Home Forums Chat Forum Does Nick Griffin have a point? Yes, that Nick Griffin…

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  • Does Nick Griffin have a point? Yes, that Nick Griffin…
  • IHN
    Full Member

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20000954

    Ignoring the anti-Christian-bashing stuff, is it not a reasonable point that anyone has the right to say who they do and do not want to allow into their homes?

    Pigface
    Free Member

    There is no point to Nick Griffin he is in fact pointless.

    neninja
    Free Member

    I think the problem is that it’s wasn’t just their home but their business too.

    The bit I find confusing is that the owner didn’t allow unmarried heterosexual couples to use the double room either, so how is it deemed to be discrimination if she treats both parties the same?

    wrecker
    Free Member

    It was a business and not a home. Everyone can choose who they let into their home, but they cannot base who they do business with based on bigotry. IMHO.

    deus
    Full Member

    there is a certain small amount of logic there, however posting their address up and inviting a lynch mob round seems to be a very poor way of presenting any form of rational argument.

    I’d be suprised if she’s let only married couples stay in the double room though.

    davidtaylforth
    Free Member

    BNP leader Nick Griffin has said people have the “right to discriminate”,

    Clearly not. The guys a ****

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    a big fat NO – a B&B is business and whilst it may be inside some ones house it doesnt give the owner the right to discriminate baised on religious or personal views.

    jon1973
    Free Member

    is it not a reasonable point that anyone has the right to say who they do and do not want to allow into their homes?

    Except it’s a B&B, not just their home is it? They’re running a business. Would you be saying the same thing if she’d turned away a black couple?

    IHN
    Full Member

    however posting their address up and inviting a lynch mob round seems to be a very poor way of presenting any form of rational argument.

    Agreed, I’m not saying the guys not an odious little turd.

    Nick Griffin has said people have the “right to discriminate”

    If you use an alternative word for ‘discriminate’, say, ‘choose’, is he still wrong?

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Call it what you like, Nick Griffin is wrong.

    IHN
    Full Member

    Except it’s a B&B, not just their home is it? They’re running a business. Would you be saying the same thing if she’d turned away a black couple?

    Equally, it’s their home, not just a B&B. I’m not saying I agree with what they did, I don’t; Homophobia and racism are Bad Things.

    I am however wondering whether they should be prosecuted for doing it.

    mikeconnor
    Free Member

    Would nick Griffin be happy if medical staff refused him vital emergency medical treatment on the grounds that they were descriminating against him because he’s a ****?

    wrecker
    Free Member

    He is wrong. He’s suggesting that we can’t choose who we can and can’t let into our homes. We can, and for whatever stupid reason we want.

    Equally, it’s their home, not just a B&B.

    That’s un****inglucky. they have opened their house as a business to the public.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    people have the “right to discriminate”

    Not exactly hard to see what Griffin’s angle might be in promoting that viewpoint.

    As Mr Black and Morgan pointed out on the radio last night, apart from the obvious equality issues, how exactly would it work if businesses were allowed to discriminate like this?

    Would you be happy listing everything about you that someone could possibly object to just so you can book a B&B room?

    Or should they just put up signs?

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I like Nick Griffin.

    If it wasn’t for him, someone competent might be in charge of the BNP, and then we’d be in real trouble.

    brakes
    Free Member

    A home or business owner has the right to refuse entry to anyone he chooses without reason, but can not discriminate with prejudice.

    IHN
    Full Member

    He’s suggesting that we can’t choose who we can and can’t let into our homes. We can, and for whatever stupid reason we want

    Well, the court case in question suggests that we can’t.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Would nick Griffin be happy if medical staff refused him vital emergency medical treatment on the grounds that they were descriminating against him because he’s a ****?

    See, now, I’d definitely do that if I were allowed… Please, let me, please…

    jon1973
    Free Member

    Equally, it’s their home, not just a B&B. I’m not saying I agree with what they did, I don’t; Homophobia and racism are Bad Things.

    I am however wondering whether they should be prosecuted for doing it.

    But they made the choice to run their home as a B&B. Equally you cannot opt out of fire or food hygiene regulations, just because you happen to run your business from your home. By running a business you implicitly agree to do things a certain way.

    fuzzhead
    Free Member

    it’s a business, they can’t discriminate.

    IHN
    Full Member

    A home or business owner has the right to refuse entry to anyone he chooses without reason, but can not discriminate with prejudice.

    But who discriminates about anything in a non-prejudicial way?

    Say, for instance, someone turns up to the B&B steaming drunk. The landlady refuses entry because her landlady friends have had trouble with (other) drunken guests before, and she wants none of it. No-one would think this unreasonable, but she’s still come to a judgement about somene she’s never met based on situations she’s never faced. That’s prejudice, no?

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    So when that pub bouncer doesn’t let you into the bar because he doesn’t like the look of you (i.e. not black/gay/female etc. etc. but for a random reason because, say, you are wearing trainers) is everyone saying they can’t actually do that?

    IHN
    Full Member

    But they made the choice to run their home as a B&B. Equally you cannot opt out of fire or food hygiene regulations, just because you happen to run your business from your home. By running a business you implicitly agree to do things a certain way.

    Fair point

    support an idiot like Griffin and don’t be surprised by the response you get. Bloody moron.

    Is that aimed at me? I suggest you read what I’ve said; I’m not supporting him, I’m asking a question.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    You have a choice about being drunk, you don’t have a choice about being gay.

    jon1973
    Free Member

    But being drunk isn’t the same as being black or gay is it. You refusing someone because of their behaviour in that case, not because of what they are.

    mikeconnor
    Free Member

    That’s prejudice, no?

    No, it’s making a judgment about safety I’d imagine. She’d have an obligation to ensure the safety of her other guests.

    So when that pub bouncer doesn’t let you into the bar because he doesn’t like the look of you (i.e. not black/gay/female etc. etc. but for a random reason because, say, you are wearing trainers) is everyone saying they can’t actually do that?

    very tricky ground this sort of thing. Bouncers refuse entry to groups of young lads for example, citing ‘safety’ reasons. Perfectly legal. They can make up all sorts of reasons to refuse entry, and not even have to give a reason. As agents for a private event/company/premises, they have the power to admit who they want. If they stated that a person could not come in because of their skin colour/gender/sexuality etc, that would be illegal. hence the infamous ‘sorry no trainers’ line.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    IHN – Member
    “He’s suggesting that we can’t choose who we can and can’t let into our homes. We can, and for whatever stupid reason we want”

    Well, the court case in question suggests that we can’t.

    It doesn’t matter that it is their home when they are running it as a business. Got it that time?

    edlong
    Free Member

    Nick Griffin is ace. We should all vote for him. Voting for the BNP reduces racist violence and extremism. No, really:

    Vote BNP for less racist violence and extremism[/url]

    brakes
    Free Member

    what I’m saying is, they could have just said “no, you’re not coming in, I don’t want your business” and left it at that. By giving a reason they showed what their prejudice was and there are certain things on the basis of which you can’t discriminate.
    Being drunk is not one of them.

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    You refusing someone because of their behaviour in that case, not because of what they are.

    Okay, change drunk to trainer wearing and perfectly sober. Can’t see any H&S issues in that.

    racefaceec90
    Full Member

    The only thing nick griffin has the right to do, is f..k off.

    cannot agree more.

    as was said above they were running a business.it’s discrimination pure and simple.

    djglover
    Free Member

    If I ran a small manufacturing business from home, and refused to let gay people buy stuff from me, would that be OK IHN?

    I can’t actually believe that this has been posted on here, are you living in the 70’s?

    IHN
    Full Member

    But being drunk isn’t the same as being black or gay is it. You refusing someone because of their behaviour in that case, not because of what they are.

    Well, you’re refusing someone on how you think their behaviour will be. He could very well just wobble up stairs to bed and appear at breakfast polite, apologetic and hungover.

    It doesn’t matter that it is their home when they are running it as a business. Got it that time?

    I have thanks, after jon1973 well put point.

    PMK2060
    Full Member

    Personally i thing guest houses should be allowed to choose who they allow to stay providing they advertise their prejudices and make people aware when they are booking.

    This would prevent people paying good money to guest houses and then being made to feel unwelcome.

    It would also mean that the bigotted idiots would lose a lot of business.

    mikeconnor
    Free Member

    Okay, change drunk to trainer wearing and perfectly sober. Can’t see any H&S issues in that.

    The venue would be perfectly ok to impose a dress code, as it’s a private event/company/premises.

    That the ‘dress code’ is instantly adaptable to suit the bouncers’ attitude towards any given individual is anothert matter entitrely.

    In my going out days, clubs that said ‘no trainers’ were generally crap anyway, and not worth trying to get in.

    IHN
    Full Member

    If I ran a small manufacturing business from home, and refused to let gay people buy stuff from me, would that be OK IHN?

    No, it would mean you were a bigoted, small finded, fool. I’m not sure if you should be prosecuted for it though.

    Gweilo
    Free Member

    brakes – Member
    what I’m saying is, they could have just said “no, you’re not coming in, I don’t want your business” and left it at that. By giving a reason they showed what their prejudice was and there are certain things on the basis of which you can’t discriminate.

    +1 brakes

    Their mistake was giving a reason, you can refuse service to anyone you like, for any reason or no reason whatsoever. As soon as you say it because you’re [whatever “group” they belong to] it becomes discriminatory

    Gweilo
    Free Member

    I better clarify the post above, before it gets misinterpreted. I am not saying discrimination is right. I believe bigotry and discrimination in all forms to be utterly wrong.

    IHN
    Full Member

    Their mistake was giving a reason, you can refuse service to anyone you like, for any reason or no reason whatsoever. As soon as you say it because you’re [whatever “group” they belong to] it becomes discriminatory

    Which is a bit ridiculous though isn’t it? At least there’s an honesty in saying “I don’t want your business because…”.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    it’s a business, they can’t discriminate.

    Actually – any business and anybody can discriminate…… Nobody has to accept the business of (or the friendship of, or even the company of) anyone or everyone. I big part of some peoples business process is deciding who they don’t want to sell their goods or services to. The B&B owners mistake was to say why she didn’t want to give the couple a room – she could have said ‘Sorry, we’re full up.’ and that could have been a big fat obvious lie, and that would be fine. Or she could have said – we don’t have any double rooms available (the existence of an empty room doesn’t make it available if you don’t want to offer it) – offered them a twin or two singles, got the result she wanted and some money in the til too if the couple didn’t decide to take their business elsewhere.

    Her problem isn’t that shes a christian, homophibia isn’t an exclusively christian (or typically christian) trait. She’s just a tactless idiot.

    EDIT – typed that too slow

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