I might be driving a long journey next weekend but my MOT has shown that one of my tyres outer edge (front wheel drive) is 2.7mm. The other front is 3.1mm.
They both need replacing but I was wondering how foolish it would be to drive a few hours on the M6 next weekend?
Thanks
You've got a week to get them replaced, why is this even a question?
Replace them.
A new tyre has 8mm of tread, the legal minimum is 1.6mm. So you've taken approx 5mm off since you bought the tyres and have 1 - 1.5mm in hand so so speak in terms of legality. Driving on them next week will be exactly like driving on them last week
Unless theres something pretty wrong with the car cuasing increased wear that 5mm of wear would have taken 10-20,000 miles. How far are you planning to drive at the weekend. 1mm of wear would be a somewhere between 2000 and 4000 miles on front tyres
If it's an edge thats worn whats the tread like on the rest of the tyre - whats causing that edge wear - are the tyres inflated properly? - is there a problem with the tracking? Solve that maybe
My view.
Why wait? They will need replacing anyway so just get it done asap.
Safety first.
We have had some huge downpours.
A summer downpour , speed , and water lying on the road not a good combination and aquaplaning is not nice!
At 30mph on a wet road, a car with brand new tyres will come to a stop in 25.9 metres. The same car travelling in the same conditions with tyres with a tread depth of just 3mm would come to a stop in 35 metres. That’s 35% further, despite the tyres still being perfectly legal. When the tyres reach the minimum of 1.6mm of tread, the stopping distance increases to 43 metres. That’s almost double the stopping distance of the new tyres!
Surpirised that some are saying change , at what point would they change?
The probability of aqua plaining will be much higher , and if I did lots of motorway driving I would change but if it’s a one off drive sensible and leave gaps
the legal minimum is 1.6mm.
Oh, I didn't realise it was that little! Yeah, I've moderated my view, (sorry) towards the just be sensible and change them soon.
Outer edge 2.7- what's the rest of it like? it has to be 1.6 over the central 3/4 of the tyre so sounds fine to me.
Why wait? They will need replacing anyway so just get it done asap.
Next weekend is still June, so because some people get paid at the end of the month and tyres can be a quite pricey? No idea if that's the OP's reasoning but one possibility. Weird size that takes ages to get hold of could be another
Anyway, they are no worse now than they were last week. Get them done as soon as you can but no major stress for another week or so, if it was damaged it would have been a fail.
If there was an accident, say in the rain and involved your stopping distance, and if your tyres were checked as a result, and if your insurance company decided to be tough, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a decision (at best) because you had been advised to change your tyres.
Or maybe the legal limit is black and white. I dunno.
Really depends how long the trip is. For "a few hours on the M6" (in summer) you are chucking very legal tyres in landfill. What is the remaining tread depth in the mid section as that is doing the work under wet braking?
Out of interest, if the MOT hadn't flagged them as an advisory, what would you have done? Did you check them before putting into MOT? Would you have checked them before the journey?
if your insurance company decided to be tough, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a decision (at best).
Really how does that work when the car and tyres are meeting all legal road requirements?
If you drive into the back of someone it’s your fault regardless. Thats less likely to happen on brand new tyres than it is on ones with 3mm of tread , but there are loads of variables. There are massive differences in stopping distances between brands of tyre. The type of car you drive influences stopping distance. The driver influences stopping distance
So are you saying insurance companies will on pay out if yoiu drive a high performance light weight sports car on brand new tyres ? Really ?
At what depth does tread become an advisory? Or is it because they are different depths l and r?
I did edit it, because really I am no expert.
Or maybe the legal limit is black and white. I dunno.
If there was involvement in a serious rta, I'm saying I don't know how seriously if at all an advisory tyre change would be taken. So I wouldn't risk it for that biscuit.
At what depth does tread become an advisory? Or is it because they are different depths l and r?
Tester's discretion I thought. Under 1.6mm is a fail, somewhere near that the tester 'advises' that they may need changed soon but are not yet illegal. Differences L/R or F/R don't matter (although I ran a winter and a summer, which was the spare, on the front for a couple of weeks and was very disconcerting under braking!)
Quite a few 'ifs' really...but technically your legal, hence it was an advisory not a failure.
Perhaps it's just an incentive to drive sensibly, stick to speed limits (or maybe even slower) leave suitable gaps, don't tailgate or hurl the car into corners at speed, or brake late for things, you know all the things I'm sure you do by default anyway.
And then get some new tyres on payday?
I’d replace them at the end of summer.
2.7mm? On the outside edge, that’s loads.
Unless you want to send a perfectly good tyre for recycling? That’s pretty wasteful.
No that won’t affect insurance. It’s a legal tyre by a long way.
Old tyres, sure change them. Partly worn tyres no. Unless they feel a bit ropey in the wet.
I'd replace them.
One tiny clip of another car will wipe out any savings
One massive downpour and getting unlucky and things could be much worse
https://michelinmedia.com/the-truth-about-worn-tires/
This is worth a read.
Whilst the vested-interest tyre replacement shops love to tell you to change the tyres long before the legal 1.6mm limit, guess what - they have a vested interest in that. Because they sell more tyres.
400 MILLION tyres are scrapped (and most go into landfill - or just tossed to the side of the road) each year unnecessarily.
Now, it does in part depend on how good / bad / ugly/ totally shite the tyres are in the 1st place. But... assuming you've got good tyres and not cheapo plasticy Chinese garbage, maybe it's unnecessary to change before the legal limit.
if your insurance company decided to be tough, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a decision (at best).
Really how does that work when the car and tyres are meeting all legal road requirements?
To me a MOT advisory is 'just to let you know, your tyres are quite low and will need doing soon' and no more, no less.
I personally don't overdo tyres, I spend extra for the best I can afford (Crossclimates at £100 a corner fwiw) and even then will be looking to change around 3mm. Even £100 a corner is cheap compared to the day you can't stop and as I slide into the baby robin's face I probably wouldn't be thinking 'at least I got a tenner's worth extra wear out of the tyres'
But YMMV (literally) and 2.7mm in summer and on probably dry roads isn't certain death by any means.
<hr />
That's wasteful.
If the tyres have 1.6mm on them, they are legal, and that's that.
(In fact if you did got to court, even below 1.6mm, it can sometimes be shown to have no material effect on the outcome of an incident- e.g. if dry, or the road covered in solid frozen ice (see case when 4 club cyclists were killed when hit by a car that crossed the road. 3 Bald tyres... shown in court to jot have mattered as the road was covered in ice, so tread makes no difference in that circumstance.
Now, if they are shit plasticy nasty Chinese tyres, I'd probably have changed them to something decent long ago irrespective of the tread remaining.
Given the state of some of tyres I see on cars here in Italy I really wouldn't worry.
Some of them are like slicks they're so worn.
For summer I wouldn't bother. If the road is dry more rubber means more mechanical grip, that's why race cars run slick tyres in the dry.
Basically you've now got a race car, well in one corner at least 😁
But I'd look at getting it changed before Autumn and the rain. Although if you're getting all season tyres, they may be cheaper now as there's generally less demand for them in the summer. So that saving may offset the cost of replacing them earlier.
my MOT has shown that one of my tyres outer edge (front wheel drive) is 2.7mm. The other front is 3.1mm.
And as been pointed out, the legal minimum across the tread is 1.6mm. It was part of my job to check tread depth on tyres of any car I was picking up and driving, anywhere around 1.6mm was perfectly acceptable even if I was driving it several hundred miles.
What wasn’t acceptable was an MOT that ran out within a couple of days - there had to be a minimum of about a month IIRC, on a just in case of a breakdown or other unavoidable hold up.
My car had two advisables on its recent MoT, one was a repairable nail in the tread on one front tyre, the other was an unrepairable nail in a rear tyre. The rear tyres were the original OEM Goodyears that were on the rear when I bought the car, the fronts are the Michelin CC2’s I had fitted a couple of years ago, so I had the fronts put on the rear and the puncture fixed, and a pair of Continental AllSeason Contact 2’s put on the front. Now I’m doing half the miles I’ve been doing for the last few years, I’ve got tyres each end that’ll last me for quite a bit of time now, through the worst of whatever winter we’re likely to get.
Cost me £326 for the pair, plus fitting and the puncture fixed, but the CC2’s were more expensive, I think, and the Conti’s are the latest version, so all’s golden.
there was an accident, say in the rain and involved your stopping distance, and if your tyres were checked as a result, and if your insurance company decided to be tough, you could find yourself on the wrong side of a decision (at best) because you had been advised to change your tyres.
Or maybe the legal limit is black and white. I dunno.
I love the shit people make up about not being insured! The MOT guy is basically warning you not to wait till next years MOT before getting them replaced (or looking at them properly again!). If they were properly dodgy today it would have been a fail.
edges of tyres (outside 12.5% each side) don't have a legal limit for tread anyway (no idea where the MOT station measured yours) - the limit only applies across the centre 75% of the tyre.
I'd be driving it.
Isn't this a drop off at Kwik fit scenario.
Why wait?
Because they're bloody expensive.
An advisory is just that. 3mm of tread left in June, changing them is crackers. In November, perhaps.
Cougar
Full Member
Why wait?
Because they’re bloody expensive.
An advisory is just that. 3mm of tread left in June, changing them is crackers. In November, perhaps.
Would seem great value though if you had a crash where stopping sooner would have prevented it!
Also I'm sorry to open a can of worms but the new tyres should ideally go on the back axle, with the rear tyres moved to the front... Especially if the rear ones are old
I’ve had the car since 2018 but only average 2000 miles annually.
Based on that I would not even think about changing them until 12 months time.
More grip in the dry with 2mm of tread than 8mm of tread
The tread blocks don't squirm and distort as much.
Leave it till October then buy some cross climate tyres.
MOT testing station looking for something to write down to show due diligence.
...one of my tyres outer edge (front wheel drive) is 2.7mm. The other front is 3.1mm.
Depends how outer edge it is, but the outer 1/8 of a car's tyre tread width can legally be bald (as can the inner 1/8). Advisories are at the testers discretion, but a tracking fault can cause a problem quite quickly, so sort the tracking if needed.
Michelin have some tyres that are designed to work well at 1.6mm, which says something about the quality of a tyre
That minibus that takes you from airport parking to the terminal? 1mm tread, legally. As are the lorries and buses surrounding you as you use the roads.
Some new tyres come with 5.5mm of tread, so you could still be only half way through the legal life of the tyre and they are practically new especially as the measurements will be at the most worn part of the tyre.
Or the car has been driven with incorrect tyre pressures or alignment out so odd wear has happened and they may need looking at. As mot doesn't check for alignment unless it's visably out, but then you'll likely have other broblems anyway.
Adviory is to nudge you that someone wants looking at but isn't a safety issue atm, well before you need. A lot people won't get a car looked at other than when it needs an mot and may be get it serviced at the same time.
Adviory doesn't mean it Must be rectified before the next mot, you could have an Adviory that isn't an mot fail that doesn't get repaid for consecutive mots.
2.7mm is still plenty and the advisory is telling you it will need to be replaced in the future. As you only do 2k miles per annum I’d be cancelling the appointment and rebook for a years time at the earliest.
I personally don’t overdo tyres, I spend extra for the best I can afford (Crossclimates at £100 a corner fwiw) and even then will be looking to change around 3mm.
I tried to find data on this and couldn’t . Crossclimates are an all round compromise tyre, so ‘possibly’ could be worse at braking in the summer than a good summer tyre
I would happen to guess that the people who did the MOT advisory just happen to sell tyres too
I tried to find data on this and couldn’t . Crossclimates are an all round compromise tyre, so ‘possibly’ could be worse at braking in the summer than a good summer tyre
And that "worse" will still be better than the best summer tire on cold damp winter day..... Or snow or ice or standing water
Better any time the road surface is below 7c.....
But your right they are worse under warm wet weather braking (but not nearly as bad as full winters) I'll continue using them though. They are the right tire for our climate.
If your on the stock tires of an average euro box they are probably eco models (for emissions fudging) or an oem version of a real branded tire in which case the all season will be at it on every front.
To the op. I'd take the trip no worries. I'd look to change my tires in October for all seasons* of some flavour.
*Unpopular opinion Should be called UK standard tires
Your tyres at the time of the MOT are legal - the advisory is a prod to keep an eye on them because there is a chance they will become illegal in the foreseeable future. You are fine to drive . Whatever your MOT says it is your responsibility to ensure the car is roadworthy; do a few doughnuts in the Tesco car park and the tyres will become illegal.
I tried to find data on this and couldn’t . Crossclimates are an all round compromise tyre, so ‘possibly’ could be worse at braking in the summer than a good summer tyre
Possibly.... I'd say definitely are. In a perfect world you'd have different tyres for all seasons and if I had the money and space so would I. Heck, maybe even some summers with a few mm of tread for dry, and then some summer wets as well. How far do you take it.
I know that kind of goes against what I said earlier about not squeezing an extra tenner's worth out of each corner and changing at about 3mm but that's the reality. The compromise of an all seasons in the warm/dry is way less than the benefit in the cold and wet, and that's a trade I'm willing to make.
do a few doughnuts in the Tesco car park and the tyres will become illegal.
I do doughnuts in the supermarket car park, but only because if I take them home then I don't get to eat all four and have to share them with the kids.
I'd drive them.
I suspect the advisory is one of two/three things.
- They'll need replacing before next MOT.
- The tyres are significantly different Left/Right, your tracking might be out.
- The tyres are significantly different across the tread, tracking might be out.
I'd be very surprised if the condition of the tyres will make any material difference to anything for one "long drive" this weekend. Unless you're doing a dash to southern coast of Greece, 5 up, and then back again for work on Monday.
Tbh front wheel outer edge wear is mostly from nailing it around roundabouts a little too aggressively. I'd only be looking at tracking if the middles were still relatively unworn
Just the fact that the OP is asking the question kinda implies that they normally have no idea how much tread are on their tyres and can I guess that the OP usually relies on a garage etc to tell them they need replacing?
Anyway, now you know, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed - how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
Of course there is then tyre pressures. A lot of garages appear incable of setting pressures correctly for the car, so you could end up on brand new tyres which are massively over inflated and therefore not working properly
Does long distance or short distance make a difference?
As it's summer and it's just the outer edge, I wouldn't change them as long as the center tread is 3mm. Just drive appropriately if its wet and check them again after your long drive. Most tyres I have wear down to 2mm on the side and the middle is still at 3-4mm (plenty safe enough).
If worn unevenly you might want to get tracking looked at. Or perhaps you live in Milton Keynes.
I think you'll be fine, unless it gets wet, and then you'd have to be extremely unlucky to have a problem, especially with the wear just on the outside.
Having said that I take no chances with tyres and just changed 4 that had less than 10000 miles and were under 3 years old as they were starting to get a weird cracking in the treads. Garage said they don't make em like they used to. First time I ever drove on a motorway I had a rear tyre blowout at 70 and since then I've never skimped, they're the only thing between you and the road.
Most tyres I have wear down to 2mm on the side and the middle is still at 3-4mm (plenty safe enough).
Can I suggest that you invest in an accurate pressure gauge? If both edges, that's a sign of under inflation
Most tyres I have wear down to 2mm on the side and the middle is still at 3-4mm (plenty safe enough).
Can I suggest that you invest in an accurate pressure gauge? If both edges, that’s a sign of under inflation
I check my tyres every 2-3 weeks with a good pressure gauge. Some cars tend to wear the tyre edges if you corner hard, whatever you do. It's had a full geometry check too.
Good god there are some doom and gloom fannies on this site.
I'm always impressed with the mileage STW can eek out of a worn tyre WWSTWD? Thread
There are people out there driving on brand new tyres that come bottom in every test. Their tyres are the worst money can buy. Their comparative performance is woeful.
They are 100% legal and will sail through an MOT
Does long distance or short distance make a difference?
Southern Greece and back might, it's near enough a 5000 mile round trip...
Just to put it into perspective, i'd be permitted to go out onto the track here in a test car with tyres more worn than that and lap repeatedly at 250+kph. I'd soon find out if the tracking was ok.
Is it too soon to ask What tyres for the Peloponnese?
2.7mm is fine, and fairly normal for cars to wear the outer edges of the front tyres, especially if they do mostly twisty, non-motorway miles.
Having said that, at some point tyres get old and hard. IIRC the MOT limit is 10 years (but that might only apply to minibuses/buses) but I've had 8 year old tyres feel sketchy as **** so had them replaced.
So depends on what your plans are with the car. If you plan to keep it a while but not indefinitely (i.e. another 8+ years at 2000miles a year) then just get them replaced now, you'll have to at some point anyway, and you'll get more of the benefit.
Anyway, now you know, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
How far do you take that argument?
Why would you ever drive in the rain, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel
Why would you not replace all your brake pads with EBC Greenstuffs and imagine having that accident and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel
Would you not replace all your tyres at 6mm, 1mm above the European winter standard to give you a margin for safety, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
Why would you not drive an M1A1 main battle tank*, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
Why would you ever all get in the same car, you should all drive individually to minimize the risk of leaving your kids orphaned, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
Why would you ever drive (this is actually the least rhetorical)?
*Or a Toyota Landcruiser.
When my fronts are down to around 3mm or just below I can feel them squirming going through puddles at 50-60mph. Which is why I never run them down to 1.6mm.
I agree with the sugestion above - wait until October then change to all seasons. Though unless the current tyres are all seasons you would need to buy 4.
"You should not mix all season and summer tyres. If you are changing your tyres to all season, you should put all season tyres on all four wheels. Equally, you should not mix all season tyres with winter tyres or summer tyres with winter tyres. Always fit the same type of tyre on all four wheels."
https://www.goodyear.eu/en_gb/consumer/why-goodyear/winter-driving-all-season-uk.html
...and then there is the other key factor in all this that no one has mentioned so far is the skill/experience and reaction time of the driver, and whether they like to pick their nose, use their mobile phone whilst driving. Will probably have more of an impact on stopping distances than the tyre tread depth.
I've just changed a pair - Cross Climates again obviously. 😉 They were down to under 3mm on the edges so they went. Experience tells me that below 3mm a Summer storm can result in aquaplaning even with the fast draining surfaces used these days on motorways.
My Winters (Michelin Alpin) get changed at 4-5mm or when they start to develop fine cracks, Winter tyres seem to age faster than Cross Climates or Summer tyres.
Though unless the current tyres are all seasons you would need to buy 4.
I don't disagree with the principle of your point, but I ended up with Continental Winter tyres on the front and Firestone summer tyres (i.e. not ditchfinders, but hardly premium) on the rear of my Berlingo.
Now considering the Berlingo rear suspension is about as advanced as a medieval catapult (torsion bar on a beam axle) but less refined. It still understeered round cold wet roundabouts like nothing else I've ever driven and emergency stops required as much wishful thinking as brake pedal pressure.
So the difference between Summer and Winter tyres, let alone halfway options isn't enough to overcome that imbalance (maybe best not to try it the other way round with the 'good' tyres on the rear and amplify the issue though).
Crack on, you'll be reet.
Surely the correct answer is it's time for new bike?
Advisory means that you need to keep an eye on them, as it's thought that if you wait till next time you have an MOT you might well be driving around on illegal and dangerous tyres.
"But what if you crash?" Well, if you're that worried about crashing then why even drive? Are you really stopping your car millimeters away from a dangerous accident? Perhaps look at the way you drive. Your insurance is for a legal car, of course you're insured if you get "advisory" from the MOT garage (but the advise is to keep an eye on them - you won't be insured if you've worn them to be illegal).
I got an advisory on tyres one year, didn't change them for the whole year and got another advisory the following year. The reason being I don't push the tyres hard and do limited mileage through the year.
Yes, tyres are an important safety aspect of the car and I won't go waiting till the very limit of their life, but they're also expensive and from almost the moment you start using them they'll be degrading. Just be sensible and drive your journey. Drive many journeys, but check your tyres regularly and start saving for a new set.
but I’ve had 8 year old tyres feel sketchy as **** so had them replaced.
This is interesting, I've found that old tyres get really noisy rather than noticing any performance degradation (I'm not one for 'making progress') but yeah, they can be knackered plenty before the tread is worn out.
Would seem great value though if you had a crash where stopping sooner would have prevented it!
...
There are people out there driving on brand new tyres that come bottom in every test. Their tyres are the worst money can buy. Their comparative performance is woeful.
They are 100% legal and will sail through an MOT
This. I'd rather have good tyres with 'advisory' than brand new surface-to-hedge missiles. I've had tyres listed as advisory on a service which were still listed as advisory on the following one.
The legal limit is one where beyond which it would be deemed to be unsafe to use. Ipso facto, 1.61mm should be fine. I would be surprised if there wasn't a degree of safety margin built into that limit to start with.
I stand by my earlier statement. Changing tyres in the middle of summer with almost double the minimum tread still left on them at their most worn edges is madness. What do they measure in the centre of the tread pattern?
Based on that I would not even think about changing them until 12 months time.
I was thinking the opposite... the new tyres are possibly going to be the last tyres going on such a low milage car... so might as well buy soon and buy quality.
...surface-to-hedge missiles...
I like that, I've always referred to them as Bandvulk Ditchfinders, but I'm having yours for future.
Madame Edukator was driving the M1, cautiously with plenty of distance to the car in front, below limit, in a deluge. The car in front then started rotating, she slowed gently and drove around it using the hard shoulder. That's the difference between just legal tyres and 3mm+
If the tyres have 1.6mm on them, they are legal, and that’s that.
There is a difference between legal and safe in all conditions as well outlined by a number of posts above.
Why take the risk? As an answer to the original question, I would be comfortable driving on the tyres for the journey suggested but would be looking to change them quite soon.
I have had MOT advisories on tyres
Nearside Front Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge 3mm (5.2.3 (e))
I changed them at about 2.5mm before the autumn that same year. In Germany the recommendation is to change at 3mm
The car in front then started rotating, she slowed gently and drove around it using the hard shoulder. That’s the difference between just legal tyres and 3mm+
Amazing skills to do that at the same time as assessing the tread depth on the other car from a distance in a deluge.
sounds to me like there is plenty left and changing them would be wasteful, both financially and environmentally.
We dont all drive rep mobile Audi and Beemers on the ragged edge of grip everywhere we go.
Anyway, now you know, and imagine having that accident in the rain and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
how do you sleep at night thinking of these hypothetical nonsense's ?
FWIW, i've had cars aquaplane with new (under 100 km) tyres on. Maybe i need new tyres?
(It was planned, i had to drive into increasingly deep "puddles" at a variety of speeds.)
It also happens fairly often on my commute, Sweden doesn't use the fast draining tarmac, as it isn't very durable against the weather we get here, so you occasionally get standing water.
how do you sleep at night thinking of these hypothetical nonsense’s ?
Presumably they don't, what if the house caught fire and you weren't awake to stop it and someone (you love) getting injured/killed – how would you feel knowing that your non-action may have caused it?
Got to love a STW car tyre thread. Almost as good as a speeding thread.
I like that, I’ve always referred to them as Bandvulk Ditchfinders, but I’m having yours for future.
I literally just made it up, I was going to write 'ditchfinders' until I saw someone else already had.
Cougar
The legal limit is one where beyond which it would be deemed to be unsafe to use. Ipso facto, 1.61mm should be fine. I would be surprised if there wasn’t a degree of safety margin built into that limit to start with.
I stand by my earlier statement. Changing tyres in the middle of summer with almost double the minimum tread still left on them at their most worn edges is madness. What do they measure in the centre of the tread pattern?
Yes, legal, but why would you want to get near the legal minimum? TBH driving is probably the most dangerous thing my family do, so I want the best tyres 24/7.
Unfortunately that's not practical, so what is the best point to change from a cost/benefit perspective?
I looked into it and my recollection* is that especially in the wet, braking/aquaplaning performance degrades slowly down to 3mm or so, then drops quite rapidly.
Therefore my conclusion is that the sensible point to change the tyre is around that point. You've had ~80% of their maximum wear, but they still perform okay.
*please don't make me hunt for the graph..!
