Do StW posters not like Downhill ?

I was at Dyfi Bike Park this weekend and i would say the vast majority of riders were middle aged men.

Downhill seems to be popular as ever, probably just not with the people who come on here.

I watch them all on discovery and they are my favourite sporting events of the year. I have no issue paying for the privilege and think the set up they have is pretty decent. All the social media stuff pre and post race is a great addition to the event and enjoy all of it!

I love the DH, watched it on RB every year from about 2015 until they stopped. Have never managed to sort out a sub to Discovery to properly try them out (for many reasons) and just watched the highlights on Youtube instead for the last couple of years.

I liked Rob’s commentary, and thought the combination of him together with another recent/current racer to provide the more detailed insights was great.

Im a fan, got disco plus. Summer weekends I’m usually doing stuff, didnt get a chance to watch until sunday night.

(got the XC to watch tonight)

Will admit to watching the top 15 women (started with Myriam, or probably would have been top 10) and 20 men. The early competitors have shorter time gaps between riders, hence a fairly rubbish coverage (start gate, few turns and jumps, finish line) but the ones with any chance of winning you get enough coverage of the run to actually get an idea of how they are riding.

I’m not sure how the BBC coverage works, do they get the same video feed as the Discovery etc? I remember last year’s worlds BBC being atrocious. They had clearly earmarked certian riders as being ones to watch and decided pre-race to give them extra screen minutes to the detriment of the rider ahead or behind them… so we got some extensive views of Finn rolling down gently post crash and Greg nursing a flat tyre, and little view of whoever came after them who actually gave a competitive effort.

Two blokes arguing about something neither has the facts on – I’ve not seen that on here before…

I know right? Breaking new ground!

I’d still like you to have a guess at how many bikes though – pin your colours… 🙂

Okay fair enough. If we assume that 1/3 of that field (elite, expert, promising juniors and masters/vets with money to burn) has a new bike that’s 250. Then there are folk doing uplifts/Insta with no interest in racing, that’s the grey area.

I agree that sub 1000 is reasonable but I still think it’s a decent bit north of what you think, bearing in mind places have hire fleets plus breakages, theft etc. We could both be wrong but unless any of the resident industry types have the figures and spot this topic it’s all academic really.

Used to try and catch the races when I could (life allowing) on Red Bull TV but now it’s on Disco+ I don’t bother.  I’m not going to pay for yet another streaming service for the times I’m actually in the house and not busy on a summer weekend afternoon.

Love it  I watch a  lot of the Vlog stuff on YT from Bernard and the likes and love Cathro’s inputs. It’s the only sport I actively seek out to watch and think it’s pretty special. I will admit to watching the race on Saturday slightly behind and did FF through a lot of the more unremarkable backmarkers but I did want to get to the result.

Since it went to Discovery I haven’t watched anything live as  some kind of protest at the attempted monetisation of it and I can’t see that changing anytime soon.  If they start supporting the sport, the teams and the riders in particular I may change my mind but for now it feels like they’re just trying to milk everyone’s good will and enthusiasm. Most of these riders would race if they had to pay for it themselves and there was no publicity.  Let’s face it that is how everyone started.  Disco trying to make it a TV friendly cash cow without the investment in the sport or the participants seems, well wrong.

Do I talk about it much on here? not a lot but then I don’t talk about it much anywhere else.

The BBC coverage was great except for the slightly vague male presenter (who was he?) and them missing the one key bit of the race but I guess that was the feed rather than their editing. How were they to know that that at the exact moment they cut away to show the podium would be when Bruni binned it? Tracey was a great addition and spoke with actual experience of the sharp end of the sport rather than the pre-prepared script the guy seemed to have.

Would love to see more of it on the BBC. As someone above said, it would make a great Ski Sunday style magazine programme. Though we’d probably all hate it.

Another who loves it. Watched it regularly (not every race due to ‘life’ getting in the way) since Freecaster days. Haven’t watched anything live since the end of RB coverage, mostly because I don’t have the time to sit through that much TV. A nice 2-3hr broadcast on RB covering the majority of riders was a nice amount I thought.

I’ve attended the Ft William event almost every year. Found the most recent event this year not as good as previous – appeared to be geraed up for the TV viewer rather than the in person fan – so we’re unsure we’ll rush back every year, but it’s still a great experence for the mini-a11ys also.

But yeah, there’s definitely DH fans on STW – there’s 80 STWers in the ‘Keyboard Warriors’ DH fantasy league on PB.

I watched probably every single hour of live DH coverage Red Bull put out over the last three or four years prior to WB taking over (seriously – I’d do most of my turbo sessions with that on).

Loved it.

But I won’t pay for Discovery, not because it’s £whatever a month, but because I hate what they’ve done to the sport.

I’m a bit of a fan, made worse due to a competing family member and we will sometimes travel to watch races even if the offspring isn’t riding. This year we’ve been to Champery and this coming weekend we’ll be in Loudenvielle.

We had a Eurosport app subscription, which has now evolved into Max/Disco. Not just for the biking, but it certainly helped tip the scales when the service changed. We got rid of Prime to even out the cost; the adverts, content and our ever decreasing volume of shopping with Amazon didn’t make it worthwhile anymore.

Re actual dh bikes, I always used to keep one, but now I’ve got a long travel, big coil forked enduro bike which is more capable than my last dh bike was, so I just keep a tough (cheap) set of wheels with dh tyres on instead. Sure, a modern dh bike will be better again but it’s not the difference it was- it used to be not so long ago that even the biggest hitting of practical everyday bikes felt really out of its depth at fort william or glencoe, whereas now they’ll make you a little slower but that’s all. I mean ffs we have single crown forks at red bull rampage. So now big pedallable bikes just make more sense for almost everyone and with the right tyres on can do the job well enough to make little difference except at the pointiest end. It’s not a rejection of downhill though, it’s just progress. We’re riding the same, just way less people feel the need for a specialist bike to do it.

TBF there’s just not that many UK dh tracks where a full on dh bike is a clearly better choice and even then it’s mostly differences that matter at race pace. Most of the modern uplift venues have very wisely built for the bikes people have for the most part. Just once i took my dh bike on a tour of welsh uplift venues (because I lost a bolt out of my enduro bike on day 1!) and there were, ooh, entire minutes in that entire holiday where I wouldn’t rather have been on the other bike. That was the end of dh bikes for me. Not worth keeping one for 30 runs of fort william and glencoe a year (and the rare mad stuff elsewhere that really pays off for a dh bike, frankly I don’t want to do 😉 )

Funny that there isn’t much about cycling, and specifically downhill on the chat forum…

…perhaps there’s some on the cycling forum? Not actually cycling for some years I don’t pay much attention.

I find spectating sport, any kind of sport, really quite boring, and so I don’t watch it.

Also, the gods of our sport are so amazingly skilled and capable. At that level it bears little semblance and thus has very little connection with what I do in the woods every weekend.

It’s sold out to an American broadcaster like many sports I used to watch that went to SKY.

You see people justifying 50-100% sub increases and then a year later justifying it again! It looks as though these corporations have got the measure of people just right, no principles and will stump up no matter what. It’s no wonder prices of everything have gone through the roof, middlemen demand fees on top of every transaction and renting everything has been pushed as the only option. People are idiots as proven during the pandemic. Panic buying and paying over the odds for the latest BMW’s etc just in case they miss out on the latest model.

There has been a concerted effort to stifle any criticism of big corporations and create a sympathetic sycophantic environment on social media. Brainwashing people into thinking they are a brand or could be a brand in the future and how cool/lucrative it all is.

It’s sold out to an American broadcaster like many sports I used to watch that went to SKY.

You see people justifying 50-100% sub increases and then a year later justifying it again! It looks as though these corporations have got the measure of people just right, no principles and will stump up no matter what. It’s no wonder prices of everything have gone through the roof, middlemen demand fees on top of every transaction and renting everything has been pushed as the only option. People are idiots as proven during the pandemic. Panic buying and paying over the odds for the latest BMW’s etc just in case they miss out on the latest model.

There has been a concerted effort to stifle any criticism of big corporations and create a sympathetic sycophantic environment on social media. Brainwashing people into thinking they are a brand or could be a brand in the future and how cool/lucrative it all is.

No, would have done 🙂

I will sit and watch em on Discovery+ through Sky (dont think it costs me any extra!?) if im doing nowt. There has been some odd scheduling this season and much reduced hype meaning ive completely missed some races – like didnt even know they were happening!

I still find it incredibly exciting to watch, especially at the sharp end (how can you not be blown away by Pierron’s winning run at Les Gets!?) but Its definitely lost its edge without Warner, and the tracks are becoming more and more less interesting, but the racing is great, its just being let down by the coverage.

One thing is for sure tho, never miss Wyn TV from the pits afterwards – that is primo content!

Those absolute bastards at Discovery forced me to watch the DH, XCO, Vuelta and WEC last weekend 🙁 #sendthoughtsandprayers

Coming back to the OP, there’s never been a huge amount of DH on here, or in the mag for that matter. That’s not to say there isn’t some though, and one of the appeals of the STW forum is the breadth of stuff that gets discussed.

I’m picking up some serious FOMO vibes coming from Chestercopperpot ! [/S]

There has been a concerted effort to stifle any criticism of big corporations and create a sympathetic sycophantic environment on social media. Brainwashing people into thinking they are a brand or could be a brand in the future and how cool/lucrative it all is.

This probably relates more to soft drinks that hitch onto lifestyle sports, designating beanies and helmets to a select few more than global TV networks, but I’ve seen way more backlash than anything positive concerning our new broadcasting overlords. It’s lessened as the coverage has improved this year, but it’s still very present in many places.

Also, the gods of our sport are so amazingly skilled and capable. At that level it bears little semblance and thus has very little connection with what I do in the woods every weekend.

For me, that’s actually one of the things that makes it good to watch.

I daresay it could also look exciting to someone who doesn’t cycle or mtb, but because I can ride similar terrain (“similar” perhaps doing some heaving lifting!) I find I have a greater appreciation of exactly what it’s like and just how skilled and fast they actually are.

The dramatic jumps and stuff is amazing, but often I find myself marvelling at the speed they travel over more “boring” looking bits of track, knowing just how difficult it can be.

I’m picking up some serious FOMO vibes coming from Chestercopperpot

U wot mate. I’m watching Nunchuck BMX Polo and MX Jousting on the laser internet, who’s **** missing out now then?

I can sort ya an install and affiliate link if you send nudes of ur mom and sister, dig the old gurl up if need be 😉

mahalo
I still find it incredibly exciting to watch, especially at the sharp end (how can you not be blown away by Pierron’s winning run at Les Gets!?) but Its definitely lost its edge without Warner, and the tracks are becoming more and more less interesting, but the racing is great, its just being let down by the coverage.

One thing is for sure tho, never miss Wyn TV from the pits afterwards – that is primo content!

Agree with most of that, .though for balance I did watch the Hardline coverage with Warner commentating and thought he was a bit much but maybe he was over compensating a bit. Wyn’s stuff is superb – watched his post Worlds interviews last night and was really impressed with the interaction and depth of interest.  He’s obviously well loved throughout the sport and it really shows in how people respond to him.

Said it before but cycling (any discipline) just doesn’t seem to translate to TV. The closest maybe is BMX racing where you have multiple riders head to head, you can see the whole race in one go and its got some excitement involved.

Watching downhill on the TV is like F1 but imagine all the cars going around separately trying to set the fastest time and whoever does it is the winner. Dull as… And yet its the total opposite for participants where its awesome (like all cycling is).

That said, saw some (Red Bull?) freeride type stuff on TV recently. Think it was in Austria/Switzerland and the whole course was visible from various camera angles so you saw every pedal stroke and trick each rider pulled. That was ok and impressive to watch but even so, was pretty slow paced on a screen.

DH has the natural problem that there’s more than one rider on track for most of the day, so full runs even if you had infinite cameras and drones are impossible. And it’s a hard environment to film in so inevitably they want to do it with as few cameras as possible, catching as much as possible, which quite often leads to “we now see the riders on the boring bit with no trees”. And especially they always want to get as much of the start and final stretches as possible and I don’t think there’s a race track in the world where the best bits are right at teh start and finish.

But when the coverage and the track and teh conditions come together it can still be pretty bloody brilliant. And easy to read even if you’ve never ridden a bike, there’s a reason Danny Hart and others can go viral. TBH for most of the years I’ve watched dh, most of hte time, the coverage has been more than good enough to enjoy it and understand it but a lot of people seem to want the literally impossible.

DH is still my favourite sport but I can’t get discovery plus via Prime or on my.oldish smart TV so can’t watch it

However my routine is,  listen to the downtime podcast with Chris kilmurray for a race preview, watch the riders YT channels for track walks and race week content, particularly Kerr’s LSD to ‘ learn’ the track and then I’m reduced to watching the race highlights on the UCI yt channel

It’s sub optimal

You don’t have to suffer

https://tiz-cycling-live.io

Watching downhill on the TV is like F1 but imagine all the cars going around separately trying to set the fastest time and whoever does it is the winner. Dull as…

You don’t have to imagine. F1 tried single lap qualifying – it was rubbish

Watching downhill on the TV is like F1 but imagine all the cars going around separately trying to set the fastest time and whoever does it is the winner. Dull as..

Dull?

Your challenge to it being dull is 13 years old. It’s not the greatest rebuttal.

DH is decided by small margins and that means that it’s hard for an uninformed viewer to see what is “good”. TT type events do not make for great viewings as it’s hard to see who is winning, you can watch and be impressed by the skill but without investment in the rider it’s not “exciting”.

Let’s apply the above analysis to alpine skiing, where winning runs have often been decided by thousandths of a second…

I agree that the Danny Hart Champery run is probably no longer the most up to date rebuttal. The commentary is fun if you know Rob Warner, Pagey and their mildly drunken commentary box antics from Freecaster, or you’re 15 years old, but context is everything.

Fast forward to 2024. Watch half the field at Les Gets bin it in the Black Woods section and tell me that Pierron’s winning run is dull or unexciting.

Let’s apply the above analysis to alpine skiing, where winning runs have often been decided by thousandths of a second…

Ok, Alpine skiing doesn’t make for particularly engaging viewing either, it has the same problem of not being able to tell, but because there is generally a single line and it’s fairly smooth it’s easier to tell when someone is going poorly (not necessarily the same for well).

However alpine skiing has a participation base that is orders of magnitude higher than DH MTB, is an olympic discipline, has a dense season where there is a world cup event pretty much weekly during the peak season and is much easier to cover due to the lack of tree cover. And despite all that Ski Sunday competition coverage is a limited top runners highlights section inside a 30 minute “lifestyle” show for a couple of months in the year, there is live event coverage but it’s behind a paywall.

I’ll admit the TT format can wear a little stale. I will probably only watch the top 10 women and 20 men. Ideally, they come in increasing order of ability (which happens at a WC, but not world champs) to build the excitement.

Of course, when WB cut the finals field and introduced semis, both of which help the above, they are “killing the sport”.

Of course, when WB cut the finals field and introduced semis, both of which help the above, they are “killing the sport”.

The danger is that once you go to a ringfenced ‘top’ 30 then DH becomes a Pay to Play competition where riders bring their own sponsorship to the team in order to secure a place.  The fact that they are being sponsored by Daddy’s company is neither here nor there.

That or the ability to sell bikes becomes the most important attribute when it comes time to decide whether to sign (and thus allow) a rider to compete at WC level.

Might be alright if there was a clear path to WC level but at the moment there’s not.  For now the only way riders can prove they deserve to be at the WC is to actually perform at a WC (once they’ve got enough UCI points from assorted races, of course).

The danger is that once you go to a ringfenced ‘top’ 30 then DH becomes a Pay to Play competition where riders bring their own sponsorship to the team in order to secure a place

I worry about that too – long term an elite top 30 will retire/injure but without a feeder event, there will be nobody good enough to replace them.

However, currently, the world cups are open to anyone (with requisite points) who then get to compete in qualifying and semis, quite literally racing against the worlds best on WC tracks. Just not necessarily televised.

I’m not 100% happy with the exact current format of semis etc or the protected rider system, but it does currently mostly work.

I think the TT format can work really well if it’s managed properly. Red Bull did a better job of covering the key midsections of the course where line choices made a significant difference, so that you could appreciate why a particular rider was much quicker than the others. That didn’t come across so well in Andorra as Danny Hart was fastest through one of the mid sections but you didn’t get a sense of what he did that was different. Like others, I enjoy the Cathro course previews because they provide the course insight that the main coverage is missing.

It’s also the case that following the evolution of the course over the day (especially if the weather changes) can add enormously to appreciation of the skill involved and drama of the event (thinking of Pierron’s run at the Les Gets world cup earlier this year as a good example).

The real problem with the new coverage is theyre trying to make it (the coverage) a super slick, professional product that in turn attracts advertising money. That is all they care about. The racing is a distant second to that need to generate money.

Take the EWS or whatever they call it now. In the old days you had Ric and Chris Ball doing a course preview. No fancy graphics, no talking head giving a monologue to the camera, just them sticking a GoPro on and having a laugh down the stages. It felt much more relatable and watchable.

Now you got a super slick promo segment, with cool graphics and standardised intro music, Josh Carlson doing a little segment to camera, before a carefully curated segment of GoPro and drone shots to demo random bits of the stage. It’s all very high production value stuff that I’m sure advertisers will love, but is dull as dish water.

On the DH side, you’ve got an F1 style panel interview that’s scripted and staged. I’d rather watch hours of Wyn’s pre and post race stuff than any of the slickly produced crap.

I don’t even think they’ve misjudged the traditional core audience, I just think they don’t care about them anymore and they only want new viewers that they’re trying to entice with the new format

So it’s looking a teeny bit muddy this weekend

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I don’t even think they’ve misjudged the traditional core audience, I just think they don’t care about them anymore and they only want new viewers that they’re trying to entice with the new format

Exactly it’s being converted into yet another corporate product for the consumption of admin worker wallopers who trip over a jet ski in the garage, land on a paddleboard and all the other abandoned detritus from equipment sports they got bored of and/or realised they were/are shit at.

They don’t care about the core audience because we aren’t a new market and they’ve worked out that wether we sign up or not doesn’t make enough difference on their spreadsheet to be worried about.

MTB was already a middle class sport, so it’s too late for that level of gatekeeping against the corporates . People were calling it the new golf on here a decade ago.

Marshalling at the SDA today, numbers seemed solid (not sure if it’s sold out but it’s healthy), the overall quality of the field is definitely higher than it was 10 years ago, most people are back on dh bikes than a couple of years ago, looked to be more women and young riders and less of the infinite crowd of old dudes that used to make up the numbers.

Sort of ironic with enduro in the valley dying and the good old SDA which has been declared doomed and obsolete and replaced by enduro more times than I care to remember still going strong and delivering awesome racing.