Wondering if someone could provide some guidance on an issue my sister is having. Whilst she goes through life being a bit of a drama magnet in general quite a few of the dramas aren't actually her doing, including this one.
She's a company director, company doing well, she's ordered a Porsche Taycan 4S. Took delivery in March, enjoyed it for ~4 weeks and then in April got stranded at a conference in London when it refused to charge up. Called up the lease company who spoke to Porsche who sent an AA man who proceeded to brick the entire car. Car lifted onto a truck and taken to the local Porsche dealer who told her it would be a 3-5 day job to sort out - apparently a "common issue" with the Taycan - and the lease company arranged a Volvo hire car. Almost zero contact other than to moan about having to fix a car bought/leased from someone other than them and 5 weeks later it's just been delivered back to her in exactly the same state, with the added bonus of now registering as stolen with the tracker company and so is extra super disabled. It appears Porsche down south have done effectively nothing with the car while they've had it and the car is now (hopefully) off to Porsche up north for further investigation. In the meantime the lease company are refusing to either a) cancel the lease or b) reduce/refund the (significant) difference between Porsche lease price and Volvo lease price. My sister is an exceptionally busy person with numerous business and personal commitments so I've said I'll look into this for her. I'm pretty sure there's a contract not being adhered to here but not entirely sure where to start, other than getting her to send me the contract she has with the hire company.
I seem to remember someone here having an issue with leasing cars from Ling so thought I'd ask to see if there was a direction I should be heading based on that experience.
Company directors get their tame lawyer on to this stuff.
Get it to Porsche Reading (which is where Porsche U.K. are based) and kick up a fuss
Company directors get their tame lawyer on to this stuff.
It's not a multinational conglomerate. <20 employees I think and all the legal stuff, HR, payroll, etc. is contracted out as far as I'm aware. I'll ask her if they have a solicitor on retainer though.
Get it to Porsche Reading (which is where Porsche U.K. are based) and kick up a fuss
That would require Porsche Reading to uplift from Sheffield. It's entirely immobilised at the moment. I'll let her know where to complain about the Porsche dealer down south though.
Will they not just direct her back to the lease company though as that's ultimately who she has the contract with?
Has she spoken to Porsche customer services ?
Is she on a fully maintained contract ?
when ever I’ve had personal lease cars I’ve had to sort any issues with the manufacturer
I had an issue with my lease car that took 2 weeks to fix. I took it straight to the main dealer, as I was responsible for maintenance, and dealt with them directly. Not sure that my lease company even knew.
As I'd expect they gave me a courtesy car then when it became a long one they hired us a car. I wasn't going to whinge about the fact it was a different type of car, I'm not that precious, but I did consider asking them to compensate us for the extra £150 or so we had to spend on diesel over electricity. Didn't bother in the end because I couldn't face the hassle.
I’m pretty sure there’s a contract not being adhered to here
What, specifically?
The lease compsny may argue that the faulty car is a Porche issue. They have sorted out a replacement car. Now up to Porche to fix the broken car.
In the meantime having to drive a Volvo instead of a Porche isn't the end of the world. Is there likely to be a lot of Porche Taycan cars sitting about to be handed out as courtesy cars?
As the lease company didn't break the Porche they may not see why any difference between the Volvo and Porche lease costs is their problem.
Perhaps use the Consumer Rights Act against the leasing company, especially if the first fault was within 30 days. The contract is with the leasing company. They should be sorting things out because essentially the product/service provided has never been satisfactory.
Porsche/Audi/VW/Seat whatever. Just get on Instagram/twitter/YouTube and it’ll be sorted. Maybe.
I’m surprised that an established company with the heritage of Porsche would have such problems with an EV.
No way would your ‘sister’ be better off with a higher performance car from an American upstart motor company.
You're leasing it, it's still yours for the duration even if it's not working currently. The lease contract simply guarantees a car, I don't think it is ever going to guarantee that it works at all times. For that you'd need to be long term hiring or doing one of those subscription jobs.
The contract is with the leasing company.
And it's the wording in that that matters. I bet you £1 that it doesn't guarantee access to that specific model of car at all times.
Our neighbours terminated a lease because the car that arrived was filthy and not in suitable state, it was supposed to be a new car.
The lease contract simply guarantees a car, I don’t think it is ever going to guarantee that it works at all times.
With reference to the Consumer Rights Act, if it failed in the first 30 days then the OP's sister can say it was not of satisfactory quality and is entitled to a full refund. It fails within the first 6 months, then the supplier (which is the lease company) has one opportunity to fix it. If this fails the you can get a full refund.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl
I don't think the lease company has a leg to stand on. They need to provide another car that's equivalent to the borked Porsche, fix the Porsche quickly or offer a refund/compensation and termination of the contract.
Also, fixing the Porsche should not be the OP's sister's concern.
Ah, wait... is this business to business? Consumer Rights Act doesn't apply there. Who's actually taken out the lease? Your sister or your sister's business?
Sounds like it should be the lease companies problem no? It's their car and their commitment to your very import, busy sister is to supply a working vehicle for her use...
Just tell the lease company you'll be withholding payment as they haven't supplied a working vehicle...
It's a company car scheme where company provides up to £x/month and employee uses that to lease a car. She pays BIK but I'm not sure if that makes it company to company lease, I'm not 100% how this stuff works because I've never had a company car. The Consumer Rights Act stuff that @dmorts mentions is what I was thinking. Just outside 30 days for the fault but definitely <6 months. The contract is with the leasing company so I'd expect them to be sorting: If I hire a Golf from Enterprise and the ECU shits itself and the immobiliser renders it useless I'm not going to take it to the nearest VW garage, I'm going to call Enterprise.
No way would your ‘sister’
What an odd thing to be suspicious of... she's definitely my sister 😆
It surprises me that in situations like this large companies need reminding of their contracts and the loss of good will and reputation at stake.
I understand things go wrong but they do rarely get handled brilliantly. (I suppose we don’t always hear those stories)
Great opportunity to give great customer backup and service in the OP’s sisters case.
I’m sure that Porsche UK have/will make a good sum from this lease deal with servicing over the term, the lease co will do well from the monthly and residual. Step up to the plate and treat the customer like you want them to get another car!
I think the usual course of action here is to settle for £500 plus VAT
It’s a lease via salary sacrifice. What does the contract say about courtesy car provision in this situation? That’s all that matters as this is what your sister has signed up and agreed to. Go away, read it and decide what the breach is and go from there.
Everything else is speculation.
Had a further think about this.
Sounds like Porsche have moved the car from down south to up north, which sounds reasonable to me. (Not sure we are getting the full story)
When my lease cars have been in for a service the dealer have provided courtesy cars, which has then been charged to the lease company (fully maintained contracts)
I've done personal leases for the last half dozen or so cars I've had. I wouldn't expect the lease company to do anything except take the car away at the end of the lease period.
What I don't understand is why you've got a brand new Porsche which doesn't work and isn't just being fixed by Porsche under warranty? That's where the fault is to me.
I wouldn’t expect the lease company to do anything except take the car away at the end of the lease period.
Reading a few lease providers' guides on what to do with a faulty car could make you think that you have to sort it with the car manufacturer yourself. This might be the best course of action if it's a minor issue instead of cancelling lease and waiting for another car. Ultimately though for persistent issues you could have recourse against the lease provider under the Consumer Rights Act (if it's a personal lease)
Google
"BVRLA Guide to Consumer Rights" and there's a PDF with it all in
Sounds like Porsche have moved the car from down south to up north, which sounds reasonable to me. (Not sure we are getting the full story)
Porsche down south have delivered the "fixed" car directly to my sister's home address after having it for 5 weeks. Car is still in the bricked state with the added bonus of now identifying as stolen according to some app my sister has, and confirmed by the tracker company. My sister has called Porsche Sheffield based on the garbage customer service she got from Porsche down south in the hope that the Sheffield dealership are better. That's the entire story as far as I've been told.
My point with the lease company is surely my sister can't be expected to be on the hook for repair of a 6 week old £100k car. She has a contract with a lease company for the supply of a particular car - it could be a Reliant Kitten for all it matters - and the car they have supplied is completely unusable not even 2 months after delivery. The lease company are expecting her to carry on paying the lease rates for a car she cannot use and is clearly unfit for purpose - this is based on a) the car being bricked and b) Porsche down south telling her this is a common issue on the Taycan. How many of us here would be happy to just suck up that situation with a shrug of the shoulders and an "oh well, them's the breaks" as what I imagine to be an astronomical monthly fee leaves the current account every month?
Quite a lot of businesses do just have to suck up things like this, as recourse requires legal action. If it was a personal lease I wouldn't tolerate it at all and would be exercising my rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which isn't an option for businesses).
Scanned through this & tbh sounds like you need more details from your sister.
It’s unclear (to me) if this is a personal lease undertaken by your sister or if this is a salary sacrifice where her Ltd company has undertaken a business to business lease.
I suspect the latter which is a much different situation.
I’d suggest as great as the community is here you’d be better served clarifying as much details as you can & then posting over on pistonheads in speed, plod & the law or car buying sub forums asking for some guidance.
Hang on, you are definitely trolling here OP.
I just don't buy it, a "director" leases a £100k vehicle as their company car, stuff goes tits up with it and rather than raise hell themselves they delegate the issue to their brother who apparently knows nothing about car leasing?
It really doesn't wash.
Neither of my sisters are directors, both however are pretty intelligent and they would never delegate something like this to me (quite rightly too)...
A colleague of mine had endless problems with an Audi e-Tron (back in ore covid days) Audi were covering the cost of the lease whilst it was with them and providing a q7 FOC
what I don’t understand is why is the car back with your sister? I can’t imagine a situation where a dealer just gives up and loads a broken car back onto a transporter and delivers it to a customer as there’s clearly no way that ends well. Has there been a degree of flouncing here?
I do think you'll need to get some more detail from your sister before a course of action can be decided, but as cookeaa says give Pistonheads a try.
There is a general leasing thread here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=255&t=1856732&p=71
Or you could post a new thread in the general Car Buying forum.
It will also be worth having a read through the Porsche EV threads to see how common these problems are as I'm sure there will be people who have gone through the same problems from Porsche and leasing companies.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=275
Only sensible thing to do first is to get the contract and read it.
Of course, the alternative approach that seems to be applied nowadays is to publicly contact the MD via twitter.
And nobody has asked for pictures of the sister yet? This place is growing up!🤣
If I hire a Golf from Enterprise and the ECU shits itself and the immobiliser renders it useless I’m not going to take it to the nearest VW garage, I’m going to call Enterprise.
The terms and conditions of a hire agreement are not the same as those of a lease.
surely my sister can’t be expected to be on the hook for repair of a 6 week old £100k car.
No. It's Porche on the hook as they provide the new car warranty. It may be the she has to wait a few weeks for Porche to repair or replace. Until then (shock horror) she may just need to suffer driving a Volvo.
Has there been a degree of flouncing here?
See my original comment about drama magnet... We've no idea why it's been delivered back to her either. And flouncing or not (knowing my sister there has probably been a degree of flouncing) the car is broken: you don't just quit trying to fix it and deliver it back to the customer in an unusable state.
Definitely no trolling @cookeaa. She's a highly strung individual with multiple ongoing things that need her attention at the moment. I'm being a good big brother and trying to alleviate as much stress as I can from her. And yes she's an actual director and not a "director", whatever that's meant to imply. Why such unwillingness to take things at face value?
Btw, all this stuff is part of reason why I left Sheffield and moved to Scotland when it was suggested I join the company... 😅
Only sensible thing to do first is to get the contract and read it.
This. RTFM! And then call the leasing company (if they will speak to you), and then calmly and nicely ask them what's going on. This won't be the first time it's happened.
Probably there is a clause in the contract that says they can provide you with e.g. a reasonable subsititute. Then you're having a disagreement about whether the Volvo is or isn't a reasonable substitute - fine.
So just asked her, it's a lease to her company with no salary sacrifice involved. She only pays BIK.
I don't think she's such a snob that driving a Volvo offends her. She's just feeling aggrieved that she's driving a Volvo while being charged Porsche money.
Has she sent you the contract yet?
I don’t think she’s such a snob that driving a Volvo offends her. She’s just feeling aggrieved that she’s driving a Volvo while being charged Porsche money.
This answer to that is, 'it depends' there are a few factors outside of purchase price that dictate the lease cost. sometimes the differences aren't that great when they are factored in.
She's sending tomorrow when she's back in the office
This answer to that is, ‘it depends’ there are a few factors outside of purchase price that dictate the lease cost.
A quick look at a business lease website suggests the Taycan is 295% more expensive than the XC60, with a net difference of £842/month between the two. Worth questioning in my book.
Friend in the village has Taycan and spends more time in the Porsche demo and courtesy fleet than his own car. Issues and parts delays. The 911's are nice, but not comfortable for his 3 lanky lads.
I'm interested to see where this goes, but someone somewhere owns this car and have a warranty for Porsche to service.
Spare parts might be the rub tho' - as well as the id table reliability. If I want a new Mg/Tesla/Kia/Polestar/Hyundai.. I can get one in weeks or few months. New Audi or VW group,,,, May next year
It is a fascinating thread. I’m not a lease kind of person. But I’d assumed it would make things easier if the vehicle went wrong
I reasonably sympathetic to the OP and sister. Particularly the bricked car being returned
Not wanting to come over as sexist but are you sure that the car is not functional and the issues are not related to how to operate the vehicle? My main vehicle is an 07 plate S-Max and on the rare occasions I drive a modern car - normally hired for a work job - I often have to spend quite a while getting my head around how everything works. This is probably not the case but I am struggling with the concept of the car being returned in a non-operational state as surely there must be tests to be ticked off as part of the repair process.
I’m not a lease kind of person. But I’d assumed it would make things easier if the vehicle went wrong
It doesn't make a difference. You can opt to have maintenance as part of the lease, or pay for your own. But when it breaks down the result is the same, either you take it to the main dealer under warranty or the lease company tells you to take it to the main dealer.
You're leasing a car, not subscribing to a service with availability terms. You still have the car regardless of whether or not it's working. The warranty provider (i.e. Porsche) pro ably have a clause in their warranty T&C's offering a replacement car.
Ive got a work ev lease through Tusker Salary Sacrifice. You get to select what kind of replacement you want and its priced accordingly.
It is a fascinating thread. I’m not a lease kind of person. But I’d assumed it would make things easier if the vehicle went wrong
Same.
You’re leasing a car, not subscribing to a service with availability terms
If I go to Enterprise and hire a minibus to move a number of people about and it breaks down it's not much good to me if they offer a FIAT 500 as a replacement is it?
As you say, you're leasing a car, not the potential of a car.
Not wanting to come over as sexist but are you sure that the car is not functional and the issues are not related to how to operate the vehicle? My main vehicle is an 07 plate S-Max and on the rare occasions I drive a modern car – normally hired for a work job – I often have to spend quite a while getting my head around how everything works. This is probably not the case but I am struggling with the concept of the car being returned in a non-operational state as surely there must be tests to be ticked off as part of the repair process.
Given it's been in a garage for a few weeks not I'd rule out user error.
Taycan is 295% more expensive than the XC60,
We don't know what Volvo it is, if its one of these I wouldn't be too upset...
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/volvo/volvo-v90-t8-twin-engine-2017-review/
If I go to Enterprise and hire a minibus to move a number of people about and it breaks down it’s not much good to me if they offer a FIAT 500 as a replacement is it?
Yeah because it won't do the same job. The Volvo will do the same job as the Porsche.
You missed my next sentence though:
As you say, you’re leasing a car, not the potential of a car.
If I pay the extra for a Porsche I'm not paying it to potentially lease a Porsche.
I've had company cars for almost 20 years.
There are several issues here:
It's the Lease company's responsibility to get the car fixed, but as the diver, you have a role to play too: dropping-off, picking up, and (to a reasonable degree) coordinating the repairs. What I mean is: the driver is involved in the process. Which is where I'd like to politely suggest this might have fallen down.
I think the critical thing to understand is why Porsche (south) returned the car to your sister, unfixed. That seems to be the main issue.
I would be speaking to them first and find out what the actual issue with the car is, and why they sent it back to your sister. Based on that, I would then be asking your sister why she has had the car shipped from "south" to Sheffield. Do Sheffield Porsche have a plan/idea of how to fix it? If so, what is it?
Then, once you know that, I would be talking to the Lease company, and trying to explain what's happening with the car, and what the plan is to fix it. Hopefully part of that conversation is whether it's reasonable that your sister is paying Porsche money, but getting a volvo for an extended period - if it is indeed going to be off the road for an extended period.
The issue is that the lease company will have ordered the Taycan especially, they don't just have high value cars like that laying about to give people as loaners. Maybe they do have something a bit nicer than the volvo that they could give to your sister, or (once Porsche get the car back) they could ask Porsche to provide a loaner that's a bit more s****y.
Either way - ignore all the "contracts" chat - just get on the phone to people and start having some polite, human conversations. Once people understand that you are trying to resolve the problem, they'll start playing along.
My guess is that Porsche (south) told your sister that it needs a new part, and that they don't know how long it's going to take. I suspect that your sister either demanded, or just agreed, to take the car back.... which is the point that this went off the rails. Really you just want the lease company and Porsche to be talking to each other re the repairs, and coming to an agreement re: temporary car provision
I have no real value to add here. However I do have to ask… She didn’t lease it from Lings did she?
Thinks for the input batfink. The story as I understand it from my sister is:
Car driven to London, parked up and plugged in overnight but no charge in the morning. Called the lease company who called Porsche who called the AA who bricked the car. Car was lifted onto a truck and taken to Porsche down south who said it was a common issue and they expected it to be fixed within 3-5 days. There was then almost no contact from them over the next 4 weeks or so, and when chased up by my sister they moaned about having to fix a car they didn't sell. Again a period of no contact and when my sister called once more to get an update she was told the car was being delivered back to her that day. The car arrived on Saturday lunchtime, still completely dead. She can't even switch it on. On top of this the tracker app she has reports the car as stolen, which has been confirmed by the tracking company. They tried to remotely reset the car's security system but they cannot communicate with it. At this point my sister called Porsche Sheffield, because that's where she lives, that's where the car is now located, and because she has lost all faith in Porsche down south. Porsche Sheffield have suggested that Porsche down south haven't fixed any part of the car and are now in the process of figuring out why it has been returned to my sister.
I'm awaiting the lease contract being sent over by my sis today to see exactly who should be deealing with what.
Again I think some people are missing the point somewhat. It's not that she's currently driving about in a XC60. It's that she (or her company) is paying in excess of £1300/month for the privilege, when a straight up lease for a XC60 is more in the region of £450/month, and the lease company are telling her to suck it up. She thinks that's unfair, as do I, and I'm trying to help her sort it.
It baffles me that they think they can still charge Porsche money when supplying your sister with a Volvo.
Her contract is to have a Taycan to drive around in, the lease company are not keeping up their end of the bargain.
Her contract is to have a Taycan to drive around in
Is it?
If I pay the extra for a Porsche I’m not paying it to potentially lease a Porsche.
She still has a Porsche which she's paying for. Is there a ause in the contract that specifies she'll get a replacement of equivalent value in the event it needs fixing? Doubt it.
Yeah because it won’t do the same job. The Volvo will do the same job as the Porsche.
Are you telling me you'd be fine with paying £1500/month for a Porsche and being given a Volvo XC60 (£700/month) for an indeterminate period of time instead (but already more than 1 month)? I call BS if you say yes. For sure if this was just for a couple of weeks then having the Volvo whilst it's fixed would be reasonable but it's been in for repair for 5 weeks and still no sign of it actually being repaired. I'd certainly be expecting Porsche to be covering at least the difference in lease costs, or providing a Taycan S courtesy car in the meantime.
As for what the OP's sister can do, no idea - although I'd be posting on Porsche UK and the leasing company's Twitter feed by now and sending emails.
I have leased cars for years the dealer never has to give you a like for like car, years ago we used to get better cars but now generally similar if you're lucky. My company will now only pay a certain amount for hire car when previously the policy was just get back on the road at any cost, buy my own cars now.
Anytime I had a company lease car that needed servicing/repairs I got whatever courtesy car they had to hand. I’m guessing some contracts may differ and will provide like for like replacements.
I’ve also heard recent tales of new Porsche EV’s suffering issues with the heater matrix meaning that lots of people drove through this winter with no heating as the chips needed to remedy/fix are unavailable.
First world problems, eh?
She still has a Porsche which she’s paying for.
Even the most decorated of big hitters here would surely have to admit that paying for a Porsche that works is an entirely different proposition to paying for a Porsche that doesn't. She hasn't leased a Porsche-shaped object to sit on the drive and impress the neighbours.
Not wanting to add to her 'woes' but she'll also need her BIK 'updated' as I'm guessing the Volvo isn't an EV and it'll be higher.
Still struggling to understand this bit:
Car was lifted onto a truck and taken to Porsche down south who said it was a common issue and they expected it to be fixed within 3-5 days. There was then almost no contact from them over the next 4 weeks or so, and when chased up by my sister they moaned about having to fix a car they didn’t sell.
Almost no contact for 4 weeks - didn't your Sister (or someone who works for her company) hassle them daily?
Not sure about daily, but yes she tried. That was when she got the moany person complaining about fixing a car that the Porsche down south didn't personally sell.
Not sure the BIK is an issue. Her company car is still the Porche. It just happens be in for repair just now.
As I posted earlier I suspect you’ll get a lot more support/knowledge about how to get a better outcome with the lease company over on piston heads, though to be fair they have there fair share of fud’s too.
Her contract is to have a Taycan to drive around in
Is it?
Neither you nor the person you are replying to have read the fqcking contract!!! It is pointless bickering over what it says.
That was when she got the moany person complaining about fixing a car that the Porsche down south didn’t personally sell.
This doesn't make sense as the dealer will be paid by Porsche for the warranty repair - it doesn't matter who sold the car.
The car arrived on Saturday lunchtime, still completely dead. She can’t even switch it on. On top of this the tracker app she has reports the car as stolen, which has been confirmed by the tracking company.
Well it would have been driven onto the delivery vehicle (unless it was lifted on but doubtful) so presumably it was working when it left the southern dealer. Could the fact that it's now 'stolen', for some reason, result in it being immobilised and the reason why she can't get it to do anything?
I've got a Tusker lease car, the documents and FAQs are very clear with what happens in a case like this for me on my scheme. If you check your sisters lease documents should be similarly clear it's a common occurence.
T&Cs for me are
1) I am still liable to pay for the lease if the vehicle is broken or in for repair. It's very clearly stated early in the contract in big bold letters. They're leasing me a car not providing a rental service
2) It needs to go the dealer or whoever the lease company deem needs to repair
3) The lease company will provide me a relief car if mine is off the road for >24hours. They are very clear that they have no responsibility to provoide something comparable in value, perforamance etc. I do seem to remeber when I took out the lease there was opportunity to upgrade this but I didn't bother. The dealer could also offer a courtesy car which might be better but again it's a lucky dip.
Not sure the BIK is an issue. Her company car is still the Porche. It just happens be in for repair just now.
It is, you're wrong.
TheFlyingOx
Full Member
Not sure about daily, but yes she tried. That was when she got the moany person complaining about fixing a car that the Porsche down south didn’t personally sell.
This doesn’t make sense as the dealer will be paid by Porsche for the warranty repair – it doesn’t matter who sold the car.
Agreed, I wouldn't expect that sort of response from any main dealer, never mind one like Porsche. It would also be the time to run out of patience with them, escalate a complaint within the dealership and then call Porsche customer services to tell them what their dealer is up to.
Email/Call to Porsche customer service asking why the dealer has failed to fix the car and the poor customer service. Request that they uplift the car to a suitably qualified dealer to fix the issue, which needs to be expedited due to the previous poor customer service.
Play nicely and the warranty/customer service people are more receptive, Porsche will look pretty dimly on dealers not doing their job and will be dealt with. Entering a Twitter shit slinging match is the last resort.
There was then almost no contact from them over the next 4 weeks or so, and when chased up by my sister they moaned about having to fix a car they didn’t sell.
They will be paid via the Porsche warranty system, if they are good, they make money, if they are shit (which sounds like they are) they lose money.
I have diamond cut wheels that were refinishing by the dealer (not actually done by them but by their chosen company) but showed moisture under the clear coat after about 14 months. The word from the dealer/company was that diamond cut wheels are not as resilient to damage and not really for every day cars.
I wasn't best pleased with this answer so spoke to Porsche customer services who were not best pleased about the response I had received - the wheels were refinished again FOC.
They will be paid via the Porsche warranty system, if they are good, they make money, if they are shit (which sounds like they are) they lose money.
Indeed.... not all Porsche dealers are equal!
Just like to commend everyone for being so kind on what is without question the most FWP thread I've ever seen on here 😃
She would probably prefer a working car, agreed, but no-one is choosing a Porsche EV as their company car instead of something normal and boring like, say, an Audi, without the sole intention of impressing the neighbours 😂She hasn’t leased a Porsche-shaped object to sit on the drive and impress the neighbours.
Neither you nor the person you are replying to have read the fqcking contract!!! It is pointless bickering over what it says.
I know, that was my first post. I'm just predicting what it'll say.
However I fully agree Porsche have been shit here.
This doesn’t make sense as the dealer will be paid by Porsche for the warranty repair – it doesn’t matter who sold the car.
There's a fair bit of tribalism in the industry, and if you have a high workload for warranty etc, dealer/workshops try to keep existing customers sweet instead of someone who is never going to visit, or spend money, again.
Though manufacturers/importers take a very dim view of it.
intheborders
Free MemberNot sure the BIK is an issue. Her company car is still the Porche. It just happens be in for repair just now.
It is, you’re wrong.
Looks like the BIK isn't affected for repairs under 30 days.
The definition of unavailable (see EIM25105) means that if a car is not available for a period of less than 30 days, the employee is charged as though it were still available. If during that period the employee is provided with a replacement car, for example when the normal car is being repaired, the employee is still charged for the full year on the normal car without time apportionment. There could also be a separate charge on the employee for the replacement car.
Section 145 ITEPA 2003 removes the charge on a replacement car in most circumstances where the normal car is not available for less than 30 consecutive days.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim25125
There’s a fair bit of tribalism in the industry, and if you have a high workload for warranty etc, dealer/workshops try to keep existing customers sweet instead of someone who is never going to visit, or spend money, again.
Absolutely - and I think that warranty work is at a set rate and is not a profitable as normal servicing work. But they should still not grumble.
but no-one is choosing a Porsche EV as their company car instead of something normal and boring like, say, an Audi, without the sole intention of impressing the neighbours 😂
True story that. If they were buying for the driving experience they would have got a proper model 😉😂
She still has a Porsche which she’s paying for.
She has their broken Porsche. Difference.
I could understand this argument if we were talking about PCP but we're not. It's a lease.
As I said, I've never done this before but from the outside looking in it seems absolutely mental that in the event that the product you're hiring doesn't work you get a lesser product in substitution and still pay the premium rate. That some people are happy with this arrangement is even more mind boggling.
She's not hiring it, she's leasing it. There's a difference.
If you buy a car, it breaks and it goes back to the garage for warranty repair, you should get a courtesy car. There's no guarantee that it's going to be the same car or the same level of car - how could there be? This is like that. But it should be laid out in the T&Cs.
Note I'm not saying this is great, I'm saying this is probably what it is.
'I’m surprised that an established company with the heritage of Porsche would have such problems with an EV.
No way would your ‘sister’ be better off with a higher performance car from an American upstart motor company.'
I'll trade actually having cars and spare parts for having an 'established heritage' :-).
I really fancied a Taycan, now not so much ! 🤷♂️