I think he will have less money than you think and I thought there was less money floating around in the sport back then.

Err…..because Rossi made tens of millions whilst old dogs like Nico have to make a living by moving over to enduro to make themselves relevant to marketing departments.

What about ‘old dogs’ like Peaty and Minnaar? Even Gee Atherton has been around for a few years now?

Ha, I doubt Nico is short of money, being the most winningest DH rider of all time in an era when they got paid a lot of money to race DH.

Not to mention being the IRC rally champion after getting bored of DH.

It does seem that DHers go to Enduro though, rather than tother way like in Moto2/MotoGP

I think he will have less money than you think and I thought there was less money floating around in the sport back then.

not in the nico vs peaty vs palmer era, $300,000 salaries not unheard of

Yeah, did this part of the conversation not start out with the idea of enduro as a downhill feeder? I really don’t see it… Don’t really see it happening the other way round either, yeah you get people swapping from dh to enduro but they’re not stopping dh to do enduro- they’re stopping dh because they’re old or otherwise done with it, then doing enduro.

Or in some cases, just doing everything because they’re riding gods 😉

I think Gee is on silly money but imo DHers going to enduro is similar to ex moto gp riders retiring to superbikes. Dan Atherton could never cut it in DH so he’s had to move to enduro after 4x went tits up.

There are some young enduro riders who look like they will jump across to DH.

The two bikes that won last weekends EWS race were pretty normal trail bikes.
Tracy Mosley’s Trek is hardly a DH bike with 29er wheels and steepish angles.And Graves won on a SB66.

Geometry is evolving and 140mm trail bikes such as the Foxy have 66.5 degree head angles that were once the realms of DH bikes

Coming back to the original question… Enduro bikes slowly turning into freeride bikes?

I agree with Tomaso, the bikes haven’t turned from one thing into another, just the marketing used by the industry. Bikes have constantly evolved over the 20yrs I’ve been riding with technological developments, new composite materials and the trickle down of the high end stuff.

If you ride an “Enduro” event on your three year old weekend trail bike, enjoy it, and do well within your ability and fitness range, then isn’t it a perfectly fine Enduro bike for you??

As Tomaso said, with the mens being won on a Yeti SB66 and women’s on a Trek Remedy 29 it sounds like the bikes most of us rag around the woods on with our mates every weekend are all we’d need anyway.

Its the new GSpot! Great bike IMHO. Don’t you really think that riding in general is morphing into downhill lite? We regularly ride old DH courses and how many “XC” riders now ride DH tracks, for example at inners? I am also seeing the due hard off roadies out here starting to ride techy singletrack. I think the evolution in bikes is driving it, for example XC FS bikes are so capable people are redefining their limits.

Out here enduro is giving a middle ground and the off-roadies and dh’ers are all moving towards it. It’s fantastic because previously overgrown tracks are being used and there are do many new tracks getting built.

tomaso – Member

Tracy Mosley’s Trek is hardly a DH bike with 29er wheels and steepish angles.

67.5 for a 29er isn’t steepish

Its the new GSpot! Great bike IMHO. Don’t you really think that riding in general is morphing into downhill lite? We regularly ride old DH courses and how many “XC” riders now ride DH tracks, for example at inners? I am also seeing the due hard off roadies out here starting to ride techy singletrack. I think the evolution in bikes is driving it, for example XC FS bikes are so capable people are redefining their limits.

Out here enduro is giving a middle ground and the off-roadies and dh’ers are all moving towards it. It’s fantastic because previously overgrown tracks are being used and there are do many new tracks getting built.

It’s weird how it’s merging towards a middle ground. The guys I ride with started out as bridleway bashers with a 4hr circular route covering 30 miles being a normal ride. Now their trail bikes can do so much more its become a search to puts routes together that focus on the tricky, technical descents with ascents just a necessary evil. Shorter rides in terms of length and distance that fit into their family lives better but are higher on adrenaline.

At the other end of bike riding 160mm+ travel bike now ride uphill pretty well, its almost a pleasure. I can see this crowd all switching to longer travel bikes sooner rather than later.

I guess enduro riding is just an a more colourful, competitive version of what a lot people just consider mtbing to be these days.

Northwind – Member
67.5 for a 29er isn’t steepish

But its not a 63 degree Mondraker Summum slack monster either.

Yep. But all the point I’m making there is that the Remedy in particular’s not a steep bike, it’s one of the slacker 29ers. (remember the greater trail of a 29er means that in some ways they behave like they’re slacker) Obviously it’s not a downhill bike.

When Aaron Gwin’s winning a downhill world cup round on an Enduro, is it a downhill bike? 😉

I guess enduro riding is just an a more colourful, competitive version of what a lot people just consider mtbing to be these days.

Last five years at least, but yes.

When Aaron Gwin’s winning a downhill world cup round on an Enduro, is it a downhill bike?

Nope, it’s just a bike being ridden in a DH event. Too many people seem to care right now about whether a particular bike and it’s wheel size, geometry etc make it right for a certain type of event. Who cares? … the international bike authorities maybe as they’re hung up on rules and tradition, the bike brands definitely as it’s in their interest to sell bikes, but aren’t we as riders beyond all this by now?? It looks to me that Enduro style events are giving talented and fit all round riders a fighting chance of doing well, and the bikes they’re riding well are the same bikes many of us mortals ride every weekend.

At the other end of bike riding 160mm+ travel bike now ride uphill pretty well, its almost a pleasure. I can see this crowd all switching to longer travel bikes sooner rather than later.

Exactly, the 160+ bikes with slack angles which are ‘too downhill/freeride orientated’ actual climb uphill better than many of the older trail bikes for the whole freeride period. They are lighter,accelerate/pedal better and are more planted. What’s not to like?

Exactly, the 160+ bikes with slack angles which are ‘too downhill/freeride orientated’ actual climb uphill better than many of the older trail bikes for the whole freeride period

This, my nomad climbs almost as well as a 5010 of the same vintage, yet its ‘too slack with too much travel to ride uphill’. Apparently.

Tom_W1987 – Member

Dan Atherton could never cut it in DH so he’s had to move to enduro after 4x went tits up

And yet over in enduro, current world cup riders have tried and failed to compete- just one example, Affy beat Greg Minaar by something like 30 places in Punta Ala, and a whole stack of other current dh competitors. It’s not just “downhill light” or an easier option, it’s a pretty different discipline with a different skillset that seems to suit him better than downhill did.

If you look at it solely from numbers you’ll find that “Freeride” bikes were GENERALLY heavier, with steeper head angles, slacker seat post, angles taller stand over and shorter wheel bases. And emphasis was on absorbing big hits rather than pedalling ability.
Apart from increasing the travel to match the bigger more gravity orientated (often) Alpine tracks the new longer travel bikes are worlds apart. The Enduro race series’ here in the UK tend to be on smaller tracks so a lighter short travel bike can make sense. Although bikes like the Capra are light, pedal well and long travel so they’re probably good for them as well. Santa Cruz admit that the Nomad is for the bigger gravity orientated races/tracks and reckon the Bronson is better suited to things like the UK has.

But as said before buy the bike you like that you think is best for your riding. Don’t buy a bike based on 2 weeks annual holiday.
And rejoice in the fact that we have 170-180mm bikes that pedal well. I remember a time when forks were so crap some hardtails sucked to pedal!
Tom KP.

Not heard enduro as being a feeder series for dh. Dh feeder would be the junior wc series.

Maybe a retirement sport for a few dh’ers but it has its own following too.

Never got free ride bikes. Shit at going up, pretty shit at going down. Compromised in every way… There was this free ride thing like nwd films showed but that never really caught on here.

This new generation of bikes are far more superior.

4 realz?

http://www.konaworld.com/entourage.cfm
http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3272#tab-reiter2
http://www.yt-industries.com/shop/en/Bikes/Gravity/Noton-2.0-Comp
http://www.commencal-store.co.uk/PBSCProduct.asp?ItmID=12501812

etc

– Entourage is listed as a “Gravity” bike with a DH frame but a loose reference to “freeride fun” in the description…
– Canyon make no reference to “freeride” but “for DH and pike park use”
– Commencal has “FR” in the name but that’s a hangover from when “Freeride” was a cool term. They describe it as “Made for bike Park but ready to shred with no problems”. No reference to “freeride” in the description.
– YT is a rare one actually describing the bike as for “freeride” but they can get away with being so far behind the times with marketing due to the specs the roll out 😀

Point is, it is all just marketing words and people think “Enduro” is cool but “freeride” is hucking to flat on a steep, heavy, high BB, poorly pedalling bike that we are all clearly far too awesome and sophisticated for now 😉

CFH has the right idea!

Same shit, new marketing.

It’s weird how it’s merging towards a middle ground. The guys I ride with started out as bridleway bashers with a 4hr circular route covering 30 miles being a normal ride. Now their trail bikes can do so much more its become a search to puts routes together that focus on the tricky, technical descents with ascents just a necessary evil. Shorter rides in terms of length and distance that fit into their family lives better but are higher on adrenaline.

At the other end of bike riding 160mm+ travel bike now ride uphill pretty well, its almost a pleasure. I can see this crowd all switching to longer travel bikes sooner rather than later.

I guess enduro riding is just an a more colourful, competitive version of what a lot people just consider mtbing to be these days.

^^This.

My 170mm enduro bike climbs at least as well as my old 140 bike from about 4/5 years ago. It’s also slacker, more stable and a ton faster on the downs. And while weight isn’t the be-all and end all, it is also half a pound lighter.

My 170mm enduro bike climbs at least as well as my old 140 bike from about 4/5 years ago. It’s also slacker, more stable and a ton faster on the downs. And while weight isn’t the be-all and end all, it is also half a pound lighter.

Interested to know which bikes you’re comparing. And how’s the new bike go on flatter trails?

Just starting to think about next buy and getting tempted by 160mm-plus travel bikes under 30lbs.

I remember a MBUK article from about 10 years ago titled “this is freeride”

I think the bikes were a couple of steel kona’s and a DMR switchback.

Having recently ridden a Scott Genius LT 710 I would have to say that the ‘enduro’ craze is driving the development of some seriously capable bikes. If I had the cash I’d be tempted to buy one. The GT Force was another great bike, but I’m not so sure I’d want one for general riding… great fun downhill, but maybe too much bike to be useful to me.
But I’m very happy people are making these bikes, whatever they want to label them.

Ten years ago, I bought my “one bike to rule them all” machine, a Spesh Enduro noless. Since then things kind of diversified…you had your 35lb freeride rigs, 100mm xc Bantamweight machines, mid-travel do it all machines and now the wheel is turning full circle with Enduro bikes with plenty of strength, useful geometry and a reasonable length top tube to permit all day rides.

I’m certainly considering replacing my 120mm full suss and 160mm AM bikes with just one bike. Current favourite is a YT Capra.

Hands up of your everyday riding necessitates a 160-170mm monster?

Im not buzzing these bikes being at the forefront, i want more fun bikes.

If i want to go trail riding and have fun, 120-140, tough/slack is ideal, if i want to ride on seriously rough stuff flat out or carelessly hucking big stuff to flat i’ll take my DH bike.

These kind of bikes kill the fun of general trail riding, they’re almost as capable as a DH bike, but still a compromise, not just in terms of travel and strength but geo/having a steep SA putting the seat right in the way.

I’m not trying to be intentionally offensive, maybe a little tongue in cheek, but these are the sort of bikes lusted after for pretty childish/caveman reasons, “it’s got more suspension so it must be better”. They’ll inevitably be ridden with 50%+ sag to get full travel on trail centre reds by some sweaty man in knee/elbow pads, sunglasses, massive garmin, urge helmet and a massive camelbak wondering why that last climb was so hard and wondering why they can’t get off the ground/ massive horrendous generalisation.

Hands up of your everyday riding necessitates a 160-170mm monster?

But if your riding consists of a mix of AM/blasting it in the woods/uplift days (as a lot of me and my mates do) and wife/kids/storage space reduce n+1 capacity, then a 160-170mm Enduro bike is ideal.

Interestingly, a mate has a Mojo HDR (160mm setup, 29lbs) and reckons it rides better point to point than his old Mojo SL from a few years prior.

I too would say that hand on heart, my 170mm enduro bike climbs better than it’s 140mm single pivot predecessor, so coupled with being stiffer, lighter and then also better descending, is a superior all round bike.

The tech has developed so fast in the last 2 years – and unless you’re an XC racer or perhaps someone into those massive epics, then a modern 160/Enduro bike is probably perfect for most people’s riding.

They also have much more betterer colorways too (see what I did there?!?!)

I too would say that hand on heart, my 170mm enduro bike climbs better than it’s 140mm single pivot predecessor, so coupled with being stiffer, lighter and then also better descending, is a superior all round bike.

The tech has developed so fast in the last 2 years – and unless you’re an XC racer or perhaps someone into those massive epics, then a modern 160/Enduro bike is probably perfect for most people’s riding.

It’s gone in a circle though, 8 years ago when the 6″ travel enduro came out MBR fawned over it, declared 5″ travel bikes obsolete, that “The tech has developed so fast in the last 2 years – and unless you’re an XC racer or perhaps someone into those massive epics, then a modern 160/Enduro bike is probably perfect for most people’s riding.
“

About 2 years later after all their staff long term bikes had been 140-160mm FS bikes they decided they were actualy crap and made anything short of a DH run boring and went back to stuff like the camber, trance-x etc.

I’m not saying MBR is right, I’m saying you’re just as wrong as they were.

Yes 170mm bikes might pedal as well as a 140mm bike from a few years ago, but the 140mm is even better, and if you’ve not tried a 100mm XC bike in the last few years, you should, they’re mindblowingly quick.

If n+1 isn’t an option, then the best bike for most people would probaly be much more towards the XC end of the spectrum, on the simple basis that most people will live near Swinley not Innerleithen.

There’s a massive gap between something that climbs well enough, and something that goes like a rat up a drain pipe as well as making so much more of every lump and bump on the flat and down.

Then there is the whole debate over “what goes downhill better”, what if your DH is at a trail centre red standard, is a 170mm bike really going to be better down it than a similarly evolved 130ish bike?

Fair play to these bikes if you’re climbing up to come down fort will, or live in the mountains with some proper stuff, i’ll take these bikes over trail bike any day, i somehow think the UK market who wants these things aren’t really hitting DHs on this level.

I’ve been there before with the one bike to do DH and XC, always at the back puffing, limping along the flats, missing upteen opportunities to get rad, to then get to a DH which was flattened to the point it wasn’t worth the hassle. I see lots of people about on rides with faces describing my experience above. Since getting a trail bike, im flying up the hills, making the most of the flatter bits and not being held back one bit on the downs and i dont shy away from the steep, technical, big gaps stuff.

deanfbm – Member

Hands up of your everyday riding necessitates a 160-170mm monster?

Necessitates, no. But necessary’s never the thing. I was out on my enduro-poon at the weekend at Glentress, by rights it should be overkill but it was a great laugh. I’d have been perfectly happy on my hardtail too so not necessary, just fun.

Hands up of your everyday riding necessitates a 160-170mm monster?

That’s kind of it though, the 160-170 mm bikes of today aren’t monsters, they are as light as the 130-140mm trail bikes of a couple of years ago (sub 30lbs) yet loads more capable over the rough stuff. Win/win IMO

What Ive noticed is that all the enduro bikes seem to be designed to be carried up hill. Watch any of the videos in mis week moves etc and they all seem to involve carrying rather than riding a bike up hill.

Now Im all for each to their own but I want a bike to ride up and down the hill, not carry up it.

All the tech of these 150-170 bikes but scaled down to 120 would suit me just fine

chrismac – Member

What Ive noticed is that all the enduro bikes seem to be designed to be carried up hill. Watch any of the videos in mis week moves etc and they all seem to involve carrying rather than riding a bike up hill.

Now Im all for each to their own but I want a bike to ride up and down the hill, not carry up it.

I suppose you can get wrong ideas easily when you base your opinions on videos rather than actual experience 😉

Seriously though, sometimes a push or a carry gets you places you wouldn’t get to otherwise- not a bike specific thing that, it’s just a way to access more cool things.

tomhoward – Member
Hands up of your everyday riding necessitates a 160-170mm monster?
That’s kind of it though, the 160-170 mm bikes of today aren’t monsters, they are as light as the 130-140mm trail bikes of a couple of years ago (sub 30lbs) yet loads more capable over the rough stuff. Win/win IMO

Yes, and many of the 120-140mm trail bikes of today are just as capable over the rough stuff as the 160-170mm bikes of a couple of years ago, but also now sub 25lbs in some cases. 😉

Bikes have got better in the last few years, particularly if you’ve embraced the middle or big wheel sizes where the R&D budget has been spent. Call it Enduro if you like, but it’s what most of us have been doing with our mates every weekend for years.

chrismac – Member
What Ive noticed is that all the enduro bikes seem to be designed to be carried up hill. Watch any of the videos in mis week moves etc and they all seem to involve carrying rather than riding a bike up hill.

Now Im all for each to their own but I want a bike to ride up and down the hill, not carry up it.
All the best rides involve hike a bike. Proper mountains are hard to ride to the top of regardless of the bike you ride at some point you are getting off.
This is me carrying my too old and out of date to be ‘enduro’ Pitch up Helvellyn last week. I did ride quite a bit but at some point you have to shoulder the bike, but without such toil you’d never get to enjoy the best bits mountains have to offer.

Phrases like ‘enduro’ are just marketing hubris to me.

A bike is labelled properly with a description of it’s engineering, facts like wheel size, gearing, frame material, rigid/hardtail/full suspension, travel at each end, frame angles.

It may be long winded that way but at least it’s not bull****!

I think for the people that have several bikes, then these #enduro gnarpoons are too compromised. Ie you have a trail bike for most of your riding, and a downhill bike to use when you have a chairlift/uplift. You dont also need a mid ground enduro rig.

But for people who only have one bike , these #enduro bikes are a great thing, these days they really do allow you to cover nearly all spectrums of mountain biking with a single bike.

I’m in the one bike camp, cant be bothered maintaining/storing two bikes, My mojo HD is great, does exactly what I need it to do. Long XC rides,UK big mountains, UK Uplift, alps chairlift, spain big mountains.

chrismac
What Ive noticed is that all the enduro bikes seem to be designed to be carried up hill. Watch any of the videos in mis week moves etc and they all seem to involve carrying rather than riding a bike up hill.

What i suspect you are seeing is that modern “enduro” or “AM” bikes are so capable and yet light, you CAN now carry them to the top of a mountain and actually ride down it! Before, you couldn’t ride down it, and NO ONE carries a bike to the top of a mountain to then carry it straight back down again 😉

Tomaso that looks like a fun descent!

@fr0sty125 its here