I’m afraid it’s far too useful (and I suppose I have to admit embedded in my life). For keeping up with all my friends who live in other parts of the country and world, and for organising stuff in the groups I belong to. Personally I do however run ghostery and never authorise apps to do stuff with my data – though I get that the issue is with the way it’s allowed people who aren’t so careful to be manipulated. TBH I’m sure Google has far more information on me as I’ve authorised it to have a lot more info – I ain’t going to be deleting Google.

aracer

TBH I’m sure Google has far more information on me as I’ve authorised it to have a lot more info – I ain’t going to be deleting Google.

Well you could use a different search engine, but i feel like we’re just scraping the surface of this problem here. Imagine you share pictures of your children on Facebook (as many people do) and by a combination of image recognition and your likes and interests Facebook determines that you are overweight. It knows who your wife is, she’s also overweight and getting fatter.

Now your daughter is entering puberty and Facebook’s image recognition can see she’s gaining weight. Her search history includes diet advice. Then she starts getting bullied via Facebook, Facebook recognises that she is at an emotionally low point and starts targeting her with adverts for sugary foods and drinks, or even plastic surgery. And because of google home/ Or Amazon echo it concentrates it’s marketing just before you order your weekly shop so your daughter can either add this to the list or ask you to get it.

That’s not even outlandish, it’s basically happening. It could probably guess what diseases you’re likely to suffer from and start selling you medication, for better or for worse.

Then she starts getting bullied via Facebook

Except hardly any kids use Facebook.

I have an account which I won’t be deleting. As I’ve said before, bands, rides, erm, well, that’s it – music and bikes. I follow a few of those to see what’s going on locally.

Mine away.

jimjam wrote:

Well you could use a different search engine,

I’m meaning more than just the search engine – I have Android and all the apps which come with that, and my business email is on gsuite. I did resist for a while there with how much access I gave it, but Google has managed the trick of making it so that you lose out on a lot of useful stuff if you don’t let it track you. There isn’t the same level of utility with putting all my details on FB, let alone allowing some random “fun” app to see all my photos or profile details.

My employer buys Facebook advertising to target specific groups, not to sell things but to encourage awareness of particular issues.

They know they need to go this as the conventional internet adverts have a low click ratio from the target demographics.

Facebook can sell you a geographic, age range, lifestyle type, political leaning, basically any group you want you can target specifically.

It’s nothing to do with how much you post on their, it’s far far cleverer than that as some posts have outlined.

Clever individuals creating miserable outcomes with powerful tools. This is why we can’t have nice things people.

Dezb

Then she starts getting bullied via Facebook

Except hardly any kids use Facebook.

That doesn’t change the fact that people upload pictures of their kids to Facebook, and those kids will transfer to Facebook when they get a bit older. And if they don’t Facebook will simply buy the next big thing that comes along and integrate it into Facebook. Or if something comes along which supercedes Facebook you’ll have the same issues and we’re still at the same point.

Or if Facebook doesn’t buy the next big thing Google or Amazon will. The aim of these companies is to win as much of your time and money as possible, there’s not a scrap of ethical thought behind it. And I’ll caveat that by saying I still have a facebook account which I use for small e-commerce stuff but not on my phone.

Would you care if someone used lies to win an election?

politicians have been using lies to get elected for a long time before social media existed.

Facebook mined people’s data, sold that data and many people believe it altered the outcome of the US election.

… and the small matter of a recent vote a little closer to home.

Well I’m another “I’m more interested in what google do with my data” than FB TBH.

As I said, a group of scruffy surfers who message each other isn’t going to get any Political targeted messages or ads I’m afraid.. It certainly hasn’t to date and I doubt I ever will be targeted.

I do concur that heavy users of FB might be targeted, I think that’s pretty much a fair point. Yet even then it’s mild in comparison to the shitty Betting adverts that obliterate TV screens during peak hours or Piss Taking Party Political Broadcasts that lie and and make false statements to gain votes from morons.

Thankfully I’m not a moron, and have successfully filtered out the bullshite Political Parties spout.

They’re not lies, it’s ‘alternative truth’

Unless it’s on a bus. That was just a big **** off lie.

Seriously – I do care but while there are people, including some on here, that refuse to accept that we are routinely being lied to and hold people to account for those lies, then it won’t change. All that’s happening is that the lies are being targeted better towards those that will / want to believe them.

Way too useful to delete, use it every day. The main two groups I use are local CF gym (private group) and I’m currently dong an online handstand course (all coached via video uploads to private FB group).

theotherjonv

They’re not lies, it’s ‘alternative truth’

Seriously – I do care but while there are people, including some on here, that refuse to accept that we are routinely being lied to and hold people to account for those lies, then it won’t change. All that’s happening is that the lies are being targeted better towards those that will / want to believe them.

The context is important. The adds targeted at you, using metrics/qualifiers/data that you’re not aware of, based on a profile of you and you might be completely oblivious as to what the subtext is. If you switch on the tv and watch a party political broadcast it’s obvious who the party is, and who their opponent is. A targeted Facebook ad is (on the surface) impartial and the website, video or information it leads you to may well appear impartial or at least, not blatantly partisan for one side or another – it’s just information.

People still don’t get it, do they… it’s not about what YOU post ON Facebook… it is about what you, your “friends” and their “friends” do all over the web, and in apps, and on mobile devices that have those apps installed.

There is no escape. Not posting or liking is no escape.

Anyway… I’ve been using Ghostery for years on laptops etc, and have finally swapped to their replacement browser on the phone. This only reduces exposure, slightly… because as I said, the behaviour of people in your network is more important than your own.

On behalf of all developers, I’d like to apologise for FB and Google being allowed to run their code on nearly all websites. It allows all companies to perform better… but it is also key to us all being were we are politically. There is a reason why the rules for political ads on TV and print are different to the rules for companies selling products and services… it’s time for political web ads of all kinds to be addressed… but that’s going to be tough to achieve when those who can legislate, and those that run FB and Google, have so much to lose from tighter rules and transparency.

As I said, a group of scruffy surfers who message each other isn’t going to get any Political targeted messages or ads I’m afraid

How often do you log into FB and do you remain logged in whilst doing other browsing?

If so they will have a shitload more information than you think.

Google isnt dissimilar especially search and android. For search you can do a fair amount to avoid it.

[ of course, posting on this forum from Ghostery browser is close to impossible – sigh ]

of course, posting on this forum from Ghostery browser

Ghostery have a somewhat dubious reputation.

Personally I run a few trusted sites in the main browser and used a mix of ultra locked firefox (eg noscript) and spin up a private session for those sites which dont play with noscript and shut it down.

Can still be tracked but people have to work hard for it.

Youtube and Twotter are arguably the current heavyweight purveyors of political propaganda/tribalism. It may be that us humans are doomed to repeat an endless cycle of polarised politics/scapegoating.  Same old same old.  The Victorian Penny Dreadfuls didn’t go away, they simply evolved (sic) into tabloids and now clickbait.  The algorithms of which create cycles of echo-chambers with absolutely no journalistic integrity or factchecking required.

Sidebars of shite + global internet addiction don’t bode well IMO.  It could be that long term we grow up and try to make sense of the evolving chaos and choose a better way. Yet, I think that’s a can that gets kicked down the road with every new threat/outrage generated by Web-bound propagandists who are motivated by click-conver$ions and popularity.   To paraphrase:  ‘A lie travels around the World before the truth can pull it’s boots on’

the information that was mined/gleaned was already public as the owners of that information had put it online.

I don’t believe that all the information gathered was all public. If it was, Kogan would not have been paying people to take his survey and requesting permission to harvest their data (and friend’s data). He could simply have scraped all the data directly if it was public.

As soon as you start holding personal data there are very clear rules about what you can keep, how long you can keep it and what you are allowed to do with it. Passing it on to a third party for a different purpose is explicitly prohibited. I'<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>m not even sure that it matters whether the data was public or not. If you are managing the data as a Controller, you have to play by the rules.</span>

Ghostery have a somewhat dubious reputation.

You’d have to be quite special to turn on the “Ghostrank” data collection, in a plugin or browser you have specifically chosen to use to stop data collection.

is this a push back by the mainstream media and the established political machine against the rise of ‘popularism’?

How often do you log into FB and do you remain logged in whilst doing other browsing?

If so they will have a shitload more information than you think

Source?

those kids will transfer to Facebook when they get a bit older.

So you think people grow into Facebook? Don’t be daft. They have other social media outlets is why they don’t use Facebook, not because they’re too young.

There’s so much paranoia on this thread it’s almost funny.

del

is this a push back by the mainstream media and the established political machine against the rise of ‘popularism’?

No it’s just people playing catch-up. This has been a major issue / is a massive issue going forward, it’s just that a clearly definable and newsworthy incident has meant it can be conveyed in a more real or believable way.

Dezb

<em class=”bbcode-em”>those kids will transfer to Facebook when they get a bit older.

What? So you think people <em class=”bbcode-em”>grow into Facebook. Don’t be daft.

Or just ignore the rest of my post….if they don’t migrate from Snapchat to Facebook it’ll be something else. And Facebook will either buy up that something else (like the day with Whatsapp and Instagram) or they’ll develop the next Facebook alternative. Or if it’s not Facebook it’ll be Google, or Apple and the issues will be the same. What’s daft about that statement?

There’s so much paranoia on this thread it’s almost funny.

Yes, the knowledge of others may look like paranoia, if you haven’t made any attempt to reduce your own ignorance about how tracking works.

I’m currently dong an online handstand course (all coached via video uploads to private FB group).

What a time to be alive!

But what is being said is that everyone should #deletefacebook, because everyone is being tracked (even when they’re not using Facebook) and everyone’s data can be used … I dunno, against them? To influence them?

It’s just not true.

I’ve never bothered with FB because I can access the info/services/entertainment/whatever that I want/need/use elsewhere.

Ultimately I don’t mind (perhaps grudgingly accept is a better term)  services I use tracking or knowing things about me. I don’t agree with being tracked by parties with whom I’ve no agreement or have any desire to use. That’s creepy. If you did it in real life you’d be arrested for stalking 🙂 (slight hyperbole there)

everyone’s data can be used … I dunno, against them? To influence them?

“Everyone” ? No.

Consider how marginal many political “wins” are though…

Also, remember, that others are sharing your data, unwittingly, you don’t need to be doing it yourself. And visaversa.

>I dunno, against them? To influence them?

>It’s just not true.

They can serve me all the targeted ads they like, Ad Blocker etc just filters them all out….

YGH – FB purity does it block out all the crap that people like or share ie al the 3rd party stuff?

will be keeping facebook thanks

besides I don’t care they know my data, nothing of interest and I have nothing to hide. The reaction seems to be no more than paranoia. Ive yet to see a convincing argument that such data is a threat to me? I shop at wiggle ( a lot) OMG 🙂

This isn’t about Deleting Facebook though, is it? It’s about the abuse of personal data and the uses it can be put to. If you think people on this thread are being paranoid then I recommend you do some research into how big data and machine learning can and is being used in this area.

Let’s just say that CA was able to provide a way to know a relative you cared very much about had a terminal disease, and based on that an ad or post or somesuch was targeted at just you -or a very small demographic- saying ‘xxxx promises to increase research funding for xxxx Vote for xxxxx’ would you think that is ethical or abusive of the voting system?

If you think we don’t have the technology to do this you need to think again, this isn’t paranoid it’s just the way it is. The actual scary side of this is it costs lots of money to run this level of service even in the cloud, and the kid of poeple who can afford to do this are the very people you don’t want manipulating elections for their own gains.

They can serve me all the targeted ads they like, ******* etc just filters them all out….

Your life isn’t lived in isolation. This thread isn’t really about successful marketing of products and services, or how you can opt out of that, it is about changing our society and politics, using modern tools, while avoiding transparency.

kelvin wrote:

[ of course, posting on this forum from Ghostery browser is close to impossible – sigh ]

I’m tempted to suggest that’s deliberate (given policy and rules on freeloading – many of the posts on this thread theoretically break the forum rules), but Hanlon’s Razor!

Dezb

But what is being said is that <em class=”bbcode-em”>everyone should #deletefacebook, because <em class=”bbcode-em”>everyone is being tracked (even when they’re not using Facebook) and <em class=”bbcode-em”>everyone’s data can be used … I dunno, against them? To influence them?

It’s just not true.

Dez, you’re obviously more intelligent than the majority of Facebook users and you’re obviously impervious to any form of marketing, trickery or influence but it’s a platform used by anything from 1.4 – 2.2 billion people, many of who use it as their primary source of news.

Imagine you are a young black male in a state that has been identified as a swing state prior to the US election. Because of your ethnicity and zip code you’ve been determined to be unlikely to vote Trump, but there’s a chance you’ll vote Clinton. Facebook targets you (based on age, ethnicity and location) with material tailored to you, designed to undermine your confidence in Clinton and dissuade you from voting. You don’t know who is targeting you or why. The website / rabbit hole you are going down could simply be about men’s issues, sport, black culture, whatever, but the subtext is to assure you voting is pointless. Or it could just be complete and utter rampant lies and fabrication but we’ll never know because Facebook isn’t telling.

Contrast the effectiveness of that delivery method with Donald Trump himself addressing young black men and telling them not to vote. Would they be likely to obey Trump if he asked them not to vote for Clinton? Would they smell a rat if Vladimir Putin gave a press conference addressed to young black men in that specific state telling them not to vote for Clinton?

This isn’t “so much paranoia” as you put it, this is what actually happened. The man with his finger on the nuclear button may well be where he is because of targeted Facebook ads, paid for in rubles.

It’s astonishing how many people can’t/won’t/don’t see beyond the end of their own nose. At the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law, I’ll quote the führer: “What luck for rulers that men do not think.”

As I said, a group of scruffy surfers who message each other isn’t going to get any Political targeted messages or ads I’m afraid.. It certainly hasn’t to date and I doubt I ever will be targeted.

That’s the whole point of this kind of algorithm-based profiling – it works out who not to bother targeting with stuff as well as who to actually target.

martinhutch

As I said, a group of scruffy surfers who message each other isn’t going to get any Political targeted messages or ads I’m afraid.. It certainly hasn’t to date and I doubt I ever will be targeted.

That’s the whole point of this kind of algorithm-based profiling – it works out who not to bother targeting with stuff as well as who to actually target.

Or they never know their being targeted. The website or blog they subscribe to about marine pollution actually has a political agenda designed to persuade or dissuade them very subtley.

@Dezb and others in the ‘why should I care’ camp.

It doesn’t matter if you’re impervious to influence, or have a FB account or not, but it certainly matters if a large proportion of the people you interact with on a daily basis can and are influenced and manipulated by such platforms.

Consider how marginal many political “wins” are though…

Ah see, now we’re making the blinkered one (me) think!

So the idea of #deletefacebook isn’t to stop them mining my data, but to make them suffer for their influence in the political world. I’ve been affected by this because those who have been influenced have managed to vote in .. well Trump.

Thing is, will enough people dump Facebook? Too many are dependant on it for their “friendships”, their social “interaction” – even I am reluctant to drop it for the small amount of info I glean, so what about the actual full-on users (those probably more likely to be influenced)? Will they?

Glad I came back to the thread anyway.

[edit – post I was replying to has been removed/moved/edited, or something]

This isn’t about the (public) arguments made in and by campaigns, but stealth opaque ads that avoided all existing rules on funding, accuracy and use of data.