Digital SLR info: buy now or wait for new stuffs?

Right. I’ve decided to cash in on my vast gold reserves while the price is at a great premium (scrap gold is thirteen quid a gramme!!), and use the money raised to invest in a decent DSLR, cos I want/need to get back into tography again after several years out.

I have a bunch of Nikon kit, including short zoom, wide angle and telephoto lenses, 2 decent flashguns etc. A nice F5 which needs to go to raise funds (sob), as it’s sitting there useless tbh. Film is hard to find (decent slide and B+W), and hard to find quality processing labs. So, no point in persisting with film any more really, considering the quality of dijical these days. I’ll keep the FM2 for a bit of occasional hairy retro action though….

So, what I’d ideally like is a Nikon D700, as it has the full frame FX sensor. Means all my existing lenses will work as I’m used to, plus I can buy cheap older MF lenses.

At £1800 new, I’d be looking a s/h, but they’re still about £1200 for a good un.

Thing is, right, surely Nikon must be bringing out a replacement/cheaper FX sensor cam soon? Sense to wait a bit, take advantage of the glut of D700s which will appear as soon as a replacement is announced? Will there be a ‘consumer’ FX cam in the price bracket of a D300? Is the D700 worth getting anyway? Anyone here use one?

Anyone want to make me an offer on an F5 in very good nick? (Sob) 😥

Thoughts please. Feel free to argue about different brands if you must, I’ll be sticking with Nikon anyway you won’t change my mind there; also feel free to spout on about ‘the bokeh’ and how the 50mm 1.4 is vastly superior to the 1.8, etc etc etc…

Like computers innit. The best time to buy one is always in 6 months time.

* wanders off to google Canon 550Ds AGAIN

No not really Geoff. I’ve always said that when dijical matches fillum, then I’ll switch. With the FX sensor, this moment has arrived, I feel. You’re playing with the same size of ‘neg’, aren’t you?

Have toyed with the idea of getting a cheap s/h D100/200 or something, or even a basic D70 just to play about with, but budget will be tight, and I’ll probbly need every penny I can raise for a decent cam.

Only issue with the D700 is it’s a bloody big bugger. something smaller would be better for me really. A dijical FM2 would be perfect….

Have a look on here:

Thom Hogan.[/url]

He generally knows what’s going on at Nikon, and doesn’t predict a cheaper full frame camera soon.

I think he might be blowing out a bit of smoke here:
Canon have one, so it doesn’t make much sense for Nikon to rule themselves out of a lucrative market sector.

And don’t completely discount DX.
The quality can be amazing, and it’s very cheap compared to the current FX stuff.
My 18-70 DX lens is one of the best I’ve ever owned.

Greys of Westminster have some good deals on cheaper stuff at the mo.

Sorry, I was taking a simplistic view of it really. The sensor size may have got to where you want it to be, but there will always be developments / new models which will push the price of the older models down.

Consumer DSLR Kit with full frame sensor for less than £500 in the next 3 years?

Anyway, surely there should be an advocate of Olympus kit on this thread by now – eh Molly?

I would love to have the cash to buy a D700 & yes its been around for some time now, you are not the only one wishing Nikon would bring out a cheaper/budget FX body 😉

If you are looking at a DX body, the D90 is also a old model and the prices are dropping, not as bulky as a D300/D700, but still a decent camera, been very pleased with mine, please note its not sealed like the D300/700, so you do need to take more care when you are out with it.

Consumer DSLR Kit with full frame sensor for less than £500 in the next 3 years?

That would be very nice 😉

Last word Elfinsafety,

Coming from a life long fan of Nikon kit, have you thought about a Canon D5 used, I know it would mean a total change, but the one I used recently, build and focusing screen were very good & you seem to see them touted about at some silly prices second hand.

Nikon have just released a new compact system camera with an even smaller sensor (CX) so I’m not sure they will ever bring FX sensors to consumer level.

So, what I’d ideally like is a Nikon D700, as it has the full frame FX sensor. Means all my existing lenses will work as I’m used to, plus I can buy cheap older MF lenses.

Have you actually tried a DX body Elf?

All your existing lenses will “work” – it’s just the field of view will be different to what you are used to (a 50mm will have a FoV more like a 75mm).

MF lenses will still work fine and the D80/D90 bodies have the body AF motors so you can use older AF lenses too.

It’d be a change to overcome but it would be considerably cheaper than going for an FX body.

I might be selling my 400D soon if you like? Canon though…

And don’t completely discount DX.

Sorry, but I’m used to proper cams, and DX sensor stuff just messes with my head; I mean, a 24mm lens is a 36mmm on DX, that’s just plain wrong. 😐 I might get a cheapo one for biking and stuff though, something that can be knocked about without worrying too much about it. But I’m used to proper nice cams, I want something tough, water and knock resistant, reliable and capable as a main cam, which is the D100/200/300 level up. Lower models just feel a bit plasticky. When you’ve used stuff like an FM2 and F5, you don’t want a lightweight plasticky cam. I’ve also used Contax, Hasselblad, Leica, so I ‘need’ a solid cam.

I’ve used nice cameras too Elf, F’s, FM’s, Spotmatics etc, but get on just fine with a D80.

You just need to recalibrate your expectations 🙂

A D70s, secondhand, would be perfect to try DX.
Better metering than the later D80, excellent build quality and much cheapness.

The picture quality of a nice DX lens/camera is superb, IMO.

Of course, if you’re not prepared to compromise, you’re just going to have to shell out for D700 aren’t you?

If you use twitter at all follow @hcsheffield (Harrisons Cameras Sheffield) They always have a steady flow of good, quality used items and will post when it comes in, so you can grab.

They are better than Ebay etc, and will also trade any equipment Part EX if required.

When you’ve used stuff like an FM2 and F5, you don’t want a lightweight plasticky cam. I’ve also used Contax, Hasselblad, Leica, so I ‘need’ a solid cam.

Leica do a m9 if you are into your engineering, but tbh, I did not find the transfer from my FM2n/F2’s to digital that hard, anoying frustrating when all I wanted to do was set 125th at f5.6 & I miss the bright split prisim focusing screen, but digital has been a breath of fresh air to me and got me back into enjoiying my photography again, even though I am still learning all over again.

Now if Nikon want to produce a Nikon DM2n I am here waiting with my creditcard 😉

Just a little note… your nice flash guns may not work with a DSLR. Something to do with different voltages or something. Have a google, but I was told not to buy an old flash gun when I was buying mine.

I miss the bright split prisim focusing screen

Do Nikon not offer alternative focus screens? I use both the EE-s and EC-s screens in my Canon bodies and the difference is like night and day (no pun intended).

Find it much much easier to accurately focus with larger f1.2 lenses.

DX sensor stuff just messes with my head; I mean, a 24mm lens is a 36mmm on DX, that’s just plain wrong.

That’s just numbers though innit?

A medium format blokey would think a 50mm lens was wide angle, on FX 50mm is “normal”, on DX it is “longish normal”.

Basically focal length is a bit of a crap way to describe lenses as it means different thing to different film/sensor sizes.

Fair enough on the comments about the quality of the body though. My D80 feels pretty tough (I happily let it hang round my neck, tucked into my jacket while taking photos snowboarding) but I doubt it would stop a bullet.

Bear in mind that even the “pro” D300s is a DX format though.

If I could, I definitely would upgrade to full frame (probably will next year depending on how many weddings I book). But not for the same reasons as you Elf. I also come from a long line of old, metal-bodied Nikons and still have an F4s and a couple of FM2ns.

But I use two D300s for all my work (and a D200 backup which never sees the light of day). And the only reason I’ll be upgrading is better performance in low light. The D300 is light years better than the D200, and I’ve heard from plenty of other pros that the D700 is light years better than the D300.

I’ve had zero issues moving from 35mm lens expectations to crop sensor lenses though – it takes about a day to get your head round the fact that your 50mm is now a perfect portrait lens 🙂 If I was going to get a do-it-all lens, I would get the 18-70mm one mentioned above – it’s immense. I had one which came with my first ever D70s – I gave the whole kit to my Mum and really miss the lens…

A D70s, secondhand, would be perfect to try DX.
Better metering than the later D80, excellent build quality and much cheapness.

Nasty viewfinder though – I upgraded from the D70s to the D80 for pretty much that reason.

Elfin – I have a very good condition, hardly used D200 body that I can sell you at a good price. I’ve been procrastinating about selling it for ages as it was bought on an ‘I want to get into photography’ whim and I just never found the time. I’ll even throw in some Cokin filters.

Email in profile if you want to discuss.

Cheers,
Iain.

I’m another one who just wishes someone would build a digital full frame FM2 or OM1 type camera where all the digital bit does is replace the film and the camera remains essentially manual. It’ll never happen though as the market will always be too small.

wishes someone would build a digital full frame FM2 or OM1 type camera where all the digital bit does is replace the film and the camera remains essentially manual

There’s nothing to stop you using a Digital SLR with manual focus, exposure, ISO and white balance. Or am I missing something?

I have a D80 and was hankering after the D700. When it came out I thought that it would signal the end of DX sensors. However the performance of the D7000, especially in low light means that this is now the camera I would buy.
The d700 and D90 are getting long in the tooth now in camera years. Nikon are also a long way behind Canon in the video standards that can be achieved.
I think my next camera will be a DX based replacement for either the D90 or D7000. If Nikon continue to make impressive progress on low light performance and if they can match Canon on video then my custom is assured.

There’s nothing to stop you using a Digital SLR with manual focus, exposure, ISO and white balance. Or am I missing something?

For me, I would love a camera with the build & construction of say a Nikon FM2/FM3, but digital & with added features such as AF/spot metering, but still retain a simple manual exposure system

But as avdave2 said, it will never happen 😉

Anyway, surely there should be an advocate of Olympus kit on this thread by now – eh Molly?

I’m hardly going to recommend Oly to a chap who wants to use all his old Nikon kit now am I? Although the E-3 second hand is probably your cheapest weather sealed rufty tufty pro level camera by miles, I’d expect 🙂

I would not get hung up on sensor size either BUT there is more to it than just the numbers. With a 2x crop factor like me, getting a field of view equivalent to a 50mm in 35mm terms means a 25mm lens, which means a retrofocal design which works out either bigger, heavier, more elements or slower, or any combination of the above. And a 35mm equivalent is just not available, although one is coming out in micro 4/3 but it’s dead expensive.

Also I hate manual focusing without a split circle – however these are retrofittable to most Olys at least.

Could someone not make a roll of 35mm film with sensor on it? Put the electrics in the ‘roll’ part? How hard would it be?

I still like my old/basic Pentax ME super, would be cool to make it digital!

TINAS, I expect that was the first thing they thought of when trying to make digital SLRs.

Film is quite thin, I expect sensors are much thicker.

For me, I would love a camera with the build & construction of say a Nikon FM2/FM3, but digital & with added features such as AF/spot metering, but still retain a simple manual exposure system

But as avdave2 said, it will never happen

Err, just turn it all the interference off. No one’s making you use it you know. 🙂

You’ve got the answer to the question in the second post.

Like computers innit. The best time to buy one is always in 6 months time.

There’s always something new and expensive ‘just around the corner’. You wait and wait and then buy it as soon as you can, just for them to announce something better next week.

You can’t win. Just buy the best you can afford, when you can afford it. If you wait six months, that’s just six months where you could’ve had a camera.

Could someone not make a roll of 35mm film with sensor on it? Put the electrics in the ‘roll’ part? How hard would it be?

It was discussed by a number of people, but reading the problems to overcome at the bottom of this link, I am not surprized one was marketed.

http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/imagek.html

I’m another one who just wishes someone would build a digital full frame FM2 or OM1 type camera where all the digital bit does is replace the film and the camera remains essentially manual

That would be the Leica M8 / M9 ?

Leica also came out with the Module R which was touted as they bolt on digital back for their “R” series cameras, as far as I know it never actually hit the shelves with any success?

Having recently acquired a Fuji X100, I am VERY surprised at what is achievable in the smaller form factor with a dedicated lens, and hopefully it will signal where the market is moving.

Could someone not make a roll of 35mm film with sensor on it? Put the electrics in the ‘roll’ part? How hard would it be?

I remember seeing one of these many years ago – nowt came of it though.
EDIT: Here you go – http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1032460933.html

Having recently acquired a Fuji X100, I am VERY surprised at what is achievable in the smaller form factor with a dedicated lens, and hopefully it will signal where the market is moving

Except that it’s a fixed lens, and is very expensive. I can’t see how it’s any different inside from other full frame cameras to be honest – they are also very expensive.

Having recently acquired a Fuji X100, I am VERY surprised at what is achievable in the smaller form factor with a dedicated lens, and hopefully it will signal where the market is moving.

Something with interchangable lens retailing for a sub £1k would hook a lot of business 😉

But the X100 is as close as it gets for me, nice camera btw

If I win the lottery then no mistakes, a M9 & a tour of the factory would be top of my list 😉

Except that it’s a fixed lens, and is very expensive. I can’t see how it’s any different inside from other full frame cameras to be honest – they are also very expensive.

Not when you compare it to an equivalent Lens, i.e. Canon 35 f1.4, or Summicron F2 at twice the price of the X100?

To me it signals an option to have 2-3 dedicated bodies at various focal lengths. The X100 has become camera of choice for me at least.

I wouldn’t want a fixed lens camera. I have 7 lenses now, no way I’d get 7 bodies to go with them!

Elf – stump up and get the nice camera.. I want to welcome you to the modern era 🙂

Plus I want to see your photos…

Well I won’t be buying a mid-range DX sensor cam, that’s for shore. FX or nowt. I’m just wondering if Nikon will be releasing an FX cam for about a grand or so, soon for the Xmas market.

At the moment, PXing my F5 would get me a s/h D60 or something in a straight swap. Bolluscs to that. I spose I could get a basic dijical cam and zoom kit until the Nikon I want is released, be a doofer.

Oh and my Nikon flashguns are fine with the ‘pro’ DSLRs. Another thing is, you can’t use older AIS lenses on some of the cheaper Nikon bodies, like the D70, as there’s no mechanical aperture activation on those cams, they need AF lenses with electronic aperture control. See?

Hence why I want something like a D700.

Ooh look Leica X1 shiny thing makes for nice no bad Elfin stop to look at evil temptation! 😡

You could get a doofer that would end up being complimentary to your FX camera. Something small and light for instance like an E-PL1 – they are available for buttons occasionally, or an E-450.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OLYMPUS-E-520-DIGITAL-CAMERA-KITS-/300602192639?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item45fd4972ff#ht_1124wt_1119

i would go ahead and get the D700. When i was in the market for a new DSLR i kept thinking about the next camera and how i should wait. With that attitude i would never have bought anything and more importantly would not have got shooting, which is THE most important thing. The D700 will not be as good in low light as its upgrade (not sure as to how often Nikon upgrade models – Canon are on a three year cycle) but it will still be a very competent camera in low light, so long as you have a useful range of primes and not sticking on f/5.6 and wondering why you are having to compensate with ISO 12000.

Elfinsafety

Save a load £££…..

I am selling a d300 kit in the classifieds…….

I would split the kit if anyone was keen on body only…
D300 Kit

Cheers

Having recently acquired a Fuji X100, I am VERY surprised at what is achievable in the smaller form factor with a dedicated lens, and hopefully it will signal where the market is moving

Except that it’s a fixed lens, and is very expensive. I can’t see how it’s any different inside from other full frame cameras to be honest – they are also very expensive.

Eh? It does have some different qualities which make it good for things like street shooting

-hybrid viewfinder
-very quiet leaf shutter and it’s size means you won’t draw the kind of attention you will with a DSLR
-the lens maybe fixed but its decent quality f2 which isn’t bad
-approx 450g, that’s quite light for the punch it packs

The fixed focal length would force you to be creative instead of relying on zooming… more thinking about composition

If you do the type of shooting its intended for then its a good buy surely

For instance, its not made for sports or zooming in on birds of prey ragging it around in the skies