Edukator

Hardly any of Junior’s ESF colleagues wear a helmet.

Fashion

OK they’re riding at a level way above most punters and have lots of skills and awareness in reserve but there’s almost no downside to wearing one so it’s fashion. Whether that’s because they don’t look good with shades or they give you a nasty tan line, it’s just vanity.

Please don’t worry about your frustrations regarding learning. As others have said its tricky as you’re doing something completely new, using muscles you haven’t used before (or hardly ever). It will come though and before you know if you’ll be parallel skiing. Everyone wants everything to be quick and easy and skiing isn’t for most people.
Just enjoy being in the fresh air and mountain scenery.
Oh and make sure your children learn the rules of the piste eg, looking before setting off on a slope, standing to the side of the piste while waiting/taking a breather, etc.

I could go into the full ESF no helmets logic, speeder, but it’s great that you think it’s vanity and fashion so keep thinking that way.

I’m not ESF but haven’t put my goggles on this year yet in about 15 days, you probably think my false Coco Channel sunnies are vanity too. But there was no-one around to see me when I went out at the crack of dawn this morning to have the resort to myself before the lifts opened. I don’t wear goggles on my bike or on the beach either though they would now doubt be more useful on the beach than the pistes on windy days.

Check out stats on how people get injured skiing. The vast majority do it all by themselves, collisions are a minority – around 10% depending on the study. And make sure you wear your helmet in your car on your drive to the resort, head injuries are the main cause of death in road traffic accidents. If 8 million people ski in France each year then proportionally more people get serious head injuries in cars. Now consider what would happen if everyone had to wear a helmet in a car all the time. On rally road sections we were asked to take our helmets off.

Anyhow a Canadian study found no difference in head injury rates between wearers and no wearers. Snowboarders had more head injuries than skiers and the decline in boarding has had a positive influence on reducing head injuries.

Conclusion – buy helmets for your kids and maybe put one on yourself if you intend to ski beyond your ability or it’s particularly icy.

502  error double post on refreshing

I’m interested, does anyone have a view on whether skiers should wear helmets or not? 😉

As a snowboarder, i can’t see that the risk of brain damage would cause any issue for most skiers.
Further damage just isn’t possible.
😜

Fashion

OK they’re riding at a level way above most punters and have lots of skills and awareness in reserve but there’s almost no downside to wearing one so it’s fashion. Whether that’s because they don’t look good with shades or they give you a nasty tan line, it’s just vanity.

Utter rubbish.

I personally think one should wear a helmet (having been in an accident and banging my head, as did my friend the day before, when she got taken out by a ESF instructor).

But the OP has said he will wear one as will his family, this is a good decision IMO.

Got back (late) last night from a week in Passo Tonale, same hotel as OP’s booked and I promised a check-back-in, so here goes.

It dumped it down with snow from the day we arrived until about day 4/5. The snow conditions on the pistes (and off) are fantastic and I don’t think I’ve seen so much snow before. Visibility was pretty gash for much of the week; a couple of clear days showed the place off for just how beautiful the surrounding mountain range is though.

For us, family learning to ski, the place is ideal. All the slops in Passo lead back to the same main road through the village, meaning you really can’t go far wrong direction wise even if you can’t see as far as the next chairlift in front of you at times.

Hotel (Grand Paradiso) was largely great; room was good (I believe the basic rooms are very much basic though – we were in a ‘Deluxe Twin Room with Balcony’ if that help any. All of the staff were great, super friendly and helpful.

Food was good for a mass-buffet style – they’re catering for a wide audience so bear that in mind, we ate well all week.

Location-wise, the hotel’s about 10 mins walk (either by piste or road) to the main drag. And the main drag is not that main, it’s a small village spread along the main road. We were with our 5 year old so were largely holed up at the hotel but there are quite a few bars/shops/restaurants to be found that all l0oked decent.

Some practical stuff you might find useful:

– The on-site ski shop is *slow*. As in, be prepared to wait at least an hour, maybe longer, whilst the two young lads move at glacial pace in no real sort of order or system whilst several moany faced Brits sigh and huff in impatience. It’s a drag and a cack way to start the week but get it over with as soon as you can after arriving and it’s done. Drop-off took 2 minutes at the end of the week. It’s just how things work over there, they don’t do systems or organisation so acceptance is key.

– Ski school day one seems like absolute chaos, but unlike the hire shop above – do bear with it as there is a system. Promise.

Head to the meet-up point (Sunday’s lesson usually starts later, presumably to give everyone a chance to get their hire kit sorted out) and is at the bottom of the piste by the magic carpet lifts. You can walk along the road (faster) or along the snow (nicer in ski boots). Road – the easiest way in as just past the war memorial and through the car park. Along the snow: it’s a wee bit past the huge construction crane and ‘We Will Meat You Soon’ cafe (which is good for morning coffee/snacks).

A man with a megaphone will shout instructions; the gist of which being – if you’ve never skiied before, join this group, if you’ve skiied a little, join that group, etc. From seeing the couple of ‘have a go Harrys’ we had, who counted the single run they wobbled down that morning as ‘having skiied before’, go lower if in doubt.

They’ll get you to do a short run and then put you into the right group anyway.

Our instructor was fantastic, we learned a tonne in the 3 x 2 hour lessons with her. From chatting with others at the hotel, it seems like all the instructors were great so you should be in good hands there.

Crystal seems to have booked the 9-11 slot for their crowds; we tended to set off from the hotel about 8:30 which gave plenty of time to waddle along, bash ice off skis/boots etc and be ready.

The janky metal staircase next to the hotel is hilariously sketchy in ski boots. Take it easy and you’ll be fine but there is an easier one about 50 yards along the road if you really don’t fancy it.

Runs-wise, there’s plenty to go at for beginners – your instructor will show you the best ones suited to your ability. Once you get your sea(ski?)-legs in, there’s a lovely long Blue right at the far end of the resort – Blue 34 – served by Chair 24. The restaurant at the top of that chair is good for lunch and the views are stunning on a clear day. Good pizzas for about a tenner too.

We never made it down to Legno, or the ski-away day so can’t comment on either. We were there to learn to ski (we’re experienced snowboarders but going bi whilst our wee one learns) and Passo was ace for this. I think we’d probably get bored by the end of the week had we been on the boards all the time (or as an experienced skier) as it’s not a vast resort but we enjoyed it at our stage of the game.

What else might be helpful…

The Spa/pool was quite nice, pool’s small and gets busy with kids between about 2 and 5pm (no kids allowed from 5-8pm).

There’s a well stocked and reasonably priced Spar shop at the far end of town (10-15 mins walk) which was good for snacks/chocs/fridge-beers etc if that’s your thing.

Lunch is best found away from the hotel. There’s a basic bar on-site which sells fairly expensive and miserable-looking thick slabs of lightly cheesed bread they call ‘pizza’ slices but they’re a bit crap, really. The beers were decent in there though.

Italian’s don’t do organised or order – get used to this early. Lunch ‘queues’ can be exasperating if you try and fight it. Go with the flow, accept it could be so much quicker/easier/more efficient if they just ‘XYZ’. It’s the same everywhere; restaurants, airport etc. Getting annoyed by it’s a fools errand.

If you’re lucky enough to get a clear sky day, I’m assured the trip up the gondola/glacier is well worth it for the views. We tried twice but couldn’t see a thing through the fog; your fortunes may vary. You can go up and down the gondola in normal footwear and no skis – if you’re a beginner, you probably won’t fancy the black run down much.

Anything else you need to know, just ask – happy to help if I can.

You should have a great time; we’d definitely go back.

Drat, just too late to edit the above post – was going to add some links for you.

Easier stairway / access up to the slopes (*which are literally up behind the hotel) is here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/FEvUBFpSdnNpVNNt5

Getting to Ski School (if walking along the road): https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ZysBjD5SJTvYnno7

Access via the car park between the war memorial and the chocolate shop and turn right once up onto the snow/slope.

Other bits that came to mind; the transfer takes about 2-3 hours. You pass Lake Iseo both ways (which is beautiful) – so if you can blag seats on the left (out) or right (back) you’ll get a glorious view of it. We arrived in the dark and it was still glorious to see all lit up at night.

The windy road up the mountain got pretty exciting in the heavy snow. If you get car-sick, pop a travel sickness pill once you land.

@jamesmio,

Thank you for taking the time to post those tips and updates, very much appreciated.

How was the temperature, is it “cold”?  We are all starting to getting a bit anxious about kit and it’s looming closer very quickly….

Nah, you’ll be fine. It hovered between about -3 and +5 most of the week. You’ll be working hard out on the hill, especially if you’re learning and there are plenty cafes to hole up in at break/down time.

I’m normally fine with a base layer + jacket on the top and base layer + ski/board trousers on the bottom.

Walking along to the Spar shop at night in horizontal snow/blizzard was nippy but it was only 15 mins.

I’m a bit spoiled cos I bought a really good Goretex snowboard jacket about 15 years ago (pre-child when disposable income was still a thing) and generally run hot anyway but even the Mrs who’s cold *all* the time wasn’t bothered at all by it.

Half decent ski gear – Decathlon / TK Maxx / decent used from Vinted is all you need to be comfy and dry.

A couple of pairs of proper ski socks would be worth picking up if you’ve got time. Again, don’t need to be fancy super-materials but the extra padding in the right places makes the boots a bit nicer.

My son and I went to Passo Tonale during the Half term week. First two days it snowed loads, then blue skies for the rest of the week – awesome. We stayed in Hotel Cielo Blu – its a basic hotel, clean, warm and food was fine. Perfect location – 5 mins from the ski school.

My son had 4 snowboard lessons at local dry ski slope ad this was his first Alpine trip. I had not snow boarded for 18 years (but had done a lot before that) and was linking turns in 30 odd seconds after being back on the board.

Getting organised into learning groups was a bit hard work, but once that was sorted the ski/snowboard school was great. As my son could snowboard to a limited extent he has put in the intermediate group and I just joined him but could have gone up a group. By the third day we were doing the easy reds.

I did a little video that I put on utube of the last few days of my sons progress.

https://youtu.be/dS5Bg2RG84I?si=sgsf8eaW5xfC_A9i

Heading back next year with luck. I though Passo Tonale was really good and recommend it for beginners.

My first trip skiing I had an insulated jacket and boiled as you work hard when learning. As time goes on I’ve moved to long sleeve base and thinner jacket. Layering is your friend, you’ll get it a bit wrong in the early days, but it’s never too bad. I have had to upgrade gloves mid-trip once before, but that was min-Jan and high.

Ok, when you say jacket, sort of a shell weight, or padded?  I have an old Animal snowboard jacket that is down filled.  Used it at the indoor place for lessons with just a long sleeve base layer and it was warm enough but I don’t know if that is representative of the actual slopes.

We are hiring sallopetes and have bought some branded ski socks.

I have a Picture Alpin for skiing these days, but before that an Oakley ski coat that was effectively a chunky waterproof, with the benefit of the ski skirt to keep the snow out. It’s fair to say I did some sliding on the snow when I was learning and not getting snow up your back is handy.

If it’s a snowboard jacket with padding you’ll be warm enough I’m sure, especially as it’s April you go isn’t it?

I’ve not been to the snow for years. There was a time in my life some 30 odd years ago that getting the snow was my only priority in life. For several years in a row, I’d work all year to raise money to spend the season in and around Chamonix. Prior to that and for a few years afterwards I’d go for a couple of weeks, twice a year. Then I got married and had kids. Not been since, sadly.

Wife and I keep getting invited by her family to join them on their yearly pilgrimage to the snow. But just the thought of spending a prolonged period (7days) with them is just too frightening to accept the invite.

Second and final pre hols lesson was on Thursday and it went well, IMO.  The instructor, this time, seemed to have a bit more structure to learning and going through drills and techniques, rather than the previous “crack on”.   Definitely useful, we now know how to put on boots and move around in skis so we should hit the ground running, or just hit the ground!

We’ve also got some cheap helmets in the sales so the kit is pretty much sorted now, albeit we might look a little ramshackle.

Again, very grateful for everyone’s contribution on here, and looking forward to it massively now.

*Dumb question incoming*.  So, what footwear is needed for the day, or maybe out for a mooch on an evening? I thought we’d need snow boots, but my son seems to be of the impression that streets and footpaths in the resort will be clear.  Surely there is just snow everywhere?

Blimey, I just need to get there now and calm down…..

I’ve spent many a week around resort mooching about in Converse…

Take walking boots / trainers or similar etc. I’ve got Goretex Salomons that I take. I wouldn’t buy anything specific for a one off.

Surely there is just snow everywhere?

Not this year unfortunately… 😬

There are probably web cams to tell you what conditions are like all over the resort including the pavements. I’ve been walking around the resort in sandals or walking boots this week.

Snow this week has been typical Spring snow. Fast groomed in the morning then soggy. Off piste it’s pretty safe again with a hard crust in the morning then soft and sticky. Junior hit some sticky snow and did a forward sumersault almost landing back on his skis. I have a video but he knows I post here. 🙂

In Flaine this week and I ended up just bringing my trainers (Nike Trail trainers), the paths are all cleared and there’s little snow to get in the way. I usually have walking boots, but they didn’t seem necessary this season. Currently having a slow start to the morning as it’s raining heavily, hoping it clears up shortly and we’ll head upwards and hope for frozen rain!

Surely there is just snow everywhere?

They keep the actual streets clear (great big shovel loaders go through town and they tip the snow in big piles near the road at either end). Pavements can be a bit of a lottery, especially out towards the Paradiso (I think walking across the snow at the bottom of the pistes is more pleasant). We normally take walking boots.

One more sleep!

(A very short one if you’re on the 06:15 flight from Manchester!)

@tillydog that’s me too!

Kids are doing a througher, I’m hoping to get some kip before having to set off at around 3am. Currently packing and getting very stressed with kit anxiety.

You’ll be fine.

I’ve just got to fit the ‘pile-o-stuff’ on the bedroom floor into a case and I’ll be done.

Well, my newbie experience at Passo Tonale is proving a challenge.  Day one today and I just couldn’t get it. Took many tumbles and had the indignity of walking down the “steeper” sections of a blue run. Daughter tweaked her knee annd have a massive confidence meltdown and was skidood off the hill so I’m hoping she’s ok for the rest of the week.  The only, and I mean only, consolation is that the rep said it has been the worst day this season for ice. So hoping it gets better or it could be a disaster. Day two of ski school tomorrow . Full of trepidation. It wasn’t supposed to be like this.

That sounds challenging, sorry to hear it has been a tricky start.

The main thing to remember is that it is your holiday. If ski school sucks, or is pushing you uncomfortably, you can chill things out (obviously speak to them and see if they can support you with that) but even if they can’t, ski what you feel comfortable on as a group or family so you have a fun day.

When we take the kids now, we say it is a ‘mountain holiday’. If we ski a load, then that’s cool, but if we enjoy the environment, relax, eat cheese…also all good. Some of my funnest days have been just lapping a super gentle run, trying to learn something slow and technical, or even when we go walking, sledging, the pool, or (my favourite) an early pub 😀

Ooh! Sorry to hear that.

The bottom slopes were rather unpleasant yesterday morning.

No indignity in walking, except in your own mind. I hope your daughter gets enough confidence back to carry on with the skiing – I know it can be difficult to have another try.

Here’s hoping today goes better!

Day two done. Twas light night and day. I was ready to throw the towel in after a disastrous attempt on a kiddie slope first thing then spoke to our instructor and we got back to basics, which clearly I needed notwithstanding what was learnt at Xscape.  Bizarrely, and with a complete lack of any sort of coolness, I interpreted the teaching and adopted a “I’m a kettle teapot short and stout” posture to get the hips and leaning in check and was able to (in my opinion) absolutely tear up the lower blue runs! 😂😂😂.  And the daughter was able to ski through the knee tweak. And there wasn’t a single cloud in the sky so that ticked off my bucket list.   It was a great day, absolutely buzzing with even getting down, even with a degree of carving.  It got a bit slushy after lunch which was a little difficult to ski, and I had one “ohh sh!t” moment but managed to recover ok.  Snow forecast for tomorrow.
Also took the cable car up to the glacier at 3,000m. They ski down from that, which appears insane.
A great day. Knackered. Even if I had to leave tomorrow, I’d be satisfied.

WHOOP!

in common with many others, I imagine, I’ve been monitoring this thread this afternoon.

Ahh this is great news. Once it clicks and you are having fun, it grows from there.

Enjoy the progress, it’s a long-running learning thing for all of us, so just settle in and enjoy!

That’s great news. Yes, very slushy from about 14:00 which is hard work to ski, moreso if you’re in a snowplough. Glad things are looking up.

Falling over is part and parcel of learning. The more one falls the more tired one feels.
Maybe have a long lunch after ski school and just practise what you’ve learned later for a short period.
Don’t beat yourself up, skiing is not easy and the changing conditions at this time of the season don’t help.

My first holiday was a disaster, but I persevered and went again the following year and the difference (better instructor, conditions, equipment, food and accommodation) was amazing. It is now my most favourite thing to do in the whole world.

Excellent news. I was just popping in to say that I hope you’d had a better day, and it seems you have 😎😎 What a difference a day makes.

Oh and we all have terrible days occasionally, I was ready to pack it in for good last month after a day boarding on rock hard pistes. It wasn’t fun at all.

Day three done ( for me and the daughter).  It’s snowing quite hard and the slopes feel icy to me so whatever I was doing that made me feel good yesterday, just wasn’t happening today.  Two hours of lessons then another three hours on the slopes is more than enough for an old boy like me so I’m taking the sensible option and calling at a do for the day.  I was getting cold too. Slopes are much busier too, I mean lots busier now we are in the Easter holidays. The ski tutor has said it’s going to be manic of Good Friday and if it is, I might call it a day.  That’ll be our last day and a shame to lose a day but I’d rather be safe than stupid.

BTW, 17yo son is loving it.  His class have been on reds today and he’s buzzing .

Glad to hear things have improved over the last few days. Before I went on my first snowboard trip I did indoor lessons and though I could do it all. Big shock when I got out on a proper slope but I muddled through and never looked back. In my opinion the indoor stuff is useful to learn a few basics but in hindsight does not prepare you for a real slope. Generally they feel different and are obviouslyuchnlonger and often wider.

Glad you and the family have stuck with it

Day four done, and a little early at that. We’ve had over a foot of snow today and the teacher said it would make the pistes slow and more difficult to turn in. He then proceeded to take us up to a red run which had (in my novice eyes) a really steep section.  Got down it with lots of turning but I have to confess the busyness of the slopes is a worrying addition to think about.  There are people coming at you from all angles and speeds.  We also booked an hour for the daughter and I after lunch with another tutor which probably wasn’t long enough and probably to wrong weather. She watched us, demonstrated yet another way of learning to lean and turn and after a run and half, told us time was up.  The only thing I got from it was I queried how tight the boots should be as my foot felt to be moving inside them, despite all the clips being as tight as possible.  Is not had any guidance on boot fit either at Xscape or at the rental so I went back today, when it was a bit quieter and ended up going for a half size down and they do feel snugger so that might translate to more movement transfer from foot to boot to ski. I’m looking for marginal gains here, as you can tell.  Son came past me a few times at speed and their tutor is taking them on a black run tomorrow, which I think will be the last proper day as all the signs are that Good Friday is going to be heaving.  We may just get through our respective lessons, then an hour of skiing, then hit the restaurant for a last lunch.  I’m going to struggle if it’s heaving.

Rental boots are never ideal unless you have either no feeling in your feet, or the most perfectly coincidental fit for the boot. I bought a pair after 3 trips and never looked back.

Busy pistes are a pain, however the onus is on the person uphill of you to find a safe path through, not that this always pans out. If you are moving predictably, i.e. consistent distance between turns and leaving space at the edge of the piste you should be ok.

Getting down any red with a steep section in your first year is a massive achievement, this isn’t something you can (usually, there are a few people who manage it) just ‘get’ immediately. It’s likely your son will run out of confidence/ability somewhere along the way, speaking from experience here! Hopefully it’ll be mild when he does.

Finally you’ve had a good week for learning, from crispy through to powdered pistes, it does make the process more difficult, but it’s good you got the variety, our second trip was a low resort in Austria that was essentially just compacted snow and icy, falling on it was horrible and painful and the resort sucked.

Good luck with tomorrow, keep it up!

Day five. Not a good day and I’m pretty livid about the instructor. IMO, he completely misread the group ability and today, he proceeded to direct us up two lifts, to an altitude of 2525m, in a blizzard.  We then had to come down a run “bleis” which dropped 437m in 3km.  It was horrendous. Steep and off camber and I couldn’t see a thing.  Had a big off and smacked my head so I was glad to have a helmet on.  Poor daughter was petrified and I thought she was going to have be taken off the hill again.  I can’t work out what his process is.  If it’s to get used to reds then why not stick to those that are a single lift up and come back down into town.  What he did seemed to introduce unnecessary jeopardy to a class than had been skiing for three days.
Maybe it’s my inability to crack this skiing that is frustrating me but today has really knocked me and I’m nervous even on blues now. Last day tomorrow.  Around half in the class have said they aren’t going to his lesson tomorrow as it is just not fun and counter productive.

I’m pretty sacked off really, this was supposed to be fun but it’s turned into a bit of a traumatic experience.

Is it worth raising this with Crystal?  I would hate for anyone else to end up like my daughter did today.  Awful to see her so scared and upset and literally nothing I could do to help.

Rant over.