[Closed] Difference between Tiagra, 105, Ultegra gear shifters?

Only ever used 105, on my newish road bike. They are OK but don't have the same precision as my XT MTB shifters. Don't know if Dura Ace or Ultegra are better.....

Selling some 105 5700 2x10 tomorrow on here if your after some.

From a triathlon forum

Dura Ace vs. Ultegra
The major differences are that Dura-Ace has more gear choices, chain ring choices - including triathlon specific chain rings and more crank lengths are available.

Weight: The weight difference is 221 g or 7.8 ounces with Dura-Ace being lighter. If you are a professional rider, the wider choice of gears, chain rings and crank lengths might make or break your season.

Performance: Some mechanics will tell you that Dura-Ace has to be adjusted more often due to the light weight construction and precise tuning. On the other hand, it might have a noticeably better feel for an elite or pro athlete.

Price: Ultegra is significantly less expensive than Dura-Ace. For most of us, the 99.9%, the weight difference won't matter. Don't eat that extra ham sandwich. There, you shaved some weight and saved a lot of money.

Ultegra vs. 105
The major differences between 105's and Ultegra are weight and the 105 is available in a 52-tooth large chain ring rather than a 53-tooth.

Weight: The weight difference is 230 g or 8 ounces with the Ultegra being lighter. The major weight difference is in the crankset. The other components are very close weight-wise.

Performance: According to most mechanics, the Ultegra will probably wear a little better and will probably be a little more durable. That's something to consider for triathletes as many are not 130 lb. road racers.

Price: As for price, there's a noticeable difference when you are purchasing aftermarket. As a complete bike, it probably won't be more than an extra $150 between a 105 and Ultegra tri bike. Go for the Ultegra, save a 1/2 lb. It will also increase your bike's resale value and make it easier to sell when you want that next cooler bike.

Summary
All three of these groups will perform solidly. All three are 10 speed. In fact, due to Shimano's trickle down technology, the 105 of today is better than the Dura Ace of 10 yrs ago.

Why 105 and not Sora or Tiagra? A few reasons are Dura-Ace trickle down technology, construction (plastic steel plate), weight (heavy), durability (lack of compared to 105), 8 speed (not 10 speed).

You can't tell from a ride around the parking lot. 105 components will let you ride more efficiently once you learn to use the added gears. The weight savings, added power transfer from the 2-piece crankset and increased durability will make you happier in the long run. Besides, when you reach season three on the Sora bike, every one will still assume it's your first tri when you show up with that Sora bike. He-he...just kidding.

Latest Tiagra is 10 speed now. Having mates with 105 on their bikes, they are much nicer looking than Tiagra, but the shifting is very similar, if the cables are done properly. 105 runs gear cables under the tape, as opposed to out the side of the shifters. Sora for 2013 is trickle down too with the shifter paddles being the same as opposed to the fiddly button on the side. My shifting was OK on my new cube, but with decent cables ( XTR teflon inner) and sensible cable lengths, shifts very sweet.

I have 105 [with Ultegra shifters] on one bike and full Ultegra on the other. There is a noticeable difference with shifting on the front mech 105 more clunky.
The other noticeable difference is the braking Ultegra calipers for some reason deliver more stopping power its not the pads as they are the same or the rims either. Dont know why and I would guess with Duraace being a true dual caliper they are maybe betterer again ?

The (9 speed) Tiagra on my winter bike is pretty shit frankly. Brakes seized solid, had to replace them, front mech's now done the same - needs a kick to shift. The shifters feel vague, even with new cables.

Not used 6700 Ultegra, but 6600 was a vast improvement, and IMO Dura Ace is in a different league. The 7800 on my Madone is still perfect after 8 years.

carbon lever blades and uglier crankset on 6700 (have 5700 105 and just bought a bike with 6700 Ultegra).

http://road.cc/content/review/10294-shimano-ultegra-6700-groupset

I think its 9 speed Tiagra as the bike is a 2011 model (I think), so 10 speed 105 no good - thanks for the offer carbon337.

I was thinking about a new bike and wondering if I will notice a step up from my existing Tiagra equipped bike to a 105 equipped bike, or whether I'd need to go to Ultegrato notice a difference.

I realise it is all pretty marginal.

I personally prefer the shifting on Tiagra to 105 and Ultegra , running the cables under the bar tape seems to have made the shifting worse .

At one point in time apparently the internals were mostly the same design (how many ways to make a gear with 10 notches in it?) but made from different materials. DA is obviously better than everything else functionally as it gets any improvements first (so maybe 3 years before they make a pressed steel version of the internals to s a similar design for 105).

DA-Ti
Ultegra-aluminium
105-steel
Sora/tigra - plastic and steel
etc.......

Another 7800 (DA with shifters outside the bar tape) user here and very nice it is too.

I raced with 9spd Tiagra and found it shifted just fine. There are reports of the 10spd being a little more fragile. Currently riding Ultegra 6600 with the exposed cables and shifting is flawless. Weight is probably the only real difference to be honest.

There are reports that the older exposed gear cable Ultegra and Dura Ace shift better as the shifters were optimised for the cable entry (unlike campag). But I haven't ridden 6700 to compare.

In general, avoid Sora and below. At the moment 105 bikes look the best value.

ive used 9 sp tiagra, it felt pretty similar to the original 8 sp dura ace from the early 90s tbh, but i now have 10 sp tiagra, its noticably more plasticky and 'cheap' feeling imo.

Another 7800 ( full grupo ) user here and it never misses a beat 8)
My son has a mix of Ultegra ( mechs ) and Tiagra ( shifters ) and it works very nice too.

I actually preferred Sora - quite liked the thumb lever, as it was quite solid, whereas the paddles on Tiagra just seem a cheap flexy mix of steel and plastic?

Maybe its cos I used Sora for years before the Tiagra, so I'm still getting used to the different shifting

munqe chick misses the thumb lever on her 6600 ultegra having got used to it on her Sora (now on winter bike), says she constantly goes to rest her thumb where it isn't!

Never used older (external cable) STIs but consensus is they shift more smoothly than the under-tape cables, but I found 5700 105 a joy to use. Having read the link I posted 😳 looks like there's some useful features on 6700 (adustable levers and calipers) I might have to look at. RTFM and all that.

To me, 5700 105 always feels like it has old cables in even when brand new, my 5600 might look less nice but they shift better because the cable runs are designed for cabling not for looking at 😉

Just upgraded my bike from 5700 105 to 6700 Ultegra

Early days yet, but other than being 300g lighter, the Ultegra setup feels more direct especially shifting at the rear and crank stiffness, but also the shifters are far more ergonomically designed. Not only is the carbon lever more rounded and broader so it feel nicer to use, but being carbon it's much less temperature sensitive to the touch, so is instantly more comfortable to use.

So far for the price I got the Ultegra for, I'm very happy I've made the change.

Also thinking about this. Looking at a bike and for the same price I can either get:

Shimano 105 with Fulcrum 3 wheels (1550g) or
Ultegra 6700 but with Fulcrum 5 wheels (1760g)

Part of me likes the idea of Ultegra but part of me thinks good wheels are more important

Thoughts?

I've 2x10 Ultegra on my posh bike and Tiagra on my commuter. Both change crisply. I find the improvement marginal. It's nice having great toys but don't break the bank.

As a complete bike, get the 105 version. Unless you plan on upgrading in the future - it's clearly much easier to buy wheels than an upgraded groupset.

I'd go for the bike with Ultegra and then upgrade the wheels in 3 months time anyway. But if you're not gonna spend any more at all, then get the lighter wheels as that makes for more of a performance difference.

I do most of my road miles on my Tiagra (9spd) geared Tripster build and when I get on the posh bike with Dura Ace 7800 that, like njee, is getting on for 7 or 8 years old now, it's world's apart. The lighter action is the most obvious difference. I really must get away from the mindset that 'if I do lots of miles in bad weather, there's no point in having really decent kit on it'. I'm planning an Ultegra groupo for the Tripster ATR later this year...

So saying, Tiagra is still very good for the money.

I am currently the workshop manager of a high end store (concept store) specialising in road bikes

I would highly recommend Ultegra if you have the budget, with 105 following close behind. Dura Ace is simply not worth the money, its really just weight savings, bragging rights and 3 year warranty.

Ultegra is a fantastic groupset in terms of sheer performance and value for money, and in my opinion the best road Groupset Shimano currently make both in Di2 and mechanical formats

the big difference between 105 and Ultegra is found in the crankset (you get Hollowform chainring on Ultegra and Dura Ace) and brakes, the shifters and derailleurs, less so...

the difference between an Ultegra HT2 crankset and 105 / Tiagra HT2 crankset is night and day, I have ridden all 3 on the same frame platform.

Ultegra cranks have completely solid feeling when standing on the big ring with all your body weight, and also has a more secure up-shift from small to big ring

the brakes? Ultegra have better modulation, better pads (same compound as dura ace) and the pivots last longer in our wet climate

105 is a great groupset and a good step above Tiagra for serious riding, but Ultegra if wisely used in a mix with 105 or even Tiagra will give performance and durability benefits

Part of me likes the idea of Ultegra but part of me thinks good wheels are more important

I'd go for the groupset over the wheels, wheels are quick and easy to replace, and generaly last less time than the groupset anyway.

I am currently the workshop manager of a high end store (concept store) specialising in road bikes

I would highly recommend Ultegra if you have the budget, with 105 following close behind. Dura Ace is simply not worth the money, its really just weight savings, bragging rights and 3 year warranty.

How does the first paragraph qualify you as an authority on the second?

Dura Ace is better, fact. You may not think the differences are worthwhile, but it is superior. The brakes are better, the shifting is better, it is lighter, and IME it also lasts longer than anything else.

Microshift.

How does the first paragraph qualify you as an authority on the second?

One set of DA shifters here, now 7 years old and work flawlessly after thousands of miles.

One set of 105 shifters on the cross bike which mis-shift and have a dodgy ratchet after 6 months.

DA is certainly expensive but then the best usually is. It definitely outlasts the rest though.

GB

Weirdly, a mate borrowed a £3.5 k bike with Ultegra from a local ' concept' store last weekend. Extrordinarily light carbon bike with a full Ultegra groupset. He is used to riding Tiagra 10 sp. I had a go and to be honest, I was not impressed with the shifting at all.My Tiagra with proper set up cables is much swifter. The components look lovely, but with the cables running under the bar tape and having to make nasty turns to get to the downtube , guess makes more friction.The action of shifting was nicer than Tiagra, but I would have expected that. He rode it all last weekend and was quite disappointed. I am looking at a new build soon and will stick with 105 for it, as for the price difference, couldnt justify the cost.
To upgrade the brakes to Ultegra is easy, smoother cables and better pads, job done.
Was a nice bike but not a £2.5k nicer bike than his current one and has made him think about whether he needs Ultegra for his next bike.
Oh and the Ultegra BB was like a bag of nails and stiff on a hardly used Demo bike, which shows how bad the big S are with BB's

my brother has some older 10speed dura ace, I have new tiara 10 speed on my winter bike. There isn't much difference in look or function that I can see

Oh and the Ultegra BB was like a bag of nails and stiff on a hardly used Demo bike, which shows how [b][i][u]badly jetwashed demo bikes are[/i][/b][/u]

Demo bikes always look pretty and clean, but they always seem to be on the verge of seizing, especially suspension forks!.

Another 7800 (DA with shifters outside the bar tape) user here and very nice it is too.

I have those (might be 7900?) the ones before they went all grey/di2 they stil shift like the first day I used them. Was advised by a friend in the business that it was worth getting the DA shifters even if everything else is ultegra. Had 4 years use out of them and would like to think there's another 4 years to go. I went from the old style ultegra cranks to the current style with the composite big ring which was a good upgrade and not that expensive.

By the time I have to buy another groupset ultegra di2 will be 'mature' so will see if it's worth the extra for DA or stick with ultegra

Been looking to upgrade my Sora shifters to 105 or Ultegra, discounted Tiagra early doors due to the indicator bobbins in the lever which looks a bit naff imo and the wire out the side which is actually the main reason I want to change the otherwise excellent Soras. After a couple of unsuccseful eBay bids I have given up on getting some Shimanos at a decent price and going to give Campagnolo a go, these have the advantage that a 10 speed shifter will work with my 8 speed cassette which is pretty new so I would rather not change it yet.

going to give Campagnolo a go, these have the advantage that a 10 speed shifter will work with my 8 speed cassette which is pretty new so I would rather not change it yet.

Are you sure, unless you're lucky will Campag 10s be the same cable pull as shimano 8? Seems hugely unlikely! You'll need a campag mech, and chain/cassette, and a new rear wheel too as the cassette splines are different. And a campag front mech.

I'd stick with the Sora's until they stop working. And apart from visually, the external gear cables are far superior to under the tape models (seems to be the one thing everyone on this thread agrees on).

I think mechs are all the same regardless of brand as are teeth on the cranks and cassete across 8,9 and 10 speed. only difference should be cassette spacing which just happens to be the same on Shimano 8 and Campag 10.

Google Shimergo for a better explanation that I can do on my phone.

Fair enough, looks like it can be bodged. You'd still need a new wheel and mech in addition to the chain/cassette if you ever wanted 10 speed though which would wipe out any savings over buying shimano STI's.

Its not really a bodge just ignoring the marketing guff.

I run Mavic wheels, you can swap the free hub body for £20. Derailliers are not specific to type they just move across however much the shifter tells them. I would need the free hub mentioned and a cassette and chain which get changed every 12 months or so anyway.

So its + £20 over Shimano but thats accounted for by getting use out of my existing stuff.

Worth it to see how it works out and to have something different.

I run Mavic wheels, you can swap the free hub body for £20. Derailliers are not specific to type they just move across however much the shifter tells them. I would need the free hub mentioned and a cassette and chain which get changed every 12 months or so anyway.

Err... Derailleurs are indeed specific, they move as much as the shifter tells them, but that ratio varies. Shimano, SRAM and Campag are all different - although as you're saying there are bodges (they are bodges). You cannot combine SRAM double taps or mechs with any other brand of mech/shifter for example. Shimano rear mechs are all interchangeable between 8/9/10 speed though.

A high end Mavic freehub body is more too, £50+

Its only different on some sram all others are the same. We weren't talking sram, though we were talking campagnolo and shimano which are all the same.

Your right about the free hub body though best I can find is £40 which still makes it worth a go.

Cheers.

No, they're still not the same. You can't use a Super Record mech with Dura Ace shifters for example.

Your straw clutching at very obscure versions mate.

I'm done.. G'night.

Theres a good article on the Sheldon Brown website for anyone who want to get the full picture.

[url= http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html ]Here[/url]

No, I'm not, you're being misleading, I suspect unintentionally. It's a compatibility minefield. Campag cassettes are spaced differently and the mechs work to different pull ratios. There are a few bodges, as you've mentioned, but the two brands are [b]not[/b] cross compatible.

I suspect you'll find this out sooner or later if you start juggling components!

[b]How does the first paragraph qualify you as an authority on the second?

Dura Ace is better, fact. You may not think the differences are worthwhile, but it is superior. The brakes are better, the shifting is better, it is lighter, and IME it also lasts longer than anything else.[/b]

@njee 20

my apologies for the delay in responding 😉

basically, our business at the concept store is building, servicing and custom building high end road bikes; we don't see much under Shimano 105 or SRAM Apex in our store?

this includes talking to, and working with many customers doing 1000's of miles on this kit

we have many customers flying in and out of London collecting production and custom built road bikes for their needs; as an example we have sold (globally) the highest number of Specialized S-Works McClaren Venge road bikes of any dealer

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we have many amateur and semi-pro tri participants, roadies and sportive riders among our customers, giving lots of feedback to the store

as well as in the store, we all ride road bikes...lots of miles on different bikes with different kit, we get the chance to try out the different groupsets and see what really makes the difference

my statements were not unqualified by any means. Of course, DURA ACE is lovely kit with its weight savings, but ULTEGRA is the best value for money solution; unless you are racing than Dura Ace is somewhat overkill?

if you do your research carefully you will find a good number of PRO road teams using Ultegra cassettes rather than Dura Ace; because Ultegra is much more cost effective and the Ultegra cassette is actually harder wearing than the more expensive Dura Ace cassette with its 1/2 body titanium construction, same goes for chains

brakes? there really isn't a noticeable difference apart from price. the rear brake on most road bikes just gets ruined by UK weather (and road salt) and I would be happier running Ultegra than Dura Ace for that reason

Right, that doesn't make Ultegra better, you're saying that based on your cost benefit analysis you think Ultegra is a more sensible option. Dura Ace [i]is [/i]better performance wise, it's just whether that's worthwhile.

What the pros choose with regards the finer spec isn't always massively relevant with the 6.8kg limit, things like cassettes it just make sense to use Ultegra. That doesn't make Ultegra better (although yes, the steel is of course tougher than ti), it just makes it an obvious place to add weight on a race bike. It's not really about cost savings, nor is it in deference to the improved 'performance' of Ultegra. I don't know anyone Pro or otherwise (and if we're name dropping I know several decent Pros including some TdF riders) who would say hand on heart that Ultegra performs better.

Dura Ace brakes are more powerful. That's a fact. It may not be an appreciable difference to all, but they are better. 9000 series even more so as they've adjusted the pivot location.

You can sell as many McLaren Venges to amateur triathletes as you want, but it doesn't make Ultegra better!

@njee20

thanks for your input

of course Dura Ace is BETTER! (I'd love Dura Ace if I had endless cash to spend!

just like I would rather buy an Nvidia GeForce Titan graphics card (£900)for my gaming PC; rather than the ASUS Nvidia GeForce GTX 670 OC card (£320) I recently bought!

to answer the OP 'mtbtomo' who said: "Would I notice a difference with 105, or do you need to go up to Ultegra or even Dura Ace gear shifters?"

he is not going to notice any real difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace gear shifters. that is what he asked about...

definite difference between 105 and Ultegra STI shifter (I own 105 and wish I had bought Ultegra)

difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace STI shifter? not worth considering all other thing being equal?

spend the money on the derailleurs and brakes, you will notice a difference in degradation over a UK winter between 105 brakes / mechs and ultegra brakes / mechs