Do I turn down promotion?

I’m a long time lurker but I need some other peoples independant perspective on this one. It’s a long story so grab a cuppa and a couple of milk choclate digestives.

My boss resigned and finished work last Friday with no replacement having been hired and no ‘handover’ done. His team had two main roles – project management (which I do) and technical support (which I have only a minor part in).
As it happens, I’m the most senior person on his team and the CEO has asked me to take over as team leader and, under other circumstances, I’d be happy to do so. However, the thorny issue of out of hours support to our IT infrastructure (both internal and external/SAAS) hasn’t been properly addressed.

The team has one network admin who has provided some ad-hoc out-of-hours support and is being co-erced by the CEO to fomally provide this cover with the promise of a (very) small salary increase but NO ‘on-call’ allowance and an un-disclosed (so far) payment if any incident requires more than one hour to resolve. (The network admin will have to document and justify the time before any money is paid).

Fortunately, we don’t actually have an official SLA which determines coverage time or response time but all the sales people promote “24/7 email support” – which is absolute bollocks and the CEO is running the company on a wing & a prayer

However, the CEO’s expectation is that the support phone voicemail and email in box needs to be checked, at minimum, once every two hours out of office hours (M-F, 7am to 5pm) – yes, so that’s checking overnight every night plus the full weekend on top of the ‘normal’ M-F working week (and this includes bank holidays).

My boss effectively performed this out of hours role previously though he just generally checked the emails before he went to bed and as he got up in the moring (on his personal BlackBerry!). He was very much a family man and very rarely went anywhere where he couldn’t get to a computer to remote-in if necessary.

A new junior network admin is being hired to help out the existing senior network admin and share (week on,week off) the out of hours coverage though I wasn’t involved in the hire process (it was done my our head of marketing!) so have no idea of their experience or suitablility (or even their expectations!)

So, to get to the point, there’s every likelihood that my evenings and weekends are gonna be severly constrained by the expectation that I’ll be able to support or cover either of the network admins and drop whatever I was doing periodically to deal with topics the network admin cannot handle. This is on top of doing my existing job as they will not be directly replacing my role though I may be able to off-load 20% of my workload onto other team members. I’ll obviously have my old bosses’ other responsibilities (not all of which are known yet!) amd I can expect an increase in the amount of travelling I’ll be doing.

The CEO is expecting me to accept this role today, though he hasn’t told me what compensation I can expect. Now, whilst not rich by any strech of the imagination, my currently salary and relatively frugal life-style (work to live rather than live to work) means I’m not desparate for a salary increase but I know the CEO will take the piss unless I negotiate hard.

In reality, I’m gonna end up doing the majority of my old bosses work for at least six months because even if they do decide to replace him, it will take that long to bring the new person up-to-speed

Thoughts?

You’ve already made up your mind… you just need the balls to tell him

“This is on top of doing my existing job as they will not be directly replacing my role”

and as duncan bannatyne says – “for that reason im out”

and three in a row to say “game of soldiers”

Checking emails every 2 hours!? Sod that. Is that even legal to expect that of one person? Utter madness.

This is one of those moments when you have to MTFU. But it helps to bear in mind your CEO’s motivation before you do.

He’s probably no mug – he knows he’s running the place on “a wing and a prayer”. There’s probably one or more underling reasons why: perhaps he’s failed to outsource the out-of-hours service at a price he can afford for some time or perhaps company profit margins aren’t what they should be…

Whatever, there are 2 options that you can work for you:
1) Accept, but with recompense that suits you – in writing. You say you don’t need a pay rise, particularly. So how about going to 4 days a week at the same salary (whilst continuing to cover the emergency phone line) or at least a day a week working at home with a small pay rise. More riding time!
2) Say “no thank you”. He can’t sack you for that.

Which ever you choose, you’ll feel better for facing up to him/the issue.

Good luck.

You’d have to be daft imo. But maybe a compromise option can be reached.

You’d have to be crazy. That said, you can reject it explaining why (factually and without pointing the finger…) and explain under what circumstances you would take it on – eg they take on another admin who can then share the overnight monitoring, maybe state more clearly the response (1 hour during work hours, 4 hours outside or whatever since by the sounds of it the actual response time was more like 6+ hours at nigth time). And also agree a pay rise because there’s no way you’d do that for the same money or they take on someone else to add to the team.

Write the spec of what you will do and present it to him, it’s called negotiations.

“And also agree a pay rise because there’s no way you’d do that for the same money.”

your bosses wage and your wage together + a hassle factor – the 20% for the work you will be able to delegate would be a good starting point….but still wouldnt be enough for me….. your boss left for good reason.

Can you accept the job but with a solid agreement that you’ll implement the outsourcing of the cover?

And that you’ll get a worthwhile rise of course.

a solid agreement

😆

I’d start off with a clear list of what you will do and what they’ll do in return, in writing – that it’s got to this situation would not fill me with confidence that any verbal commitments would be met – eg you’ll cover the phones out of hours for 3 days a week but not from 11pm to 7am for example. Someone else will have to cover the phones for the other days.

In return, they’ll pay you £X a month more.

Thanks but not thanks unless you can command what that extra time is worth monetary/perks wise.

Think he could get shitty if you turn it down?

Great username for this thread btw.

To me this sounds like the following are the two options

1) Take the promotion and get paid to do the higher level position (goodbye life)

2) Don’t take the promotion and get paid the same salary as you currently do but the extra work will find it’s way to you regardless (goodbye life)

Personally I found no amount of money (and it was a lot) was worth being on call but thats a personal decision – was fine with it earlier in life, was almost exciting, but now I just wouldn’t do it.

I would expect an extremely healthy rise as compensation. Without a proper handover from the previous encumbent, I’d expect it to be even bigger – the CEO cocked up, he has to fix that one way or other.

Have you sat down and discussed this with the CEO? Ive found people to be more than reasonable when presented with concerns like this. Perhaps you could agree to working 1 weekend in 4 or something to ensure you have a reasonable work/life balance or TOIL when you do end up working a weekend.

If he isnt reasonable and demands you do it all, then your decision not to accept or go elsewhere is easy, if he meets you halfway then you get a payrise, promotion and a happy boss. You just need to ensure his expectations are the same as yours before you start the role, once you accept the goal posts wont be moved (at least by you)

It’s worse than being on call too, it’s like being on call and guaranteeing that you’ll be disturbed every two hours. I genuinely can’t comprehend that. You’ll be a wreck with sleep deprivation if nothing else!

Oh and massive pay rise, better title and start looking for a new job today.

Just say I’m flattered but no thanks.

Did I read it that you would be setting your alarm every 2 hours?
If so I hope your single because you soon will be if not.

That is crazy. I did IT on call type work for a few months many years ago but that was 4 days at a time and only being ready to accept calls during non-working hours (and then fixing the problems), NOT having to actively check for problems.

Plus from what your sales people seem to be promising you’d have to be permanently on call while cycling which would be a pain.

He can’t expect you to accept the position without informing you of the remuneration you will be getting.

So far as the email checking – can this not be done via some sort of alert system e.g. if a particular email arrives that needs to be immediately addressed then a text is sent to your phone? Or do all emails need to be responded to?

Fortunately, we don’t actually have an official SLA which determines coverage time or response time but all the sales people promote “24/7 email support” – which is absolute bollocks and the CEO is running the company on a wing & a prayer

Back to the day job mindset, with over sla you have no real requirements on response. I cover a range of 15-18hrs of up time for customers but they know which time zone I am in and I will respond in office hours my time, I do sometimes do more depending what time it is and what I’m up to, I’ve done tech support from the hill and the pub.
Second point, what’s the support level, number of calls, urgency and time of call. Do your customers call at night, do they need a 2hr response? Do some research and see if you can get rid of the target/requirements on evidence.

Not having formal SLA doesn’t mean that the customer doesn’t expect specific service if they’ve been sold on 24/7 – it just means that when a customer has a problem that isn’t dealt with as fast as they expect, the crap will hit the fan and it’ll be the OP left to deal with it.

a solid agreement

I’d start off with a clear list of what you will do and what they’ll do in return, in writing

I’d regard a solid agreement as being in writing yes.

Still no guarantee it’ll be stuck to, but you’ve made your intent clear and the most-impoirtant thing is taking ownership of the issue yourself anyway.

– it just means that when a customer has a problem that isn’t dealt with as fast as they expect, the crap will hit the fan and it’ll be the OP left to deal with it.

No the sales team is selling what doesn’t exist and the customer has nothing in writing to say they get that. I love dealing with mugs who believe the sales pitch and don’t read the contract.

Just for clarification, I personally shouldn’t be providing the out of hours coverage, as the two network admins will be doing this. However, the junior network admin only starts work today and I don’t know what his capabilities are. I guess I’ll find out when I meet him later.
Also, I have told the CEO I won’t get involved in the out of hours coverage as it stands now but, as team leader, its still my responsibility… even without this, I’d still have to take on my bosses other responsibilities within office hours….

It sounds like the expectation being placed on you would break numerous parts of the European Working Time Directive which is law rather optional. The key statements are listed below:

A limit of an average 48 hours a week on the hours a worker can be required to work, though individuals may choose to work longer by “opting out”

5.6 weeks’ paid leave a year

11 consecutive hours’ rest in any 24-hour period

A 20-minute rest break if the working day is longer than six hours

One day off each week

A limit on the normal working hours of night workers to an average eight hours in any 24-hour period, and an entitlement for night workers to receive regular health assessments.

The 11 hours uninterrupted rest clause would not be compatible with the on call expectations.

I had this battle about ten years ago when the company I worked for at the time tried to get the IT consultants (who normally worked on customer sites and spent a lot of time travelling) to provide an on call service for customers during non business hours. This was ludicrous as we would often get an urgent call at 6pm and not be able to respond until we got home at 9pm (having left home at 6am so not really motivated to help after a 15 hour day). It took a lot of fighting and escalation (my manager at the time insisted that time spent driving to customer sites could be classified as resting time) but we managed to get rid of it and the penny-pinching bean counter whose bright idea it was got the boot.

Not having formal SLA doesn’t mean that the customer doesn’t expect specific service if they’ve been sold on 24/7 – it just means that when a customer has a problem that isn’t dealt with as fast as they expect, the crap will hit the fan and it’ll be the OP left to deal with it.

In reality, we don’t get that much in or out of hours support calls or emails as the product and our systems are pretty solid. But we do have clients in 4 different time zones and occasionally we get emails (which CEO monitors himself as he likes to micro manage) at weird times. Shit hit the fan a couple of weeks ago when an email received in the early hours was not responded within some arbitrary time the CEO thought it should of.

Well the ceo should have replied, it’s amazing how much a good out of office, thanks for the request our team are looking into it etc works.

People’s understanding of the word ‘promotion’ can vary so much – it’s often used as a sweetener, to get somebody to take on a whole load of extra duties that are a PITA.
Also, be wary of ’The Peter Principle’ – although I don’t think it applies, in your case.

Do you know how much your old boss was being paid?

That obviously is not enough…

Lol @ the “Peter Principle”! In this case, the work itself isn’t particularly difficult, but the volume of work is not managable and the nature of our sales pipeline means it’s impossible to predict and plan workloads.

My main concern is that the network admins jack to job in or can’t do the out of hours work, and I end up having to do this.

As of this time, I’m waiting for the CEO to make me an offer before deciding whether it’s worth it…

Old boss was a director/part owner and is walking away completely. He doubts he’ll receive anything back on his original investment…

“Do you want more work?”

“What’s in it for me?”

“Nothing.”

“No, then.”

then again, consider the Dilbert Principle

The Dilbert Principle
The Dilbert principle refers to a 1990s theory by Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams stating that companies tend to systematically promote their least-competent employees to management, in order to limit the amount of damage they are capable of doing. Wikipedia

To me this sounds like the following are the two options

1) Take the promotion and get paid to do the higher level position (goodbye life)

2) Don’t take the promotion and get paid the same salary as you currently do but the extra work will find it’s way to you regardless (goodbye life)

Nope, 3 options.

3) Say thank you and that you’ll spend this week looking into the role/team/responsibilities and meet with him in a week or so with your thoughts of how to move this forward. And how much/grade increase etc can you expect?

Best thing I ever did was move into management, now other folk have to do the work 🙂

I’ve got to say that I agree with br.

I took a punt and accepted the job. It was hellish for 2 years, never looked back since though.

Asked a similar question a few weeks ago. I do a job that I enjoy. The work/stress/money ratio is good but an imminent promotion could upset the balance:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/turning-down-a-promotion

When I was young and naive I took on my managers job, whilst doing my own, when she went on maternity leave for what my boss said would be 6 months. 6 months became a year. After a year she returned to do a couple of days a week in sales. When she came back full time it was to ‘help me out’ and continue with the sales work. I promptly resigned and gave them sod all notice.
I was rewarded very well during the 18 months, but it was awful, I was working my socks off and making myself Ill whilst constantly being promised that I would rerun to my old role when my manager came back full time.
Whatever choice you make, make sure that you have an agreed timeline that is adhered to.