Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

It will be tech doesn’t stand still for long!

I also remember a time on here where people were calling 160mm enduro bikes ‘ego chariots’
Times change

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

my range test a few weeks ago got me 31 miles and 3600 feet of climbing before the battery was empty and that was in lowish temps
last weekend I got the 30 miles and 3000 feet up with 2 bars left on the battery which was then used in turbo mode for the sprint home from the pub

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

Depends what you mean by ‘decent’, ‘long’and ‘lot of offroad climbing’

As I said earlier, was trying to spec a pedelec to visit friends, a regular journey of mine but usually un-doable by regular cycling (at least as often as I’d liked in the time-frame I had) – return trip of nearly 9000ft climb, much offroad, old farm-tracks, big ruts, rocks, bridleways, river fords, X20 coastal valleys (v-shaped), 35 miles, more if take in some offroad loops as is my wont. Believe me, if you had need/desire to make this journey regularly either in a short day or with overnight clobber, food/booze etc – you’d all take the car, I swear. No heroes welcome for a sweaty useless, incoherent mess arriving late at journey’s end, and then off again before long to get home. So why not take the car? Cars are less fun than no fun for me, compared to bikes, hence I’ve cycled/commuted for 35 years. Bikes are outdoors for one thing, and can offer a lot of off-road time for another. I think what I’m also saying is don’t always assume that person on a pedelec can’t or won’t pedal a regular bike. They may well do. And they may well be one less car on the road.

My ebike is a commuter – I tend to ride it in turbo mode. I get around 25 miles with 1500 ft of climbing. Obviously would be more in less powerful modes but less offroad.

Trout – thats about the minimum for a decent ride I would have thought. I was thinking about things like the glen tilt circuit – 37 miles ad 5000 ft of climbing IIRC

Malvern rider – you would need a really big battery for that – mine is 36 volt 9amp hour I think. I take it you can recharge halfway? That might mean you need a kit not a prebuilt bike.

I also remember a time on here where people were calling 160mm enduro bikes ‘ego chariots’
Times change

Do they, 160mm travel is cheating…. You see it all the time on Strava… I go down some long technical descent on my hardtail with 100mm and some cheat posts a time on Strava…. I’ve seen em… 160mm front and back… how is that fair?

/sarcasm off

Someone said something about mobility scooters and people walking. This struck a raw nerve with me.

At the peak of my fitness (30 yrs for me) I was unfortunate enough to be struck into a wheelchair for a number of years (aggressive inflammatory arthritis). With the intense pain/swelling/inflammation in feet/lower limbs I could not support my 12st. After some therapy and in-between flare-ups I could (fortunately) manage to walk for increased periods with walking aids, and after some years without. My independence was compromised to such a degree that it was a major event for me to walk around a small shop. Yet it was impossible for me to walk back home. So I’d park my (self-propelled) wheelchair outside the store and walk around the shop. I’m certain many people looked twice. I learned not to give a shit. This 5-10 metre walk was my small weekly triumph and part of self-directed training to one day get out of the wheelchair for good. Docs had to this had offered to fuse my joints and poison me with steroid and Sulfasalizine. I was determined to walk again. Which is what I made happen. People judge others all of the time, often with only half the info yet seemingly a full complement of bias/psychological projection?

I never ‘gave in’ to a mobility scooter, to such a degree that over a year quite seriously strained shoulders/neck by pushing my own wheelchair everywhere, pulling wheels backwards up big-hills, refusing help, etc. Ended up in bed for most of the week not able to move head or turn over without help. Bloody-mindedness knackered up my upper-body as well. A mobility scooter mayhave helped at that point.

When I finally got to the level where I. Ould periodically get out of the wheelchair to (say) walk into the public urinal I must have looked like a ‘fake-disabled’ person. The fact that I had for most of a house-bound week to crawl across the carpet on knees to my own toilet was was of course not immediately apparent to the people tutting at me public. I’m not saying everyone in a mobility scooter is trying it on, or that they are not. I’m saying that you really don’t know.

I care about this subject just enough to pop in and say i don’t really care what others ride.

It’s never been about the bike, it’s about the smiles. If an e-bike, or road bike, or cross bike or whatever bike makes you smile and brings joy then it’s a good thing. If your bike choice causes bona fide mountain bikers to have kittens then good. Tighten them for not minding their own business!

stevextc:
I’m currently shy of 50 and “little me” is 7 and racing under 12’s… and finishing top 10 so it doesn’t take a genius to work out if he’s winning XC races at 18 and I’m over 60 that “get fitter mate” is going to be realistic.

Same here. My lad is 13 with 5 British podiums. Next year he’ll start politely waiting for me, which my 20something ride buddies are already doing. If I could be 20something again, I would.

What you pay 5-6k for something that only does 3000 ft of climbing before it’s batteries dies. They must be for the Range Rover driving Surrey Hill’s set.

Think we all need to take a leaf out of Pennine’s book. 70 in the dales on an Orange 4 – respect!

Euro – Member

It’s never been about the bike, it’s about the smiles.

Well said

as for the idiots flying up footpaths, well you get them in all walks of life..

Obviously. My point was it allows idiots (not all e-mtbs riders by the way) more of an opportunity to be idiots and piss off those that we currently precariously share trails with. I can’t see how that can be a good thing.

I’d also argue that if it allows people to jump on a bike and be an idiot without needing to gain much fitness, then we’ll end up with a higher percentage of idiots on the trail. The needing to be fit kinda acts as a filter to get discourage those who haven’t fully committed to the sport. Like the stag do i saw the other week, those lads would have been pissing off everyone with a half mile radius if it wasn’t for the fact they were busy breathing out of their arses.

Edit* i should clarify, a stag do of non mtbers, riding a footpath on a busy Saturday in the Lake District.

I have no problem with ebikes other than the effect it has on other trail users and therefore me by association.

Frankly I don’t like them because it looks like cheating, stupid I know.

I was riding up a local hill last week blowing it out of my arse (this is normal for me) and one came past me about 4x faster than I was going, the rider was seated, leaning back and barely registering an effort.
It bugged me a bit, I’d never say anything to someone riding one and I know they will become ever more popular but they aren’t for me. I used to lift weights and I suppose I could have had a better body, more quickly and with less effort if I’d availed myself of a few special chemicals, just to assist me and get me where I wanted to be. I’m just a glutton for punishment.

Some of the arguments for ebikes here are very compelling but I don’t think riding ebikes is really the same as self powered cycling. I haven’t seen any comments that convince me e-bikes aren’t actually motorbikes with some clever marketing and a convenient legal definition..

I haven’t seen any comments that convince me e-bikes aren’t actually motorbikes with some clever marketing and a convenient legal definition..

People nowadays seem to use ‘ebike’ and ‘pedelec’ interchangeably. Its confusing. To make it worse, in the US an electric motorbike is often called an E-bike.

An Ebike

An Ebike

An Ebike

An Ebike

Frankly I don’t like them because it looks like cheating, stupid I know.

I was riding up a local hill last week blowing it out of my arse (this is normal for me) and one came past me about 4x faster than I was going,

Yeah I was out on my commuter bike going down Fort William downhill …and this bloke came hammering past on his DH bike going 4x faster. He weas hardly even registering the bumps 😀

Yup had that too yesterday at BPW, it bugged me less I figured he’d practiced more.

I was an early convert to ebikes due to a bit of a strength issue and wanting to go out and ride more often.

Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much about them at the moment.

I had a Felt with the latest Bosch system, nothing but trouble. Bike was brand new and just kept breaking down. The motor simply isn’t well built enough, the crank interface is the splined ISIS and we all know how good that was…..

Bike must have broke down at least 20 times , riding a 21kg bike without battery assist isn’t any fun.

Bike was back and forth for repair, bottom bracket bearings blitzed due to the design being useless to cope with its intended purpose at trail centres.

In the end, I had another warranty replacement bike, 50 miles later, same problem.

I like the idea, and would have one, but ebike at over £3k that basically is very poorly designed and doesn’t work.

Can’t comment on the other systems like Shimano steps or the Specialized system, but for the short term I feel the design simply isn’t beyond canal paths and light road use.

Got all my money back, but was really fed up with two bikes costing over £3k that were simply very poorly designed.

Well, in a months time I’m off to Greece for the summer and, while I’m there, I’ll be celebrating my 65th birthday (God willing….).
I’ll still be out riding in biggish mountains (2000+ metres) with my trusty old Alpitude and worrying my long-suffering wife to death, no doubt, as I’m frequently out of phone network coverage and nearly always alone.
And yes, big climbs in 30+ degrees can be a bit tough but, you know what? I absolutely love it, it makes me feel alive and yet, among all that isolation, very mortal…

I’ll just keep doing this as long as I’m able and when I can’t just, hopefully, accept it and do something else. I’d always feel that having power assistance would somehow be giving in.
This is just me, mind you – each to their own.

Bike must have broke down at least 20 times

That really is bad. Worse bad than mere bad luck.

riding a 21kg bike without battery assist isn’t any fun.

My ute (above) is approx 24kg dry and that’s before the shopping/work-kit/tent goes on it. No assist. I have lots of fun! And it winches up hills fine (now have DX-style flats) especially if you’ve charged your ‘motor’ with a pastie*. Which makes me reconsider, perhaps these modern-fangled e-mtbers are really just wet blankets 😉

*No ‘speed’ though. Except when coasting downhill 8)

My mum hadn’t cycled for years, although my dad was still riding regularly. She felt she couldn’t keep up and would hold him back. She got an e-bike and never looked back. They are doing lots of cycling now, runs of up to 40+ miles. My mum doesn’t actually use the assist as much as she expected, but it’s there when she needs it, and gives her the confidence that she can get up the hills.

That’s the ideal application for me, where an e-bike removes a barrier that would otherwise prevent someone from participating in cycling.

The problem I see is where e-bikes become ubiquitous, and are used simply because “it’s easier”. Removing “unnecessary” effort from life has happened in lots of other aspects of the modern world, and I think we’ll see this in cycling. Cycling is a human powered pastime for me, and my preference would be to cycle shorter distances, more slowly, as I age. However, I wonder if I’ll see 15mph minimum speed limits in a group ride in a few years, because e-bikes level everyone up. There’s also the possibility that the speed limit could rise as demand grows. I think the Dutch are planning for special lanes for higher powered e-bikes.

Mountain biking’s f@c£ed, it just doesn’t realise it yet.

Give it a few years and it’ll just be a self imposed ghetto; fat, middle aged men on overpriced, over-engineered machines riding round in circles following little signposts.

Uh, hang on…

Interesting thread.
Instead of pontificating on what other people ride, why they ride or what their motivation or otherwise may be, I’m just going to carry on biking.
My actual influence only extends to what I actually do or say, so I’ll make sure my interactions with other bikers and other user groups are as positive as possible, even you folk on ordinary pedal bikes…

The rest of you can beat each other to death with your handbags behind the Nationwide, in Swindon.

Reminds me too much of people who go ‘fishing’ with all the gadgets they can muster – wireless alarms to tell them they have a bite, cameras and fishfinders attached to their floats and even little radio controlled barges to take their bait out for them. About as far removed from what I class as going fishing as you can get.

Sadly I see the potential for mountain biking to go the same. Strava, gopros, wireless shifting, electronic suspension, electric motors, where will it end up?

All I know is that no-one wants to go fishing with those guys except other weirdos. Thankfully I mostly fish and bike alone.

Km79 stalking in the margins with a bit of floating crust, proper old school is the best by far fishing wise.

This thread is a sham too much talking and not enough hating.

I think pedelecs are a great idea for fitness training.

You can keep to a specific heart-rate zone, regardless of the topography.

You could do that ‘recovery’ workout even if you’re surrounded by hills.

I also like the idea of the ‘walking-speed’ mode. Kind of like riding a pukka Yamaha ty trials bike and using your skillz to get up real techy sections.

Anything that gets people out their cars has to be a very very good thing.

With current lifestyles, people are better off going from car to pedelec than car to mobility scooter.

With current lifestyles, people are better off going from car to pedelec than car to mobility scooter.

^ This statement confuses me. A pedelec requires input, ie some actual effort (variable depending) whereas a car (for sole-occupant local trips/visiting/shopping etc of under say 15 miles) is basically a mobility scooter for people without disabilities, no matter how much ‘sexier’ the user imagines it to be 😉

@malvern rider

I figure that it’s better that joe public bite the bullet and leave the car behind and opt for a more energetic mode of transport before type2 diabetes/ general decrepitude set in.

A lot of the people using cars now will be suffering ill health in the not too distant future whilst still having to work as the pension age is raised.

I believe ebikes are a great thing as long as they help to replace car and motorbike traffic.
I will probably get one as I get older.

I just don’t get the point of a road e-bike… maybe a fat one makes more sense

I figure that it’s better that joe public bite the bullet and leave the car behind and opt for a more energetic mode of transport before type2 diabetes/ general decrepitude set in.

Agreed. The thing I feel most often missed in these ebike/pedelec (still don’t see people differentiating, what’s that about? rants discussions is their potential to replace car use (in cargo/utility mode) for all local journeys involving one or two adults or an adult and a few toddlers/nippers. There is no need to use assist unless loaded with goods or struggling/makng time up massive hills. But having that ability if required could mean the difference between an able-bodied healthy person hopping in the mobility scooter car or hopping on a cleaner, leaner and healthier option which also reduces traffic congestion.

Offroad potential is ‘just another option’ at best or an access-rights/weaponised anti-ped sled minefield at worst. This rather depends on people behaving unlike dangerous nobbers/keeping within regs. Humans are so often disappointing.

Tested 3 of the latest E bikes yesterday, it was a rite laugh. Downhills are pretty much the same, the flats and slight ups become downhills and steep techy ups become flat. Just have to watch how steep and techy you try to climb or you can end up looping over backwards. Not for me but it was fun for a change, can see them as a hire option at trail centres.

I think under the right circumstances they’re great. However getting dropped on the climb from ladybower to derwent edge by a young couple really annoyed me at first. However when I realised they were new to the sport I understand it more from their viewpoint. Personally at the age of 34 they’re not for me but if it gets new people into the sport then that can only be a good thing.

@ Chris, why did it annoy you that you had been “dropped?” its not a race, surely with different levels of riders, the only person you are riding against trying to beat is yourself ?

@lester Because the climb is gruelling and he was flying up the hill on his ebike. More demoralising than annoying I guess.

gives you something more to aim at? 🙂 i did ladybower 2 years ago and i was Knackered lol, dont think ive ever overtaken anyone on the way up lol, everyone i ride with can drop me if they want.
look at it another way, the only people that dropped you were on e bikes ! id settle for that !

if it gets new people into the sport then that can only be a good thing.

I’d be suprised if many people start of on a ebike and then move onto regular cycling. I’d have thought the normal progression was the other way round.

@malvernrider

I don’t think pedelec applies only to cargo bikes.

It takes a pretty big carrot to get joe public out of their cars, and anything that eases that transition has to be welcomed.

Pedelec also means that joe public can ride to work in their ‘normal’ clothes.

hit the lip of a gap jump yesterday and wrecked my helmet. I’d’ve made it on an eBike.

@malvernrider

I don’t think pedelec applies only to cargo bikes.

Agree, me neither. I just mean that utility/cargo use hardly ever seems mentioned. Cars are so ubiquitous that the emerging options of pedelecs/ebikes as everyday transport and load-lugging are barely considered, lost in the chest-beating ‘real’ cycling vs ‘fake’ cycling’ debate. I wager that the many anti-e-bike voices see no benefits of ditching the car for a pedelec, even when they drive their ‘real’ bikes around in a car to get to the ‘real’ trails 😉