Ebike at Bike Park Wales for the under-14s

For those commenting “I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.”.

I ask why? Does riding an ebike suddenly make everything super-easy – only if you put it in super-power mode all the time. You can put in just as much work effort on an ebike as a manual bike; you just go faster up the hills, can travel further (between the constant rain showers) and see more countryide. What’s wrong with that?

We’re prepared to ride up the hills – how many people get the uplift? Who are the lazy ones?

In my son’s case he’s 5’9″ at 12 yrs old. He’s on a adult medium frame 29″ full-sus. That’s not a light weight bike by any means – manual or electric. That’s a lot of effort especially on a multi-day trip (as mentioned above). Kids get tired.

Before making indignant assuptions no one asked whether the ebike was a full-fat motor or a light-weight motor. It’s a light weight one for the record, so only limited assistance.

Why not tow him, I was asked? And:

“You kid got an eMTB because when you got yours you couldn’t bare to slow down a bit so he could keep up on a conventional bike?”

I did mention I had a knee replacement only a few months ago. If you’ve not had one yet – be warned it’s an 18-month recovery time. That’s one of the main reasons I’m on an ebike in the first place.

Thumbs Up x 10 to Mr Hoppy’s post.

I did mention I had a knee replacement only a few months ago. If you’ve not had one yet – be warned it’s an 18-month recovery time. That’s one of the main reasons I’m on an ebike in the first place.

Yes you did. But you didn’t mention that your son had a knee op too…..it’s why you are on an ebike but not why you can’t ride slowly on it (even better  for your knee) so he can keep up on a manual (with his working knees). You didn’t get your lad an ebike because of your knee – you got him one because he wanted one (or you wanted him to want one) – which is fine. But not the reason you stated.

Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?

They’re considered as bikes, then separately classifying them becomes open to different interpretation so I don’t think it’s helpful to have them separate.

They’re speed limited and there is an argument that kids travelling closer to the traffic speed and not having to pedal as hard may be better as they can focus on control rather than motion.

Why would you not take an e-bike on an uplift, if that’s the bike you own?

So you’re with your, non e-bike, mates?

Did a lap of Llandegla at the weekend, and apart from me and and 5 others (after a while, I kept a score), everyone else was on e-bikes, including a dad and his son, who I reckoned was maybe 10-12 or so. They looked like they were having fun, so who am I to judge? But I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks. Must have been passed by 20-25 or so, including a couple of lads at the start of the jump line, having a sneaky fag!

I ask why? Does riding an ebike suddenly make everything super-easy – only if you put it in super-power mode all the time. You can put in just as much work effort on an ebike as a manual bike; you just go faster up the hills, can travel further (between the constant rain showers) and see more countryide. What’s wrong with that?

I can only see a couple of snarky comments, I think most people (including me) are fine with the use of e-bikes. It’s great that he’s out riding.

The point remains though that as per your original question of can you take him to BPW and then trying to find workarounds in the Highway Code / Road Traffic Act etc is:
No you can’t (legally) take him to BPW on his e-bike and
The RTA, rules of the road, Public Rights of Way Act etc are irrelevant.

It’s their (privately owned) park, it’s their insurance and their rules and regulations.

But I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks.

It’s also one of the easiest-to-access trail centres, within an hour’s drive of Manchester, Liverpool and half of North Wales so it gets way busier than many of the other trail centres. I’ve been 3 or 4 times in the last year – maybe 60-70 mins drive each way but a full day of riding, no gates, walkers, horses or dogs to worry about, decent cafe, jetwash, enough riding there to keep most people occupied and content for a day.

What’s not to like? Couldn’t care less what bike people use – maybe they’re rich show-offs or maybe they’re recovering from illness or injury or have some kind of medical condition or maybe they did a full week of commuting / training on a normal bike and now just want to spin around on an e-bike? Whichever it is, most of them are friendly enough. 🙂

I did a lap of Llandegla at the weekend, and apart from me and and 5 others (after a while, I kept a score), everyone else was on e-bikes,

I was there too, on Saturday with my 34 yo son, both on non e-bikes. We saw a lot  more ‘Flintstone bikes’ than that, but they were definitely outnumbered by e-bikes. Not an issue, everyone was having fun. And perhaps the e-bikes got 2 or 3 laps in to our 1, if so – fair play to them

I was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks.

When you’re riding a bike you notice ebikes, particularly on climbs they’re moving faster so you get passed by them more frequently, you’re moving at a more comparable pace to normal bikes so you see fewer of them.

But in what way is it less challenging? Technically it’s not that demanding but there is plenty of climbing and a good chunk of it is relatively dull. It’s prime e-bike territory, winch up the climb quickly and get onto the descents which whilst easy are fun enough.

For those commenting “I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.”.

I ask why?

For me, I’ve always found bikes to be kinda magical. Using nothing other than your own power, they multiply your natural limits many times over, and allow you to travel further under your own steam than would otherwise be possible. Bikes are also often the first real freedom that we get – and being able to places untethered from electricity, and the feeling of accomplishment for having gotten there entirely by yourself is a huge part of that. Even now, I find it enchanting that I can get on a bike and go basically *anywhere*.

It seems a shame to deprive someone of that voyage of discovery.

This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people

I’ll join in with the segregating and gatekeeping with saying that if a day riding downhill does not exhaust you, you are doing it wrong.

RE ebikes on the uplift, its totally plausible that someone has only an ebike, or if someone has one of each, it would make sense that the ebike is the longer travel of the two.

One lap of BPW is 250m drop. 10 laps is easily doable without rushing and with a lunch break. Not many e-riders can get 2500m climb out of a battery.

When you’re riding a bike you notice ebikes, particularly on climbs they’re moving faster so you get passed by them more frequently, you’re moving at a more comparable pace to normal bikes so you see fewer of them.

First time i saw an ebike in the wild was going up Cafall at CwmCarn on the big climb, seen them catching me and was thinking i must be going really slow, maybe i was ill or something and wasn’t noticing it, thankfully when they went past i saw and heard the motors and was relieved, also, nothing cheers you up more going up a steep hill than an ebiker sailing past and saying ‘you’re doing great; ;o)

For me, I’ve always found bikes to be kinda magical. Using nothing other than your own power, they multiply your natural limits many times over, and allow you to travel further under your own steam than would otherwise be possible. Bikes are also often the first real freedom that we get – and being able to places untethered from electricity, and the feeling of accomplishment for having gotten there entirely by yourself is a huge part of that. Even now, I find it enchanting that I can get on a bike and go basically *anywhere*.

These are kids who enjoy the downhill riding, they’re doing more dangerous and skilled stuff than i did when i was their age, which was basically on a rigid bike struggling to do anything close to technical on it, the whole mountain bike mantra has changed, back in the late 90s when i was doing enduros that meant endurance, now it’s pootling from point A to point B and then flying down a techy trail as fast as possible, then repeating it a couple more times. If this stuff was about when i was that age i’d have lapped it up, especially on bikes with more than 80mm of elastomer suspension

It’s not even about “Enduro” style riding, although it is a valid thing and applies to some but the eeb has allowed Hoppy Jr to get out to more of those interesting and inspiring places on his bike. It means he is interested and excited to do it, if we had to wait until he was strong enough to do that then it’s entirely possible he’d have lost interest in biking before then.

As I said; who am I to judge? It has zero effect on my days enjoyment, it was just comment that I was just genuinely surprised by the numbers of folks on e-bikes. Riding in places like Peaks and Calderdale, I really don’t see as many. I guess it’s partly that everyone is going the same way around the same trail. Still, didn’t think it’d swung quite that far in favour of e-bikes.

bike parks are for lazy people !

What a load of BS – the usual STW highbrow snobbery that comes out in all the posts

250m climb is what? 25-35 minutes? 45 at a push, maybe.

250m climb is what? 25-35 minutes? 45 at a push, maybe.

But who goes to BPW to do just one run?  Times that by 5, 6, 7 or whatever (8-10 in the uplift) and it takes its toll.  Probably to the point where it would affect your concentration and safety on the DHs.  It certainly would me. I can eat my hill climbing greens for free, any day of the week a lot closer to home.  If I’ve paid and travelled some distance to go to a gravity based bike park, I want to spend my valuable time there doing what I went for. Not repeatedly blowing out of my arse chugging up the same boring trail.

the usual STW highbrow snobbery that comes out in all the posts

Have another read, some not all.

was genuinely surprised at the level of e-bike use on really what must be one of the least challenging parks

Not quite sure why you are surprised TBH. It doesn’t surprise me in the least that loads of people who don’t want to exert themselves too much  physically might also be the same people that don’t want to …..exert themselves too much physically

My son (13) uses my wife’s ebike hardtail, no matter what the weather is now we go out almost every weekend. Before he would not be so keen when it was wet and windy. He still likes riding his whyte 13o but the e-bike lets him do what I do on the good bits and keeps doing them a few times each trip thanks to the portable uplift. In no way has the e-bike held back his riding skill development.

I posted this before, I went to 417 and did not use the uplift. I will never do that again as I was finished before the battery. Unfit but not really lazy. And also my e-bike rides like (to me) a DH bike compared to my Pivot, so I won’t have a problem using it with an uplift.

On the flip side – I could do with an ebike to keep up with my 13yo!

At our club we have strict no ebike rule for students, regardless of age.

Also with the uplift it’s bad enough hauling a 17kg DH bike on and off the trailer – wouldn’t fancy it with a 20kg+ ebike!

“Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?”

They’re considered as bikes, then separately classifying them becomes open to different interpretation so I don’t think it’s helpful to have them separate.

They’re speed limited and there is an argument that kids travelling closer to the traffic speed and not having to pedal as hard may be better as they can focus on control rather than motion.

mrhoppy are you seriously suggesting thst it would be a good idea to give an 8 year old an e-bike and let he or she loose on the road?

I understand that e-bikes are concerned about the image of their machines and the possibility of them no longer being classified as bicycles, but there should be an age limit on using them on the road, and it’s probably wise to put an age limit on their use in a bike park.

That said, I completely agree with your opinion that a well behaved under 14 on an e-bike in the supervision of a responsible  adult is unlikely to cause an issue to anyone, but rules aren’t made for sensible people.

For an ebike to be considered the same as a bike (EAPC) in the UK, the rider needs to be 14. If you’re younger, it’s just another electric powered toy, and when and where you can use it is nowhere near as clear cut… in your own garden or on your mate’s farm away from public access are the only options that aren’t questionable.

mrhoppy are you seriously suggesting thst it would be a good idea to give an 8 year old an e-bike and let he or she loose on the road?

As much as it would be for them to be let loose on the road on anything else. I’d not want them to be on their own but I’d not want that on an unpowered bike. Small kids can end up weaving as they have to push hard on pedals to generate power, that goes if they have pedal assistance. They get less tired so are less prone to losing focus. From what we’ve found the pedalling is less erratic on the eeb, I’ll of this is good if you’re riding in a road.

Small kids would be better suited to SL bikes, easier to move about, package smaller motors and need less batteries (see the Levo jr), absolutely think they’re acceptable.

Fair enough. I’ll be honest, I know more about 8 year olds than I do e-bikes!

Just to add to Mr Hoppy, ebikes made specfically for smaller kids often have fixed (or parent controlled) lower maximum speed limits on them, such as the Levo SL Kids.

And, as My Hoppy said, definitely agree one would want a light-weight (SL-type) motor, rather than a full-fat one. Motors like the Fazua (on my Pivot Shuttle SL) and the Bosch SX (on my son’s Canyon) don’t add that much more weight over a non-assisted bike.

This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people

I assume the idiot who made this comment expects the likes of Sam Hill etc to ride up Mont St Anne before their runs? BPW is one of the most fun places in the UK to ride a bike…

I’ve discussed this before on here and will throw in a bit on the importance of Ebikes in my boys context.

Him and Katy do rides and coaching in winter on Eebs fairly often each year, the reason is, they get 4-5 times the runs in a short space of time compared to manuals. It’s not always about fitness, it’s not always about pedalling, it’s sometimes about content content content.  Not  in a media context, but amount of runs, practicing techniques, practicing form, skills, terrain. If you’re putting the rider in the red climb after climb, there’s only so much they can do in terms of descent, learning and precision. Hence they use the Eeb to get to certain places, tracks and locations like say Barrys Sidings to maximise runs.

At places like BPW they give the abilty to get more run in for adults and kids than pedalling up and is only 1/3 of the price of an uplift. If you’re doing a weekend uplift and taking your kid it’s £100 for just the uplifting, versus £35 for the Eeb uplift. You also find even kids will get fatigued on the uplift bus/descents so they’ll only end up doing 4-5 which is about the same as they’ll do on the Eeb anyway (but for £65 less).

There’s also the adventure factor, being on the eeb and doing the climb feels more of an adventure than just sitting on the bus, you’re experiencing a bit more ‘big mountain’ feeling.

I can even see why you’d Eeb it and uplift af the same time, trails like Terrys Belly are pretty demanding as they last a hell of a long time and have both the hanging on and the pedalling for ages at the end too… So again, keeping the fatigue factor down is important.

Far too mant on here see certain aspects of riding in only THEIR context, i must ride, must pedal, must do XYZ miles, XYZ pain, effort… but honestly that doesn’t mean you’re right.. it only means you’re right, for you.