Sold a roadbike frame/forks and stem recently, the buyer asked me include a pair of bars – which he paid an extra tenner for – and he asked me to fit them as he didn’t have the correct tools (it needed a long-reach Allen key).

He then rings me up saying that the frame is rougher than he expected, has signs of rust, and that when he tried to adjust the bars, the bolt is “worn”.

Pointed out that it’s a 20 year old steel frame, that it’s condition was described in detail and photographed well. And that the stem bolt was in good working condition when I sent it. It sounds like he’s tried to use the wrong tools and stripped it!

So he raises an ebay dispute saying it was not as described. The following day, I got a card from Royal Mail saying that they’ve tried to deliver the frame back to me while I was out.

So the frame is at the depot, he paid by cheque (which I cashed) and I’ve got no plans to go and collect the frame as the depot is 10 miles away, and I’ve already refused to refund him!

Anyone got any experience of this sort of thing that might be able to advise what might happen?

ebay will tend to come down on side of buyer but other than suspending your account I can’t see they’ll be able to do much.

Buyer may chose to go down small claims, depends how much they paid, tbh.

Ebay will usually side with the buyer – but since it’s not a paypal dispute the water is a bit muddier in terms of how they could get money back.

depends how much you value your feedback score.

He posted the frame back after raising a dispute and not awaiting the outcome. He paid £125 + £10 shipping and £10 for the bars. Royal Mail will return the frame to him after 18 days if I don’t collect it, I’ve told him this, but he’s not responed…

I’ve pointed out that the frame is still his – he’s paid for it and I’m not prepared to refund after he’s done some work on it and possibly buggered it up!

Buyers going to win that one with ebay, but as above it will tricky for them to get their money back. Will royal mail redeliver at another date?

Just being nosey, but can you post a link to the ad?

Even after he’s done some work on it and bolloxed it up??

Here’s the link

Buyer will win this whatever you do- Ebay almost never sides with the seller.

Whether they can get the money back is debatable but i think we can all assume you will fight this to the nth degree
Why not just relist and deduct an amount or the damaged stem to save all the hassle

This why I hardly ever sell on ebay these days. People treat it like a try before you buy service, in the full knowledge that if they have a change of heart, they can send the goods back, or just not bother paying for them at all.

In your case, why not try a 2nd chance offer if the next bid down wasn’t too much lower. Yes it’s a pain in the mammaries but if you want to keep using the same account, probably easiest in the long run.

It’s weighted towards the buyer but not as much as some people believe, the seller can still win. (I’ve had 3 disputes as a seller and the only one I lost was because I screwed up the dispute process and missed a deadline)

But you need to be absolutely squeaky clean and correct, and you need your buyer to be indesputably wrong. Which it sounds like he partly is and partly isn’t since the bolt thing will be hard to prove. So don’t believe the naysayers but do believe that you’re in an unfair game.

Mainly because it cost me 15 quid to ship it, and I’ve now missed the optimum time of year to sell a road bike!

I’ve contacted him again asking if he wants to come to some sort of arrangement – as it stands, the frame is going to be returned to him again and I have his money…

as it stands, the frame is going to be returned to him

you’re assuming he put a return address on the box…

sounds like he’s panicked (for whatever reason). photos show rust in couple of places, and ‘roughness’ of frame is never going to be conveyed in a picture. You’ve said “good for age” or similar.

Doesn’t seem to have that much eBay history, either, so possibly realised they’ve paid a bit more than they meant to?

Good point wwaswas… If he didn’t what will happen to it?

Kcal, I’ve pointed out that it was sold as seen, and that you can’t expect a 20 year old frame to be perfect. He does sound like a bit of a numpty…

I had this recently with some MD players.

I went out of my way as seller to keep them happy, The goods were possibly damaged in transit but we will never know. I paid for shipping offered a full refund and kept ebay informed.

My mistake seemed to be emailing directly rather than loading up ebay and using their online system as the buyer ignored all my correspondance via this.

The goods were returned damaged with items missing and ebay decided in favour of the buyer but discarded the buyers feedback.

Gumtree and private cash sales from now on.

aye, sorry, I wasn’t trying to pick holes with you; quite the reverse, you’ve been up front and neutral about the bike.

bid in haste, second thoughts at leisure !!

I’ve had a couple of less than perfect transactions with eBay; the first one went nuclear within about 15 minutes, raised a dispute because I hadn’t responded about 5 minutes after they’d queried the item. a mobile with a scratched base plate.. I think I refunded some proportion and filed it under lessons learnt. other item was also an item of my daughter’s, “in poor condition” looked OK to me .. but left negative feedback on a pair of hair straighteners ‘won’ for £1.05..

lesson learnt is never to sell anything of your daughter’s 🙂

I’ve sent all correspondence twice – once via the email despite keeping the tone firm but fair, and also via text, where the tone is just firm. 😉

I agree kcal, and he’s properly panicked thinking that sending it back will automatically make me return his money. Instead, he’s created a whole heap of problems – mainly for himself I hope…

I might offer to refund part of the money, minus something to cover time, petrol etc…

as above from bitter experience the buyer ALWAYS wins.

we sold a pram to a total idiot few years back, they didnt want it and we said no returns. she wanted her money back and was getting all hot and bothered, i stood my ground as the pram was in fine working order.

anyway i opened an online ebay complaint form, cut a long story short ebay could see all the emails and in the end ebay gave the cash back to buyer and then came hunting for me to pay them.

i complained and the girl at ebay actually said “the buyer always wins”

if your not getting anywhere contact ebay

He’s already raised a dispute, but he sent the frame back without awaiting the outcome!

Using phrases like “so it’s all in very good condition” and “good condition for its age” is asking for trouble as they mean different things to different people. Tricky situation for you and the buyer now. I wouldn’t say you missed the window for selling, it’s make a good winter training hack for someone with a posh main bike. I’d refeund, re-list, and move on.

You’ve used the words “Stunning” “Lovely” and “Beautiful”

I’d expect something that looks like it just came out of the shop from your description.

While the reality is that he’s probably just discovered his gear set isn’t compatable with your frame, I feel there’s enough ambiguity that you are destined to lose this one and you’re best off refunding and relisting

A bit late now if you’ve been back in touch with him but you could have simply said you’ll refund him when you get it back – then don’t collect it from the PO

He’s now ignored a few text messages and a couple of responses sent via the resolution centre on ebay so I’ve sent another stating that I’m trying to speak to him to find a resolution. At least it looks like I’m trying to be fair to Ebay…

I don’t understand why he’s burying his head in the sand, I have his money!

I don’t sell on ebay anymore because of an issue much like this when I sold a 2nd hand road bike. The condition was listed accurately and as used, and the bloke went ballistic about some imaginary “washing brush scratches” in the lacquer. Even if they were there to the extent he claimed it is more than covered in the ebay description of a used item. It was a blatent ploy to try and get some money off after the fact.
It worked as I offered him a partial refund of £50 (£500 selling price), to get it over and done with.
To this day I wish I had offered a return for full refund. I bet he wouldn’t have gone for it, and if he had I would have had it back and taken the risk on making less on a re-sale out of principle. Little scrote.

I’ve got a load of stuff sitting around that needs flogging but I’m not fannying about with ebay anymore. Not cycling stuff or it would be on the classifieds here.

ebay is absolutely rubbish if you are a seller

they have refused to help me more than once when selling things when the buyer is at fault

I might offer to refund part of the money, minus something to cover time, petrol etc…

You’re almost admitting that it might not have been as described, which he’d pass on to EBay.

Why did he try to adjust the stem bolt/bars if he wasn’t keeping it due to rust. Sounds like he’d started to build it up and screwed the bolt up.

Refund his money, go and pick your frame up from the PO; check it all over, fix it/relist it whatever is needed and move on! Small claims if you have proof that he damaged it; not a game of cat and mouse with the delivery service.
I’m sure ebay will favour the buyer on this one so you are just asking for a headache.

Forget all the BS inbetween it just ain’t worth the bother.

I’ve already lost 15 quid posting it, would ebay make me refund his costs posting it back??

I supose I’ve still got the extra tenner he gave me for the bars outside of the ebay deal – I could always hang on to that and tell him he can collect the bars whenever he wants…

Yep. A pain in the rear but that’s the way it goes sometimes.
You won’t have to refund his return postage.

Personally I wouldn’t mess around with the bars/payment stuff..
IMPORTANT! Go and get your bike and make sure it is all ok first!!(you might have to accept the bolt is damaged but it might be OK you won’t know till you’ve checked it over first.)
Then email him via ebay to say you’ve got your bike back and you will refund his money. Try and keep it friendly and it will get sorted much quicker.
Make sure you refund via sensible methods so it is all written down and can be traced
Then you both should be able to close the case so you get your ebay fees back.
He still might leave neg feedback. :0(

It might sell for £150 next time around 😉

Am I missing something?
Unlike PP they can’t get the money back so what can be done by the buyer?