Love to hear your views on these two bikes.
Here's the lowdown: I'm mid forties, a fit but not excessively jumpy/ tricky rider. I weigh around 100kg (hence the name!). Local riding is more XC than downhill, but I need one bike to do almost everything (eg. weekends to Wales, Scotland etc.).I currently ride a Commencal Meta 5.5, which I'm fed up with- top tube & wheel base too short. Only good for the downhills – no good on the ups. Also rear wheel flop due to the single swingarm is really starting to pig me off.
Got my eye on these two lovelies, the Epiphany & 5 Spot, which I would put all the Meta parts on. I know the Turner is a pound heavier, but with my weight, strong/ stiff is better than light ….. unless I can have both in the Epiphany.

Cheers.

Turner by a country fricken mile.

Best customer service in the biz is an added bonus.

Cove Hustler, better than both of those 😆

Also be interested in this…given you can get a new Epiphany for £1200, the 5Spot really has got to shine for the extra money and extra weight for me personally.

Turner by a country fricken mile.

Insightful…want to expand on that at all?

Turner by a country fricken mile.

Best customer service in the biz is an added bonus.

Versus the worst reputation for customer service.

Hi BigChris I may be able to help! Did you want to buy a new frame or pre loved? I used to ride a Turner 5 spot (horst link) I really loved it. They are very reliable. The bushing last really well if lubed regularly and are pretty simple to change at home. The ride feels solid and very little flex (the bushes are quite wide) Climbed well was fitted with an RP 23 shock, decended good fox talas 32 fork. I sold it and bought an Ellsworth epiphany. Its nice it feels more modern, it feels lighter it climbs a bit better (fox rp3) and decends as well. But it does feel that little bit more flexy. I guess there has to be a trade off between the weight & strength somewhere. Some of the suspension pivot bearings are quite small, and can wear out in a season if riden regularly.
In conclusion the ellsworth is great, but I really miss the Turner, I would love to try the new DW link version. I weigh about 80KG by the way. So maybe the Turner would suit you better.

Having owned two 5 Spots I'd say Turner, but that's very baised of me as I love Turners and I've never tried an Ellsworth. Couple of mates had them in the past and the looked lovely frames, they seemed to really like them. Although they both ride DW 5 Spots now come to think of it.

Quite a difference in price, hunt around you might find a 5 Spot a bit cheaper, but still not as low as £1200. See if you can get a ride on either, best way to find out before spunking out a fair chunk of cash.

Anyhow, here's a pic just cos I can.

If anyone is after a medium 5Spot reduced to £1595, I did find this…

http://www.addiktioncycles.com/products.php?plid=m4b0s26p3178

I have owned neither and seen both break. Turner seem to be much better for replacements.

But I'm sure you won't break it, right…? 😯

As fivespot says you should think about the Hustler, climbs great fantastic on singletrack and descends amazingly! Plus they seem
pretty bulletproof so good for big guys!

Turner by a country fricken mile.

Insightful…want to expand on that at all?

Truner Advantages:
Stiff. You'll notice this being 100kg. Epi frames are paper thin and dent rather easily (witnessed this in the alps).
Bush system – worth its weight in gold in this climate. Excellent mud clearance too.
Workmanship. Put a Turner beside an Ells and you'll see where your money goes, which is nice.
Loads of colours available if that's your thing.

Customber service for 100% peace of mind. They won't let you down. Just check out MTBR for numerous warranty claim horry stories with Ellsworth!

How many repeat Ellsworth buyers are there? People go back to Turner for a reason.

I don't have an agenda here as while I currently run an Ellsworth Moment MK1, it's a temporary bike until my Nicolai arrives. I have ridden an Epiphany and the old Horst Link Five Spot, but not the new DW link one.

First off you should test ride them both. Freeborn in Horsham and Esher, are the retailer and the importer of Ellsworth so they can sort you out with a test ride. Call 01403 251 252 and ask for Paul 1 or James and they will sort you out. If you're down this way, Nirvana cycles also have a Five Spot (the new DW link version) that you can also test. Nirvana are in Westcott. Your test riding will be Leith/Pitch/Holmburry Hill, all excellent venues.

There is a big difference in price between the two as Freeborn can be far more competitive on price then other boutique brand frames. If money is an issue, then go for the Epiphany (or the Moment as there is almost no weight penalty and the geometry of the Moment is more relaxed) and spend the money you save on a really good fork, wheels or something.

Freeborn will always sort you out with any warranty issues, I think the warranty on Ellsworths is two years. Again, being the retailer and the importer they are in a better position to sort out any problems than a Turner retailer will be. But that's not to say you won't get the same outcome, just that you've got an extra layer of communication to work through if you buy a Turner.

Both the Ephiphany and the Horst Link Five Spot pedal extremely well. I think NorthCountryBoy sums them up very well; the Moment will reduce the flex issus he refers to but will add a little weight (albeit no much). I've nothing empirical to base this perception on, but the Turner looks to be the more robust construction; maybe it weighs a little more.

Going by your weight I'd also side with the turner or perhaps a Moment. I have the Epiphany and whilst I think its the dogs B's for the stuff i ride in the lakes I only weigh 70kg.

All the stuff about customer service above is bull. Freeborn have given me the best customer service i have ever have from a mtb product. Break a part you have a replacement in 3 days no questions asked 😉

I can't comment on the Ellsworth, but I'd look closely at the top tube length of a Five Spot as they're quite short. In fact I discounted buying one, simply because it was so short….

In terms of durability and reliability I can't recommend Turner enough. After three and a half years of abuse my Flux is still a phenomenal frame.

Just to queer the deal a bit more I was well impressed by build quality of the Intense Tracer beautifully made bit of kit.

I ride an old Ellsworth and it's never skipped a beat but then it's a single pivot and built like a brick shithouse.

I weight 60% your weight and appreciate the extra solidness of the 5 Spot given those two choices.

All the stuff about customer service above is bull. Freeborn have given me the best customer service i have ever have from a mtb product. Break a part you have a replacement in 3 days no questions asked

I was on about the manufacturers reputation so not bull.

cooga hows the 5spot with the lyrics on does it wander on climbs etc /to slack /just right comments please g

Seen quite a few reports on flexing Epiphany's but not ridden one to find out. However, after owning a 5 Spot, Intense 5.5 Blur and Yeti 575 (08) I would have the Turner over them all. It's very hard to judge being honest as each of the above had different shocks/forks which makes a huge difference but FWIW, the Turner soaked up all bumps better and is a very well made, well thought out bike.

All the stuff about customer service above is bull. Freeborn have given me the best customer service i have ever have from a mtb product. Break a part you have a replacement in 3 days no questions asked

I was on about the manufacturers reputation so not bull.

Tiz fella, from what I've experienced Ellsworth stand by there products if theres a genuine claim. In the UK freeborn(Ellsworth distributer) are exceptional at dealing with stuff quickly. I've had 2 rockers replaced because of the issues they suffered, one replacement being 6 months outside the 2 year warranty. They replaced it no questions asked. I don't see what else they need to or can do. Most of the stuff on the mtbr forum stems from the whole ICT patent issue. Which turned most Turner folks against Ellsworth. Time to move on…its about how they ride anyway… isn't it?

I bought the Ellsworth early this year and have loved it. Afew in the club ride 5spots,rfx and flux. Honest answer is that they are both as good as each other(although the anodising on the Ellsworth is alot better). The Ellsworth really does climb well and have just thrown mine around kirroughtree, dalbeattie and mabie without any issues. I am 15.5stone and not had any issues. I think, not checked, that the moment comes in at the same weight as the 5 spot although could be wrong.

I think freeborn have the 2010 models in now which are really nice and just to confuse things abit more really think you should throw the Ellsworth moment into the mix aswell.

Good luck

Cheers guys.
The consensus seems to be in favour of the Turner. Helluva lot of money though. I'll give one a try as soon as I can. Have to travel to Bromley Bikes or Sussex, as you can't get proper mountain bikes in Suffolk. Reminds me to call Pete at Psychlosport in Harrogate – he does Turner. Top bloke. (I hail from Yorkshire, forced to live in Suffolk for now).
Bit of a tangent here, but am I the only one who thinks the latest stuff from the likes of Specialized, Giant & Fisher are hideously pot-bellied & saggy? Looks like someone has been playing with the morphing tool in Photoshop. That's one reason why I like the honesty of the Turner & 09 Ellsworth- straight tubes just look right to me. (The 2010 Epiphany is heading down the slippery fashion slope towards curvy hydro-formed tubes, though).

It's late, I'm old & I've been to the pub, so I'm starting to rant again. If I had a new shiny frame I wouldn't be a grumpy old git, honest.

I have a 2006 Ellsworth Moment frame, It's an excellent frame in all aspects apart from the BB sits you a bit too high. I like throwing myself down short steep techy sections, but the frame feels a bit too perched, so you feel a bit too sat on, rather than sat in. It's a shame, because otherwise I would say it's the best frame ever, as it does everything else brilliantly, but unfortunately it didn't quite tick all the boxes for me.

I have had a new spot for 8 months, 30lb build. Full xtr, CK wheels on dt5.1's, tech m4's, maverick speedball post, gobi saddle, kenda 2.35 nevegals, fox talas 36's.

Bombproof, took it to Morzine in summer – awesome, great for xc, no bob, climbs well, descends better,

Worth the money – but I live in Malaysia and it cost 1400new, have also had HL 5 spot, nicolai helius cc etc. Still great.

cheers
Shiny

Get a Maverick Durance, climb much better than either and descend every bit as well

i have a 2007 Ellsworth Moment and love it to bits, although i dont use it a lot for XC riding around Berkshire where i live. I use it as my all-day bike in Wales/Lakes/Quantocks/Exmoor etc and find it can cope with everything easily.

Once setup correctly and dialled in, it is a joy to ride. I havent tried a 5 Spot so cant compare the two.

i thought about getting an Epiphany, but thought that the Moment had that extra all round capability and felt more solid on the techy fast descents.

Eve I couldn't agree with your review more – it is a little high: 14.2" compared to 13.7" for other 150mm travel bikes. If it were half an inch lower I would have bought a new one and stuck with it.

BTW coogan, that's one stunning bike. Love the look of the Moment, but couldn't handle the high BB.
Are the silver & grey 5 Spots anodised or painted? The blue is obviously painted.

there is always the nicolai ac or am. surprised geetee has not mentioned either of these

justme – Member
cooga hows the 5spot with the lyrics on does it wander on climbs etc /to slack /just right comments please g

Its fine. Funny, was out today on it's second ride and up some steep climbs realised I felt no need to wind them down. No wander, no lifting. Just felt a-okay.

Big Chris – Member
BTW coogan, that's one stunning bike. Love the look of the Moment, but couldn't handle the high BB.
Are the silver & grey 5 Spots anodised or painted? The blue is obviously painted.

Mine is raw, as in no paint or ano. I love the look, some I know don't.

Now with TI spring goodness 😀

Coogan – You win my "bike I most want to ride of the day" award. Or your Turner does anyway, looks like brilliant fun.

Big Chris – Did you consider one of these as a possible alternative to the Turner? I'm almost tempted myself tbh.

How do you find the Spot with a coil? Looking at the linkage path and the fact the rate becomes regressive (unless i am mistaken?) at the end of the shock does it bottom out easy?

I'm loving it with the coil. I just prefer coils personally. Checked with Turner and they said it'd been designed to take air or coil. Can't say I've noticed it bottoming out easily, but then I'm a complete luddite with bikes, set them up to go boing and then go boing on them.

Either way, your bike looks great 🙂

Well, this one's getting interesting. Think the Ellsworth is out of the running – I hear what you are saying about light=flexy. After 2 years with my Meta, I need to feel more confidence in my back end(if you get my drift..)Been doing some number crunching & a large Turner would be my size, but the head tube would be a fraction too long for the steerer on my Fox Float RL forks. Can't afford new forks as well.
After more research, I'm seriously looking at the Ventana el Ciclon. Understated, but very highly rated. I was offered a secondhand one, but reckon the large he was offering would be too long in the TT (609mm) My Meta is 570mm & a bit too short, but almost 40mm extra is a lot. The Ventana medium is 585mm TT- probably about right.
BTW, I rode a friends Iron Horse MK3 a while ago & personally found it sluggish feeling- no zip in the acceleration.
I am also a fan of straight tubes & simple clean lines. I was looking at the Intense Tracer the other day & whilst it grabs your attention with its "look at me" curves, I think I'd soon get fed up with the flashiness of it.
If I go for the Ventana, it would probably be in this custom colour:
http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=353574&stc=1&d=1208691762
Stunning, I reckon. £1299 + £150 for the custom colour, as I don't like the "nail varnish red" or the "disco sparkle black" stock colours.

Have you looked at the Chumba VF2? I obviously am biased, but i believe they are one of the stiffest bikes in its class and has exceptional build quality. It is a 4 bar design similar to the Ventana too.

I weigh the same as you and have an Ellworth id that is 5 years old and still going strong (rode it at Gisburn today) and this year I bought an Ellsworth Moment.. Flexy is just not a word that would ever be used to describe them. look at the singletrack review they express wonder at how Ells worth achieve such stifness.

Turners are great bikes, they do tend to be heavier and that might mean stronger but my moment has proved plenty strong enough for me to use on world cup DH courses and trips to the alps. As well as being abused at Innerleithen and other uk centres.

I went from a Moment to a DW Spot back in March. Huge difference!
Way way stiffer, pedals better with no wallow and doesn't hang up on certain hits, plush and nice and active under braking – better axle path too. Took it to the Alps in June and was way more confident on it than any of the Alpine trips I made on the Moment. It blasted down everything I threw at it.

You also know that the designer stands behind his product 100% and no need to worry about shady warranty or BS (TE has a famous history, plus my own experience of it). I emailed Dave Turner a question this morning and got a reply this afternoon – 7:30am his time. So you can bypass any bu11shit from distributors too.

I won't go into the hassles I had with two frames, crap I got from Freeborn and the legendary crap from Tony Ellsworth.

At the end of the day TE is not a designer, innovator or engineer… he's more of a money man… Plus he's now got caught up in producing bendy tubes.

They like to fly too 😀

And when other bikes can't take anymore, one is still raring to go

Nice pics ChunkyMTB.
Chumba is an interesting option. I'll look into them.
Does anyone know the wheelbase measurements for the 5 Spot medium & large. Not stated on their website. My Meta is 1105 & I put its twichiness down to the WB (or more probably the front centre-BB to front axle) being too short for me. It's a difficult one that I probably wont get an answer to except by riding them back to back.
I had a great night ride last night for 3 hours on the Meta, & decided that I don't mind the short top tube & 70mm stem to keep it fun & flicky, but it's a hard bike to keep in a straight line when I want to. This has been the cause of several serious stacks on rides where I've been a bit off my game for one reason or another.
Nobody anywhere near Suffolk sells proper bikes like these. I had to get the Meta mail order from Glasgow Cycles. I have enough experience now to know what I want when I ride it, but discerning which numbers really matter is another thing. I mean, if it was as easy as connecting a load of tubes of the right length together at the right angles, there wouldn't be any bikes with that special feel. & why do 2 bikes with the same angles feel so different?
WHICH NUMBERS REALLY MATTER?? (or is it none- all in the ride?)

There was a really good article in a back issue of Dirt centred on the design evolution of Fabien Barel's World Cup Kona Stab. It really gave an insight into the whole geometry issue and answered perfectly the question you just posed.

The answer is that there is no one measurement that is any more important than any other; the key to understanding how a bike handles is to look at all the measurements in relation to each other, e.g. the HA, wheelbase, BB height, chain stays, front centre etc, all of these measurements must be taken into consideration in relation to each other. To illustrate the point a bike with a relatively steep head angle might feel more stable than one with a shallower angle if the former had a lower BB and a longer wheel base.

By the way, you really should look at the Nicolai range if you want strength, stiffness and quality. Both the Helius AC and AM should be on your list (as IanPinder points out); If you email Simon at Nicolai UK he can let you know where you can get a test ride closest to you: simon@nicolai-uk.com