riding clipped out is really an ’emergency’ only as you end up riding with the pedals further back under the shoe (to stop them clipping in).

That’s exactly what I mean when I say riding clipped out – only when completely necessary and then only for a short time.

With m540 pedals and an XC shoe there’s absolutely zero grip at all when not clipped in.

I considered those shoes but reviews pushed me to Shimano ME7s instead which are bloody lovely – stiff sole like reviews say but still manages to avoid heel lift when walking/pushing up.

I also considered platform-type SPDs as a halfway/emergency option but was too skeptical of them providing any meaningful support to drop £££ on a pair. Currently using Shimano M530s with that basic metal cage around them – possibly provides marginally more of a surface when unclipped compared to traditional SPDs like M520s or M540s.

I’m 100% SPDs on trail bike but 50/50 on my Geometron depending on riding location. Not yet got the bottle to ride steep stuff like Golfie etc clipped in so it’s flats for that sort of use for me.

but 50/50 on my Geometron depending on riding location. Not yet go the bottle to ride steep stuff like Golfie etc clipped in so it’s flats for that sort of use for me.

I’d be doing exactly this – local stuff, lakes/peaks fast open rocky stuff/big days in the mountains I’d be on clipless but I’d be straight back onto the flats for any scottish enduro steepness!

I’ll have a look on shoes in combo with the malllets, I was erring towards the Northwave as I know the sizing on them and my current NW shoes have been brilliant and stood up to everything I’ve thrown at them. But happy to change. There’s too much choice though!

The advantage of Shimano AM7 + 9etc is the whole midsole is one piece of plastic so if the cleat slots are too far forward than you want you can drill/dremnel the slots further back to simulate flat pedal placement. Just listen to Fabien talk about Clipless cleat placement

I tried it with my 5Ten Greg Minnaar and they didn’t have enough plastic.

I’ve tried both (spent a solid year riding DH/Trail/Enduro on SPDs to give them a proper trial) and settled on flats as the shoes were wider and I was pretty much the same speed up or down on both.

I preferred Shimano SPD pedals (DX and XT) as I didn’t like the fact that CB mallets seemed a bit more vague when clipping in and out) but in my opinion the platform is more there for comfort/support as they all aren’t great to stand on unclipped. Ok in an emergency unclip, etc but not to be relied on.

Also anything other than the shortest pins were just annoying.

I see your point – I think the big grippy knobs would be outside the person area though? The flat pedal sole section is where the pedal pins would contact. Maybe…

Someone above said they had the exact same combination you mention and they have to have all the pins wound in otherwise it’s difficult to clip in and out. Which says my thoughts are probably right – you want a show with a more flat style sole.

On my horizons I have the pins out for the most part so if I fail to click in on a rocky section I’ve got something to grip the shoe until I can click in. Although they click in and out really nicely as ok g as you use the Nukeproof cleats. Shimano cleats do work but I found they’re harder to get clicked in with.

I run those pedals on my little bike & Mallet DH’s on my bigger bikes.

They have ‘some platform to stand on if you are unclipped going into something, but I wouldn’t consider it ideal, in any circumstances. Same for the Mallet DH, although they are better for sure, as the platform is quite a bit bigger.

I don’t use those shoes though, I use the CB Mallet shoe. On all my pedals, the pins are ~1mm out. No issues clipping in or out, and I was one of the most hardened ‘flat pedals for life’ riders.

*May still revert back to them in the depths of winter 😆

Someone above said they had the exact same combination you mention and they have to have all the pins wound in otherwise it’s difficult to clip in and out. Which says my thoughts are probably right – you want a show with a more flat style sole.

True, however the traction pads and the general pin height also seem to make a difference to bring able to clip in or out.

Horizon CL pedals are another option to the crank bros though, added to the list!

@johnjn2000 if you’ve got a pic of the soles of those shoes when clipped in that would be a massive help. Also what size shoe?

Will get a photo at some point this evening and pop it on here

You’ve got big feet, so if you buy Mallet E’s choose the wide spindle model.
For the Northwave shoes get some extra shims. My daughter’s using this combination and they wouldn’t engage very easily without them.

Went through this a bit recently too. Historically have always run flats on my big bike for anything other than the odd XC ride. However my Rocket Max is so stable, even on proper steep stuff and it feels really natural to lean hard on the front wheel and then flick the back end about with my feet that I find myself riding more and more in clips. Plus being a runt and accelerating a big travel 29er with hefty wheels is much easier when I can apply power through the whole stoke (or at least more of it).

Alps, Golfy trips, local steep cheeky stuff have all been clipped in this summer and I’ve not missed flats at all. I’ll still probably go flats when it gets properly miserable out i winter though.

Pedals were easy – Shimano XT Trails. Shoes – my old Giro Terraduros were excellent, but they wore out. Spesh Recon 3.0 – rubbish. The cleat protruded from the sole and it felt like I was standing on ice cubes; also a bit of tread stud just in front of the cleat area that it was too easy to get hooked on – they’ve been relegated to the gravel bike now. Shimano AM9 for me currently, which feel pretty good. They definitely contact the cage of the pedal for extra stability and it seems to be really easy to find the cleat first time when clipping back in. Not quite as nice a fit as the Terraduros though. They’re a bit suboptimal if you end up missing the cleat, but no clip shoe is, and they’re nowhere near as bad as a more typical XC shoe.

You’ve got big feet, so if you buy Mallet E’s choose the wide spindle model.
For the Northwave shoes get some extra shims. My daughter’s using this combination and they wouldn’t engage very easily without them.

Cheers – yeah would definitely go for the LS version, I’m also duck footed so need the extra width for my heels.

Will get a photo at some point this evening and pop it on here

Awesome, cheers!

I’ve got mallet e and they are fine when not clipped in. The only time I ride like that is if I need to dab on a climb/technical bit or stuck a foot out Rossi style for a fast corner.
I now ride crank bros shoes and the cleat slots have a “race” position which is quite far back, but yes good for steep techie bits.

I wear Shimano ME7 which work well with Mallet DH/E

Same here, previously used AM9’S and prefer the stiffer sole of the ME7’s. They are a bit of faff when new (mallet dh) as the pin height affects clipping in and out,
definitely worth spending a bit of time on the initial setup before hitting anything remotely technical

Last shoes were Northwave Enduro Mid. There were ok while they lasted.

The mesh wears through but the main issue was the sole cracked at the front bit between the slots.

Now on ME7’s, still with Nukeproof Horizon CL.

Totally get why you’d want clipless when racing enduro but for regular riding, I’d rather have the ability to bail or put a foot down without the worry of unclipping first.

I ride clipless on the road, gravel and xc/marathon bikes for efficiency. Flats on my singlspeed and hard tail. No issue moving between bikes other than the usual getting use to the different geometry and riding position.

Just ride with what’ve got if you’re just riding for fun, especially if it’s going to cost you £200 for clipless.

Here you go @ta11pau1 as you can see from the side and back view there is no room for pins. On the front you could have a row as there is some space there between pedal and shoe.

Cheers @johnjn2000 yeah that does look pretty tight! Have you got any shims under the cleats?

@ta11pau1, yes. Without them I struggled to get clipped in at all.

Comes to thread for a perusal…leaves £123 poorer with ME7 ordered
Standard stuff 👌

I run ME7 shoes with Mallet E.
pins slightly out and single plastic shim.
No issues clipping out.

The platform doesn’t really give a great place to put your foot unclipped as the spring mechanism sticks up but it gives a great target for your foot when you are concentrating on the trail ahead and I find that the CB pedals/ cleats just mesh really easily as you can go in front or back.
I feel it takes less effort to get your foot in the right position than flats and the amount of float gives great foot/ankle movement when riding.

The whole idea of ‘flat’ or ‘platform’ SPD pedals just seems dumb to me. Shimano have it right – a cage to protect the mechanism so you don’t get knocked out as much, but the platform is the carbon plate in the shoe.

There is no need for any more transfer than the pedal cleat interface any more than you magically need a wider pedal spindle. The interface is your foot to the shoe.

Similarly, what you want is easy of entry and exit; if you don’t care about ease of entry you’ve never had to get clipped in half way down a loose rocky chute :-).

ME7s are the best big mountain SPD shoes. This is because you can actually hike a bike well in them, unlike ‘faux-flats’ where you’re sliding about on grass like you’re in climbing shoes. They are plated heel to cleat position, but flex at the toe. Those northwaves look ok but they’re also 150g heavier than the shimanos.

The only issue with them is durability. I’ve had to rebuild the sole about 4 times as it tears itself apart doing hike a bikes on rocky ground. Pretty sure my pair are now at least 30% gorilla glue.

As to cleats on big steep days (say lakes tech) – actually I find they give you the confidence to pile through tricky sections because you don’t have to worry about getting knocked about, especially if you’re going fast – you and the bike become a single unit. Flats are much harder.

Shimano have it right – a cage to protect the mechanism so you don’t get knocked out as much, but the platform is the carbon plate in the shoe.

There is no need for any more transfer than the pedal cleat interface any more than you magically need a wider pedal spindle. The interface is your foot to the shoe.

Similarly, what you want is easy of entry and exit; if you don’t care about ease of entry you’ve never had to get clipped in half way down a loose rocky chute :-).

+1 this for me, mostly. I have the bigger nukeproofs and some Saints on a DH bike but Shimano XTs have taken the place of the Nukeproofs for everything short of a DH bike. The platform just didn’t add much for me and it affected my clip-back-inability. If they fitted my feet I’d have ME7s for the same reasons as above, but I’ve got AM9 feet and they’re OK too.

As for ease of exit in an emergency, my view is it ceases to be an issue once you’re used to SPDs in tech. It’s either just automatic or the forces concerned unclip you without a rotation. Certainly I hardly know I’m doing it. It’s only really with a road/XC setup and in a more slow paced situation where it feels like a deliberate action. And others have said I have mine set fairly tight, so I don’t think it’s that.

NB, also the Nukeproof bindings wear much quicker than Shimano, albeit they’re rebuildable. Shimano pedal durability is a big factor for me.

The idea of switching to flats just for the techy steeps runs contrary to my feelings about the pros and cons of SPDs. If I was a flats rider on that stuff I think I’d be a flats rider at home too. But each to their own. I think you’re either a flats or clips rider – I’m a clips rider. This isn’t to say I have an opinion that one is better than the other – I don’t. it’s just what I’m used to. I’m OK on flats but when the riding is harder, more than anything I just want to be on what I know.