Diy will writing kit

looking into this as something i should really sort now we have kids

i dont want anything fancy at all.

DIYable?

ive read about PO kits but so far googling it pulls up loads of solicitors trying to sell me will writing…

whilst not a qualified lawyer i did study law at uni so not a complete dunce when it comes to these sorts of things.

Yes. Our will was straightforward with the only complexity being who looked after the kids if we both died simultaneously.

Downloaded a (Scottish) template will for families for £20 iirc and adapted it.

Job jobbed.

Or pick the charity of your choice and give a small amount in your will (optional) to get it for free
https://getinvolved.yha.org.uk/donate/gifts-in-wills

TBH most lawyers do a really cheap deal on wills (they must consider it a loss-leader) and if they are any good, will suggest some issues that you might not have thought of yourself, or at least not fully enough.

With children involved you will want to be thinking about who looks after them and also stewardship of your money in the case that you and your wife die in the same car crash. Without children, “all to spouse” can certainly be a DIY job if that’s the intention.

I think Which do a DIY service and that’s probably where I’d start.

reason we havent done this is we really dont have any relations that are either close we woukd trust or are elderly if we both died.

So we genuinely dont have an answer to what if we both go.

chap at work said a simple will cost him £800 by the time ‘extras’ were added which sounds steep. for a few hundred i would probably use a solicitor but not that sort of cost

will look into the charity link above, thanks

Madame and I did ours a couple of years ago, cost 280 I think for two. They weren’t quite mirror wills, some minor but normal requirements regarding what goes to who. We thought we had thought everything through and new what we wanted but the solicitor was exceptional and pointed out various issues we were unaware of. So very much money well spent

Use a solicitor; a (relatively) straightforward will costs £200 – 300.

As you have children, you should be considering an inheritance trust until they get to the specified age to inherit.

What happens if you and partner split up, you die first and children are not of an age to inherit? Unless you make suitable legal provision for this, the other parent will inherit everything.

Dependant on the likely value of your estate, CGT may be a consideration.

If you’re confident you can properly cover those off in a DIY will, crack on.

As for your mate referring to additional charges for ‘extras’, without knowing what they were and the level of complexity I would ignore their comments.

The cost of not using a solicitor could be considerable.

To add – 10 minutes of phone calls will get you 5 quotes.

Member of our family did one on the cheap. Slightly sloppy wording could have, if pursued and exploited, meant disinheritance. Money can make people/family members show their true colours in extraordinary ways. Don’t f about, get it done properly.

“What happens if you and partner split up, you die first and children are not of an age to inherit?”

If you divorce, your ex-spouse is treated as if deceased. Though admittedly “split up” doesn’t necessarily mean divorce has taken place.

My question was predicated on the other partner being principal carer for the children.

I wouldn’t be quite so ‘relaxed’ as you about the circumstance I used as an example.

As my ex and I had – and updated – a will when we were married with children and I’ve now finalised v2 of my current will with my now adult children and grandchildren being beneficiaries, I’ve been asked by solicitors to think about these and other related matters.

My elder son and his partner had a son and then split up – two unrelated issues; they were not married.

Son’s will has been structured such that his former partner has no claim on his estate; if you don’t do this properly the potential for a money/property/asset grab is there to be exploited.

If you don’t have children/grandchildren these considerations may seem pointless; they are anything but.

As Bill points out above, the ‘law of unintended consequences’ can easily come into operation when it comes to money and, specifically, inheritance not going to the intended recipient.

As an aside but to illustrate my point about Bill’s post…the ex-husband of a former partner of mine whose parents had a reasonable sized estate went to their house to complain loudly and at length that the divorce had deprived him of part of his rightful inheritance.

I’m talking about a bloke who was in a responsible ‘middle management’ role.

TL:DR – use a solicitor; the downside of cocking-up a DIY will is too big a risk.

Sounds like peoples families are far more complex than ours,

only way I’m leaving my wife and kids is in a casket.  Of course who knows what can happen but if I was writing a will now that is how it is,  no ex partners / complications.

i appreciate that’s not the case for  everyone

My main concern is the kids being looked after if we both go, but, hopefully that is a very very small risk

oh and to ensure the majority of the estate goes to the kids and not the government

Not advice at all but might be worth checking your employee benefits. The one that gives me points for walking that I can convert into Google/Apple vouchers* also provides a free Farewill will and another will service that may or may not fit your needs.

* Yes, this is kind of infantile and post capitalist surveillance weird whatever but I walk anyway so may as well convert steps into money 🤷

So, DT, call a few solicitors on Thursday morning for quotes/indicative prices for what you think is a straightforward will.

Your life, your family, your estate, your money, your risk of getting it wrong if DIY is not done properly.

I paid for professional legal advice; money very well spent, in my view.

reason we havent done this is we really dont have any relations that are either close we woukd trust or are elderly if we both died.

in some ways that makes it more important; if the obvious solution exists and everyone would be happy with it you wouldn’t need to include that in the will.  You can’t force someone to take your kids through a will (even if they agree now – they get to say no after you are gone).

So we genuinely dont have an answer to what if we both go.

sounds like the sort of thing a solicitor would be able to discuss/explain.  Eg you can (as I understand it) appoint people who would be responsible for making the decisions but expressly state there would be no expectation that those people would need to provide day-to-day care.

chap at work said a simple will cost him £800 by the time ‘extras’ were added which sounds steep. for a few hundred i would probably use a solicitor but not that sort of cost

that doesn’t sound like a simple will – so either he’s made life complex, he’s trying to do some very clever IHT planning or he’s including powers of attorney in the package.

Just had mine and the wife’s will done by local solicitor,£250 + vat.

Just see a solicitor. Easy, inexpensive, and professional advice.

There’s usually some will writing week or suchlike each year to encourage folks to do a will. Many solicitors offer a low or fixed fee deal during that period if I remember correctly.

the solicitor will also help sort you out with other important things like power of attorney.

DT78 – When my grandma wanted to update her will it seemed really simple. Split everything 50/50 between her 2 daughters. They were both married with children (me being one of them) and had been happily so for years. How hard could it be?

The solicitor pointed out some things obvious, some less so and some consequences. All theoretical but worth considering.

If the money os split between 2 daughters and one pre-deceases then the other gets everything and half the family/grandchildren are effectively disinherited.

If it is left to the daughters and their partners and a daughter dies then the partner gets all their money and might run off with a Thai Bride taking the money with them.

IF she skipped a generation and left it to the grandchildren then some were over 18 and others over 18 so who were the guardians, trust controllers etc.

Loads of ‘unforeseen circumstances’ that were picked up by the solicitor. Probably worth spending about £250 to get it done.

Post up who you use and if they are any good as I have just realised that my will leaves money to both my daughter and her EX husband.

Post up who you use and if they are any good as I have just realised that my will leaves money to both my daughter and her EX husband. a list of all the considerations your chosen solicitor suggests and save us all the hassle of doing it ourselves.

only way I’m leaving my wife and kids is in a casket

I hope it goes the way you want. Sometimes life gets a bit more complicated. While wills can’t anticipate all circumstances, the experience and skill of a professional can mitigate against some complications.

and of course if your circumstances change then you should consider revising your will and associated ‘difficult circumstances’ documents.

only way I’m leaving my wife and kids is in a casket – I don’t think many people plan to get divorced years in advance but sometimes situations happens. Best put something in the will to deal with the most common ones, even if you don’t think they will happen to you.

If you write something in the will to deal with a situation that doesn’t arise then there is no problem.
If you write something in the will that doesn’t deal with a situation that does arise then there is a problem.

When we realised we needed a will after having kids, we found a locally recommended guy who came round, took some details, asked some questions about scenarios we’d not considered then went away and wrote a straightforward will (one for each of us, essentially mirrored) for £300. Worth every penny IMO.

What if you shuffle off and everything goes to your wife. She remarries sometime in the future and has a similar lax approach to a will with her new husband. She then dies and he inherits everything from her. At this point your children have zero from your inheritance and unless the new husband is decent and explicitly leaves some to them when he dies they won’t see anything financially from your or your wifes life efforts.

My wife’s mate is a solicitor and writes wills for a living.

I wanted to do it ourselves. My wife convinced me to spend £250 on her mate doing it.

We don’t have trusts/ complicated bank accounts/ business funds or anything complicated.

It took the lawyer an hour to go through all the complicated things we don’t have.

The document we ended up with Is nothing different to one I could have written with a free template off the internet.

We haven’t seen lawyer “mate” since then. 5 years ago.

Summary- if you have complicated money stuff going on get a solicitor. If you don’t know if your stuff is complicated get a solicitor. Otherwise DIY.

Note- neither of us have died so we haven’t tested the will for being fit for purpose.

so your supposed to include all the ‘what ifs’ you can think of?

i had the naive view that i’d amend my will when things happened, for instance divorce/death of partner, otherwise i can see you spending a silly amoubt of time…. what if i divorce, what if i remarry, what if i have more kids with my new wife….etc…. none of which is remotely on the cards.

i suppose its down to having a just in time mindset. appreciate that you dont always have the time to react to things if they make you dead though

i have tried for a few years running to get a will sorted during those ‘free’ weeks and never been able to get an appointment despite applying on the day they open up. seems a bit of a con

If kids are involved use a solicitor. If you are leaving it all to the cats home then not much point.

And yes – there are many ‘what ifs’ you won’t have thought of. Future care and financial arrangements for children if you both get run over by a bus is the main issue.

My main concern is the kids being looked after if we both go, but, hopefully that is a very very small risk

oh and to ensure the majority of the estate goes to the kids and not the government

Yet you’re not prepared to invest in ensuring this occurs…

If kids are involved use a solicitor. If you are leaving it all to the cats home then not much point.

actually, if you are leaving a sizeable amount to a charity then do involve a solicitor!  Some of the most contentious Will cases are those pursued by charities!

Issues that a solicitor might raise – what should happen if your chosen charity has been wound up before you die?  Should there be restrictions on what your charity can spend it on?    There may also be rules that mean you can’t 100% disinherit certain family members (that is the case in Scotland), or at least processes to follow and nobody wants to see their inheritance gobbled up in legal fees because they wrote something which doesn’t stand up.

Of course you update (replace) your will if circumstances change significantly. It’s normal enough to word it flexibly enough to account for children being born or beneficiaries dying first, however.

But with children in the picture you certainly need to cover all the plausible ways you and your current wife may pop your clogs and/or re-marry.

so your supposed to include all the ‘what ifs’ you can think of?

well more importantly all the what ifs you haven’t thought of!

i had the naive view that i’d amend my will when things happened, for instance divorce/death of partner,

some events will be so significant, so slowly developing and for you not traumatic that you will have time to think about, remember and take action before your own tragic demise!  BUT the reality is most people are lazy with wills (it would be difficult for you to honestly say you are not – given your haven’t got one!) and don’t like paying solicitors for something they hope not to need for a long time so tend to ignore them!  So often it’s easier to write a will that covers the reasonably forseable stuff – but what’s forseable to you and to a solicitor may be very different.

i have tried for a few years running to get a will sorted during those ‘free’ weeks and never been able to get an appointment despite applying on the day they open up. seems a bit of a con

i’ve never tried, I suspect you are more likely to succeed if you book it via the charity BUT there is an implicit expectation that you will leave a donation to that charity then and I don’t like that.

To expand on my point above we set our wills up something along these lines.

• Change house to tenants in common (50/50)*.
• Define a trust that the share of a deceased partner would go into with children as beneficiaries (one each of our siblings as trustees).
  • Surviving partner has lifetime interest so house cannot be sold from under them.
  • House can be sold but any onward purchase (if > 50% of sale price IIRC) needs to be split in the same way between trust and surviving partner (i.e. protecting growth on the trust’s share). Proceeds over onward purchase split 50/50 between surviving partner and trust.
• Define who would look after children, and who if first choice couldn’t and who if first and second choice couldn’t.

* doing this also protects half the house against care fees of one partner in the future.

There were other bits that I cannot remember off the top of my head but the above was the more complex element.

the sticking point to this not happening is there is bascislly no one we trust to look after the kids who arent elderly.

and its not im not willing to ‘invest’ its im asking how hard is it to DIY. like i said i am far from being an idiot. for instance i managed to get 10k out of hrmc due to a loop hole in stamp duty calc. solictor wanted to take a big chunk of it for essentially filling out forms so i DIYd the legal claim

if it is only a few hundred then its probablu not worth my time researching it all, although this is something i like tk do, my point of refernce before this thread was someone saying it cost them £800 for a simple will

the sticking point to this not happening is there is bascislly no one we trust to look after the kids who arent elderly.

Being looked after by someone elderly is better than dropping into the care system, and even a slightly delinquent relative is better than the care system. I’m sure you have friends who would also take care of them too should the shite hit the fan. Basically don’t leave it to under resourced local authorities to decide their fate.

My sister-in-law was 1st on the list for our daughter, my parents 2nd on the list. All agreed beforehand of course, you can’t just name someone.

Yesterday I spoke to a solicitor that I got in touch with via the National Free Wills Network.  There are loads of charities on there and I plan to give a bit to one on the list.  Really easy to get an appointment.

They basically said that what I’d thought would happen if I’d DIY’d it probably wasn’t the best way.  Suggested mirror wills, which I’d not heard of and a bunch of other stuff.  Total cost for two people will be £30 for ID checking.  It does say if your will is complex you may be charged extra.

They also talked about power of attorney for finances and health which is where the cost for two people was more like £800.  However no hard sell and they also pointed out that you can DIY them and just pay court fees at about £300

the sticking point to this not happening is there is bascislly no one we trust to look after the kids who arent elderly.

and its not im not willing to ‘invest’ its im asking how hard is it to DIY. like i said i am far from being an idiot. for instance i managed to get 10k out of hrmc due to a loop hole in stamp duty calc. solictor wanted to take a big chunk of it for essentially filling out forms so i DIYd the legal claim

Look – you can write a will yourself.  You can get a template on line, a kit from WH Smiths OR you can just clearly write your instructions in plain english sign it and have it witnessed.  BUT you’ll likely miss a few points that a lawyer would cover.  A simple scenario with rational family and likely it will all go fine. However you’ve got an issue you don’t know how to resolve – a solicitor seems like a sensible solution to that.  FWIW ours stated something to the effect of “My Brother and my Wife’s Sister” are responsible for agreeing what happens to the kids and managing funds to be held in trust for them, but are under no obligation or expectation that they will directly care for them (they probably would, but it might not be in their interests to up-sticks to live with Aunty, when we have some very good friends locally – depending on ages etc).  But then it needs to cover the possibility that either of them are no longer available to perform that role etc.  Winning a battle with HMRC is admirable, but the staff there are able to clarify points, aren’t necessarily out for a fight and often have a degree of cooperation with people acting on their own behalf rather than as professionals.  You won’t be there to clarify what you meant in your will, or to say “ah its getting messy, lets get expert help now”, correct a mistake etc.  Of course, there’s no certainty that paying a solicitor will stop a psycho relative from arguing the toss about it.

Its a bit like house conveyancing – criminal law, commercial contract, IP lawyers etc don’t DIY that and most won’t DIY their wills either because there are some special nuances to get right.

We paid a solicitor for ours even though we also have a very ‘straightforward’ family setup with no complexity of funny business. It was still reasonably eye opening in that there were scenarios we hadn’t considered and seemed worth it to me to make sure it was done correctly to best reflect our wishes.

The problem of course is that you never get to find out whether what you did worked as intended, so might as well give yourself the best chance of getting it right up front.

The missus and I keep talking about this. She’s far more risk averse than me, so it’s unlikely we’ll go down the DIY route. I’ve no issue with that as we have a son, but I’d like to think we can cap the spend to a sensible level. Her mum spent literally thousands on hers due to the number of pensions/accounts that her husband had. I really can’t see how that type of fee is justified. I think some of these people must have attended the vetinary school of profiteering.

I detest handing over money to solicitors.  Despite that I handed over £400 a few weeks ago rather than mess about.  Seems I’ve been charged pretty handsomely….

I’ve seen a small glitch in a will, not contested or anything, end up costing over £2K in fees to the robbing barstewards.  Don’t fancy that.

Two weeks on from this thread being opened – DT78, have you done anything yet?

Clearly not wishing anything adverse to happen to you and Mrs DT – what would happen if you and your wife died in a road accident and child/children survived before you made a will?

Unlikely that would happen? Yes.

Impossible to happen? No.

Legal guardianship for children and a properly drawn-up will are, IMO, absolutely essential.

Dithering and not sorting is irresponsible.

I detest handing over money to solicitors. Despite that I handed over £400 a few weeks ago rather than mess about. Seems I’ve been charged pretty handsomely….

To play devil’s advocate…they would probably charge you again to make an amendment…that’s how they earn money.

That aside… the benefit you get is that it’s (presumably) legaly sound.

You won’t get that with an unofifical or un-cited will written on a napkin.