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This is off topic but 1 in every 6 voters is not even close to 1 in every 6 people you pass in the street
No, but if 100 people don't vote, then we must extrapolate that 14 of them would have voted Reform. That's the problem with not voting.
Besides, I'd be confident in saying it is highly likely to be 1 in 6 people one passes in the street - 52% of people who voted in the 2016 referendum voted Leave. There is a fetid undercurrent of prejudice and bigotry in the UK.
No, but if 100 people don’t vote, then we must extrapolate that 14 of them would have voted Reform.
Lolwut? Care to show your working on that?
He appears to be like Johnson in not actually wanting to do the work other than campaigning/grifting
Funny you should mention the fly-tipped sofa, but he’s presently trending on Elon Musks platform for this, which Kemi and chums may want to bear in mind while having an opportunistic pop at Labour and Starmer…
Who'd have thought a child of apartheid South Africa would turn out to be a far right racist. Where's James Bond or the Jackel when you need them.
Lolwut? Care to show your working on that?
14% of votes cast in the UK general election were for Reform.
Assuming those that didn't vote were happy to be dealt whatever outcome those who did vote generated, then we must assume 14 of every hundred non-voters would have voted Reform.
It's not that ****ing difficult to understand.
Having read what Starmer said I think thats a good counter and well said. Not just a sigh and move on but a detailed factual unemotive counter.
Agreed but the problem is in the world we are now living in a worrying amount of people seem to prefer to believe in a brief post on X vs watching Starmer's statement on the news so ultimately it's not really an effective counter.
I agree with some others that if Musk continues or escalates his garbage then we should legislate blocking X in interests of national security or similar, it's not about stifling free speech when he's just spouting lies to the gullible and uninformed which can have serious consequences in the long run. We all witnessed the bullshit on X last year that sparked riots and can clearly see the negative effect it's having on US politics right now. We need to stop pretending it's just a harmless platform for people to post nonsense and see it as one of the main sources of dangerous misinformation in this country.
I can't see any realistic hope of it being banned though, not even just for use by government departments, especially whilst Musk still has Trump's support.
It’s not that **** difficult to understand
I mean, imo you seem to be struggling! You simply can't make the claim that you are making with any credibility.
I can’t see any realistic hope of it being banned though, not even just for use by government departments, especially whilst Musk still has Trump’s support.
Which is why Musk should have been more strongly discouraged before he got to this point.
I wasn't entirely joking about special forces - he could easily have had it quietly pointed out to him that Twitter doesn't have a military and especially not a SF capability.
If our military doesn't exist to deter and/or counter threats to our democracy, what is it for?
Musk cannot be discouraged - his is not rational behaviour
it’s not about stifling free speech when he’s just spouting lies to the gullible and uninformed which can have serious consequences in the long run
Very much this. Jess Phillips is now receiving death threats and given recent history then these have to be taken seriously.
I don’t think for a second that that ketamine-fuelled moron gives a flying **** about the victims in Oldham or Telford, he’s just furthering his own agenda and to hell with the consequences.
Jess Phillips on the other hand, has fought for the rights of women and girls for decades and particularly the cause of victims of sexual and domestic violence. As those people are at lengths to pint out….
‘We stand by Jess’: Telford survivors criticise Musk’s attack on Phillips
Not that it’ll register with the hard-of-thinking Musk fanboys, but I think that Kemi Badanoch and the other bandwagon jumpers should maybe consider their positions on this one and ask themselves where their shameless opportunism is leading them
Assuming those that didn’t vote were happy to be dealt whatever outcome those who did vote generated, then we must assume 14 of every hundred non-voters would have voted Reform.
I don't think that logic holds up, a lot more people are very dissatisfied with the main parties, the election turnout was rather low, but most of the disenfranchised just couldn't bring themselves to vote for any of the shitty options, even with such low approval of the right wing establishment (and labour are currently a right wing establishment party) they didn't turn to reform, they are just added to the mass of disenfranchised voters with no real options.
they are just added to the mass of disenfranchised voters with no real options.
This was me. there was no one I could vote for in my constituency
I wasn’t entirely joking about special forces – he could easily have had it quietly pointed out to him that Twitter doesn’t have a military and especially not a SF capability.
I know this is hypothetical joking, but if you think Musk doesn't have access to military/SF given his wealth and contacts, I think you are being naive.
Kemi Badanoch and the other bandwagon jumpers should maybe consider their positions on this one and ask themselves where their shameless opportunism is leading them
They’re little different to Musk other than $$$$$$. Do and say whatever it takes to promote whatever agenda is motivating them this week.
If you don't vote, you are accepting the result of those who do. The voters who exercise their right are considered representative. Therefore they are representative of non-voters too.
And the UK did vote 52:48 in favour of Brexit too - remember?
It all points to 1 in 6 people in the street being 'Reform-minded' for want of a better phrase.
Deny it all you like - doesn't stop it being true.
Musk cannot be discouraged – his is not rational behaviour
If the purpose is to wreck the upcoming legislation that tries to force social media companies to do a better job of taking down child sex abuse material, then it is perfectly rational behaviour, albeit distasteful.
I agree with some others that if Musk continues or escalates his garbage then we should legislate blocking X in interests of national security or similar
Just feeds their paranoia, The only sensible option is to refute the allegations once and move on. They will eventually find some other nonsense that diverts the attention of the people that follow the Alt-right for the nano-second attention span that they're all competing for.
They will eventually find some other nonsense that diverts the attention of the people that follow the Alt-right for the nano-second attention span that they’re all competing for.
Yes, but there's always the general undercurrent of bigotry to fall back on. Specific issues are anathema to the populists because they can be backed into corners by facts. But the general feeling of being ruled over by immigrant-loving elites is always there for the next issue to be projected onto.
tjagain
Full Member
This was me. there was no one I could vote for in my constituency
I am struggling to understand how someone who constantly provides Scotland as a positive political example to the rest of the UK had zero confidence in any of the candidates in his constituency.
When did you first realise that you had so little faith in Scottish politics?
This latest nonsense has made me delete my Twitter/X/Whatever account. It was a handy tool for work but it’s now well beyond the pale. A far right cesspit.
I know that in the grand scheme of things it makes sod all difference, but I think if all the sane people do and it just leaves the far right and Russian bots on there, then I can’t see many reputable businesses wanting to carry on contributing to Musks advertising revenues.
Not that he cares, I’m sure. It’s obvious now that it was never about the money. He wanted a mouthpiece to air his toxic views and if you’ve got that much money then you can buy yourself one
I wasn’t entirely joking about special forces
Nah, not special forces. It sounds more like a job for a loan assassin type. Potentially a sauve mi6 agent, the type of bloke who looks good in a dinner suit and drives an Aston..
Tbh it would make a great film script. Genuinely surprised noone has thought of it before. I'd have Amber Heard playing the femme fatale..
I am struggling to understand how someone who constantly provides Scotland as a positive political example to the rest of the UK had zero confidence in any of the candidates in his constituency.
When did you first realise that you had so little faith in Scottish politics?
1) this was a westminster election not a scots one so its not about Scottish politics
2) the tories were never going to get in thus it makes no difference to who gets in government who I vote for
3) the Labour party support brexit thus I cannot vote for them
4) the SNP candidate lied to my face hence no vote for her
5)No lefties stood
6)No independents I could vote for
7)No green candidate
8) lib dems still have Carmichael the liar as a front bench MP and have nev er apologised or repudiated his lies
I thought long and hard about this. Its the first time ever I have not voted but as my vote would make no difference to who the westminster government is and I had strong objections to all the candidates then I abstained. If it had been a chance of a tory getting in then I would have voted for the candidate most likely to beat them
Packed in a couple of months back and don't regret it for a second. Debate I can handle as well as different opinions but that place is so loaded towards the insane it's not worth the time.
Bluesky seems better than Threads although I've pretty much weened myself of them all.
14% of votes cast in the UK general election were for Reform.
Assuming those that didn’t vote were happy to be dealt whatever outcome those who did vote generated, then we must assume 14 of every hundred non-voters would have voted Reform.
It’s not that **** difficult to understand.
Not difficult if you take such a one dimensional simplistic view.
Other, better informed views are available.
This will not come as a shock, but listening to Professor Jay this morning on R4 (1hr 33 in for those interested - Today - 07/01/2025 - BBC Sounds). highlighted the stark contrast to what an intelligent, informed person with the right motivations sounds like in comparison to some of the absolute melts such as Musk and Jenrick. Considering the cauldron of publicity I thought it was a stellar interview and really worth listening to for anyone coming at this from a social media and rabid headlines only perspective. It depresses me enormously that the great majority of members of the public will have an opinion on this stuff without actually listening properly to the people who genuinely matter.
Words here in summary, but I'd really encourage you actually listen. I don't think you can have a proper opinion on Musk's intervention until you understand what the experts in the field think, what has already been done, and what the experts actually think needs to happen next. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp836w074gko
This latest nonsense has made me delete my Twitter/X/Whatever account.
I only keep it for this account. https://twitter.com/footbalIfights
Just feeds their paranoia, The only sensible option is to refute the allegations once and move on.
It's not just about Musk's petulant outbursts though is it? These platforms are doing real damage in our society. Are you saying we shouldn't regulate or control them because the likes of Musk and his acolytes will wail about free speech? Defending 'free speech' has been the cover of far right nutcases throughout history. They don't need to be passively ignored they need to be aggressively stamped out. The longer we as a society shy away from this fight the more ground they take. Social media is the frontline, take away their platform(s) for spreading hate and disinformation and they'll be reduced to standing on street corners shouting into the wind.
But the general feeling of being ruled over by immigrant-loving elites
Although a somewhat awkward one given Trump and his (admittedly almost certainly temporary) love for the immigrant Musk
loan assassin
Do you have one I can borrow?
This was me. there was no one I could vote for in my constituency
There was an anti-Brexit Party standing in your constituency, seems from other posts you 100% want to rejoin so why didn't you 'hold your nose' and vote SNP?
@tj the greens did field a candidate in the Edinburgh north and leith constituency Kayleigh O’Neill she came third
Ta bikepawl. I must have forgotton.
intheborders - because the SNP candidate lied to my face to try to get my vote, she is vile
Tbh it would make a great film script. Genuinely surprised noone has thought of it before.
Tomorrow Never Dies would be a good starting point.
5)No lefties stood
6)No independents I could vote for
7)No green candidate
BikePawl's link suggests there were both Socialist Labour Party and Communist Party standing as well as an Independent (no idea where she fell on the political spectrum) in addition to the Green. I can almost always find a reason not to vote for any particular candidate, based either on their personal characteristics or the party they are associated with. So if that is TJ's seat it doesn't really add up.
Its the first time ever I have not voted but as my vote would make no difference to who the westminster government is
Individually almost nobody has any meaningful power to influence who the UK gov is. However 37% of the electorate in that constituency didn't vote... that's more than the winning candidate got, so certainly the abstainers had the power to influence who their local representative was. They also have the power to send a message which will influence future policy decisions (every vote for Reform is understood by politicians to mean "I care about immigration more than other things", every vote for green is understood to mean "I care about the planet more than other things" and at one point every vote for SNP was understood to mean "Scottish independence matters a lot to me" - its a gross simplification but I think that is how other parties see those votes).
But of course political apathy is the biggest "party" in the UK and actually achieving that is what keeps the two big parties in power! For those who look at the candidates and think there really is nothing here I can get behind, and with so many people not backing any candidate it does beg the question why not stand yourself.
Not difficult if you take such a one dimensional simplistic view.
Other, better informed views are available.
Are they?
What other, better informed views are out there than a full UK General Election with pretty much universal suffrage, a long campaign period and actual polling stations?
Opinion polls? Bless.
Conversations down the pub or in the office?
intheborders – because the SNP candidate lied to my face to try to get my vote, she is vile
Johnson lied to the Queen, was her lie on this level?
Ok - I was wrong about the minor candidates in my post - apologies.
I know at the time I researched every candidate and couldn't find one I could back. I do not remember all the reasons now. It was NOT an apathetic abstention - it was a principled one
As for the lie from the SNP candidate - it was a couple of election cycles ago. I run a pressure group about the Stasutory notice scandal. We wrote to every major candidate asking to meet with them. Most refused but she agreed and, then kept on putting it off until she was elected then ghosted us. This scandal had the potential to both bankrupt me and make me homeless. so yes to me a very serious lie. I thought I had a politician who would help. She lied. My MSP on the other hand did meet with me
Are they?
What other, better informed views are out there than a full UK General Election with pretty much universal suffrage, a long campaign period and actual polling stations?
Which the people in question didn't participate in.
You don't know why they didn't participate but I can almost guarantee that unless an 'Apathy Party' exists nobody avoids voting for a party they approve of. Splitting the results amongst non-voters makes absolutely no statistical sense, you're just making stuff up at that point.
I don’t think you can have a proper opinion on Musk’s intervention until you understand what the experts in the field think, what has already been done, and what the experts actually think needs to happen next.> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp836w074gko
Remember though, we've had enough of experts...
I can remember before the election Labour's futile gloves off campaign. ("Rishi doesn't) - endorsed by many a centrist commentator - a la James O'Brien. We need to play dirty was the reasoning.
I always thought it would be best to not engage like this as the bone-headed right will come back with something much worse.
Here we are.
I can't see anything other than a race to the bottom because the arguments are no longer about inequality and material conditions; things that genuinely change people's lives.
You fix the correct stuff for people and Farage and Musk become irrelevant especially when you have such a majority.
We are so far away from useful politics now.
Well he's summed up Ed Davey rather nicely:
Elon Musk • x
@elonmusk
What exactly do I fail to understand about your failure to stop the mass
rape of little girls in Britain, you snivelling cretin?
You fix the correct stuff for people and Farage and Musk become irrelevant especially when you have such a majority.
Exactly
Well he’s summed up Ed Davey rather nicely:
He really hasn't. He's resorted to abuse to continue to push his vile lies about a devastating tragedy. I'm not an Ed Davey fan, but I know who I'd prefer to be in a position of power and influence out the two of them.
Interesting post here - ElMo spent 11 hours tweeting continuously. You’d have to assume that Tesla/Space X engineers are quite glad he’s got no time left to interfere with what they’re doing.
https://bsky.app/profile/petertl.bsky.social/post/3lf5mzs2dec2b
Also, as above, resorting to abuse when challenged suggests he hasn’t really got a grasp of the arguments. But being sleep deprived will do that.
ElMo spent 11 hours tweeting continuously.
Or the AI bots have taught themselves to do drug fuelled paranoia on his behalf.
Interesting post here
That is. I'm now wondering myself if that's all him. But I suppose it's why he took control of Twitter, so he might as well spend his time on it.
Back in the UK... Jenrick is really going for the Musk adjacent money and attention now, isn't he?
Ed Davey has a good point.
and it’s nice to see former PM David has waded back in to this cess pool with an interesting new line of work:
In other social media ****er news
“Meta to get rid of factcheckers and recommend more political content. Mark Zuckerberg says company will ‘dramatically reduce censorship’ across Facebook, Instagram and Threads”
I’d love to disrupt these pricks by sticking a permanent bung up their arses until they explode in their own shit.
Peter Walker has thoughts on this
https://bsky.app/profile/peterwalker99.bsky.social/post/3lf5sxyq25k2b
I assume the EU will take a dim view of reduced fact checking.
Theres a race to the bottom, and then there's A Race To The Bottom.
FFS.
How does that even make sense business sense? There's the X end of the SM spectrum doing it's best to force governments to legislate for greater control/responsibility/censorship* and losing users as a result, and there's the "new Twitter" style SM gaining those users, why the **** would MetaFB move towards the Musk end of the spectrum? Are the algorithms so ****ed up that the revenue they generate from fewer people sharing ever more vile opinions is greater than more people being "normal"?
*which I accept is it's own risk to free speech
@MoreCashThanDash I think, between this and the suggestion of flooding people’s timelines with AI bots when they’re already full of ‘recommended’ cruft rather than what brought people to FB in the first place, that there’s a decent body of evidence that Zuckerberg is an idiot who got lucky.
I think it was Brian Klaas who said that he wasted $30bn on the Metaverse, which resembled a PS1 game from 2001 and never took off.
Does anyone think Meta actually deals with any of that shit already? It doesn't take more than a step off of your normal path to find yourself immersed in hate speech that there is no reporting mechanism for.
I think it was Brian Klaas who said that he wasted $30bn on the Metaverse, which resembled a PS1 game from 2001 and never took off.
As opposed to Musk, who wasted a good chunk of 44bn on Twitter, which now resembles a pamphlet from 1935.
Does anyone think Meta actually deals with any of that shit already?
Fairly well established by a few whistleblowers that they do very little in combatting it. The most prominent one was a lass, whose name escapes me. She even talked about how in some countries Facebook was being used to facilitate people smuggling and slavery and they did jack shit.
Edit: Frances Haugen was her name. She's worth a listen.
Someone else did a study on Musks tweeting patterns at the tail end of last year. It was published in either the Guardian or the Conversation. He was regularly posting huge numbers of tweets per day across like a 12 hour plus time frame. As above, it's hard to see how he finds the time to do anything else (spoiler, he likely doesn't!).
The meta stuff is just insane, part of my PhD is looking at online disinformation of climate change.....I mean it's just a total ****ing endless pit of utter nonsense on there already!
I use Bluesky and it's been quite useful for my work etc. I'll not be on X, Facebook etc again other than in small doses for work now.
Back in the UK… Jenrick is really going for the Musk adjacent money and attention now, isn’t he?
Nick Robinson gave him a pretty good going over on the Today programme this morning.
this is where things are heading
blessed be the fruit
https://bsky.app/profile/rubenmathisen.bsky.social/post/3lf5fwquz3k2i
@martinhutch I never said Musk was any better. The thing is that much of his wealth depends on Tesla, which is massively overvalued as a result of the cult-like devotion of his f@n8ois.
I think the phrase is “two cheeks of the same arse”
Splitting the results amongst non-voters makes absolutely no statistical sense, you’re just making stuff up at that point.
Which is what extrapolation actually is.
So what's your better method?
Because until you do come up with a better method than superimposing the votes of those who did exercise their right in July, I'm going to keep asserting that 1 in 6 eligible UK voters favour Reform UK Ltd.
Which is what extrapolation actually is.
Extrapolation doesn't work when there is a noisy minority. What you can probably extrapolate is that likely Reform had a higher election turnout of supporters than the majority parties.
Both Baroness Jay's and Jenrick's interviews made the 6 o'clock news.
(Does look like Clive Myrie has a black eye ballooning though)
So what's the word on the street/ other forums?
Are the knuckle draggers siding with musk or Nij Al Farage?
I posted this on the Starmer thread, but it’s worth repeating
If you’re in any doubt about peoples motivations for what’s presently happening and who actually gives a shit about the victims of the grooming gangs, I suggest you watch the Victoria Derbyshire interview on tonight’s Newsnight with Jess Phillips
An incredible woman who has dedicated her life to the victims of sexual and domestic violence, being called ‘a genocide rape apologist’ by a man who is presently the lap dog of a *ing multiple rapist and friend of Epstein. Jess Phillips has now had to have increased security due to the death threats she’s received since all this kicked off.
Elon Musk is a *ing cancer. And as for those jumping on his bandwagon…. ? My opinions on those ****s would explode the swear filter
That is my facebook account deleted now, I only probably logged on twice in the past 12 months anyway, the shitifacation happened years ago, but I kept my account open just in case old friends wanted to reach out, but with Zuckerberg deciding he wanted to go down the same path as musk and even stop pretending it will be used for anything other than right wing propaganda I don't even want my account an their claimed readership.
I should have done it after brexit, and definitely after the Cambridge analytics story broke, I am a little disappointed in my personal moral compass that it has taken so long for me to act.
Youtube will probably go soon as well, I do find it can be useful, but it is an incredible time sink if I am not careful, and ignoring the damage these scummy propogandists are doing to society now on a world wide level is not really an option I am comfortable with. Tearing myself away from the google infrastructure will take some work, especially as that is my main email account, but I think they are just the same as musk and zuckerberg really just without the easily hateable figurehead to focus on.
Bannon said, “The Democrats don’t matter, The real opposition is the media. And the way to deal with them is to flood the zone with shit.”
2018 Steve Bannon interview with Mark Lewis
You fix the correct stuff for people and Farage and Musk become irrelevant especially when you have such a majority
It's not that simple. Given we don't (and never will) exist in a utopian world there will always things impacting people negatively and those things will differ between people. You can't fix it all (you can't even really fix most of it) and anything remaining will still be susceptible to this kind of subversion of social media in order to spread misinformation.
Whether you believe there's some hidden global conspiracy of the rich/powerful to keep the masses in line so they remain in control or if it's just individual chancers looking to make a quick buck (or, more likely, somewhere in between) there will always be a motivation to try an polarize people via spreading misinformation etc., it's only recently though with the pervasiveness of social media that it's become so easy and cheap to do. At least before Musk's acquisition of X it was mostly about SM companies failing to properly regulate such misinformation (as keeping their platforms popular and relevant is their primary driver in order to keep making money), Musk has changed that though and one of the chancers with an agenda now has much more ability to control and spread that misinformation. I can't see how you address that other than via government regulation, it's no surprise then that buying politicians in order to avoid that is happening in plain sight.
That is my facebook account deleted now, I only probably logged on twice in the past 12 months anyway, the shitifacation happened years ago, but I kept my account open just in case old friends wanted to reach out, but with Zuckerberg deciding he wanted to go down the same path as musk and even stop pretending it will be used for anything other than right wing propaganda I don’t even want my account an their claimed readership.
Interesting. I closed my Twitter account recently and never use Instagram or Tiktok or anything else but Like you I use Facebook to stay in touch with my running clubs, some friends and a few interest groups. Closing this account will actually inconvenience me and isolate me as well. What irony.
That's the thing with youtube as well, there is some useful stuff on there, but the shitification now means wading through tons of shit to get to the nuggets. This past few weeks I have been trying to learn some home automation stuff for "home assistant" and the amount of absolute garbage that people post is just drowning out anything useful, after watching hours of content I just gave up on youtube as a useful resource for what I wanted, there may be a home assistant equivalent of dcrainmaker, but unless you already reasonably knowledgeable knowing who that might be is impossible.
That is my experience over the past years, I have now realised that I probably spend about 10 to 20 times as long getting frustrated sifting through crap than I actually spend watching anything useful or informative, and I think that is intentional on youtubes behalf as it keeps us engaged on their site just searching. I think it might have been dcrainmaker who wrote something about it a couple of years ago, how the youtube payment algorithm basically encourages content creators to create overlong, and more regular content than is realistically worthwhile or of acceptable quality.
With that and the political discourse it is creating, I have come to the conclusion that the negatives really do outweigh the positives and I am probably better of disengaging.
It is a shame, social media as a concept could really be a benefit for society, but the way the owners are running it it has become a big negative IMO.
...and I also think as AI slowly advances it will probably get a lot worse unless there is some serious legislation. I accept the principle of the importance of free speech, but the current situation isn't free speech, this is owned speech and propaganda and we are all paying the costs.
You fix the correct stuff for people and Farage and Musk become irrelevant especially when you have such a majority.
This is the political version of that Business cartoon, where one says to the other, "I've had a great idea, let's just make profitable things from now on"
You fix the correct stuff for people and Farage and Musk become irrelevant especially when you have such a majority.
Dunno if it already been pointed out, as i'm only dipping in and out of here, but the stuff that Farage, Musk and their fans think need fixing, for the most part, aren't ****ing broken. It's extensively fluff and misinformation.
All you can do is refute the claims that it's broken. And we're shafted on that as Musk owns twitter, and Farage gets a shit load of coverage because he's Farage and he says what those that own much of the media want to hear (and it generates revenue/clicks).
Google results have gotten way worse too, I think we're being pushed towards using their AI tools which will summarise all the youtube stuff, as it'll be the next thing undergo enshitification, with endless adverts embedded in the replies until it becomes as useless as everything else.
The irony...
Original vid to ensure it's not a faked image...
but the stuff that Farage, Musk and their fans think need fixing, for the most part, aren’t ****ing broken. It’s extensively fluff and misinformation.
All you can do is refute the claims that it’s broken.
What is broken is the connection between established political parties/politicians and voters, and delivery of voters expectations.
This isn't just a UK phenomena it represents a political crisis across much of the Western world.
That is what Musk, Farage, Trump, Le Pen, etc, are exploiting and what needs to be fixed to diminish their influences. How that is to be achieved isn't easy and quite frankly no one wants to take it very seriously. Maintaining the familiar status quo seems to be the preferred easy option, with fairly devastating consequences.
and delivery of voters expectations
And who is manipulating voters expectations? And will they stop doing so if those expectations are met? Of course not. We saw how fast "voters expectations" were moved on from Brexit to refugees, before the former was even fully delivered.