but they’re currently not

But isn’t it harder to build a great bike without great riders? I suspect there is a bit of a vicious circle here where the engineers aren’t getting pushed / challenged / pressured by riders with precise useful feedback on what they need more or less of. Surely product development happens quicker/better/more with success for all sorts of reasons.

But isn’t it harder to build a great bike without great riders? I suspect there is a bit of a vicious circle here where the engineers aren’t getting pushed / challenged / pressured by riders with precise useful feedback on what they need more or less of. Surely product development happens quicker/better/more with success for all sorts of reasons.

Yeah i can get my head around that. It’s also better engineers and crew/pit etc too, along with things like tyres/suspension etc too. I can easily see why Trek would want and would sign him… But i’m still not 100% convinced if he is making the best move for him.

It’s a complicated nexus of rider, bike, product development and confidence.

The Trek is clearly a high-performing bike anyway, judging by Reece’s speed this year and Charlie Harrison’s results in 2019.

They don’t have a recent top overall result to impress the more casual fan, because they weren’t paying for a top overall rider.

If Loris does go to Trek (and I’ll feel a bit silly if he doesn’t now), he’ll boost his confidence as the lead rider, he’ll have some great teammates and have the resources of one of the biggest bike companies in the world behind him.

From what I’ve read Loris wants to be the no.1 rider in whatever team he is in , the syndicate doesn’t work like that so off he goes . Not sure how the current world champion would feel about being a no.2 at Trek though .

When someone goes to a team and starts losing, there are questions about the bike. But unless there is an obvious flaw, all the top bikes are competitive.
Weeksy just claimed the top two bikes are the V10 and the Commencal, which I’d be inclined to agree with. Thats a carbon VPP and an alloy high idler single pivot which couldnt really be more different.
But geometry…. within reason is modifyable with headsets, linkages and dropouts.

My objection to Vergier > Trek is they seem to be an all in one package. Matchy match kits and obviously being part of the great trek bicycle empire comes with bontrager tyres and finishing kit etc.
Loris has a penchant for unique outfits, and has a pile of varied sponsors, which seemed to fit well on the syndicate.

Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement. The new Session will be high pivot and they need a top rider to show what it can do. Enter Loris.

Trek will be spending more on riders next year than they had planned. They were already planning on Loris, and Reece Wilson didn’t have a ride for 2021 until he won World Champs. They couldn’t just let their new world champ go, so signed him again but I’m sure that wasn’t cheap.

I’m interested to see where Jamie Edmondson ends up.

I’ll just add that the current World Cup overall champ is on a relatively low-budget team with a bike that his team mate was modifying using a floating brake arm.

It’s not (all) about the bike.

I’d imagine downhill racing is fairly similar to motorsport in that it pretty much all comes down to money.

I used to work in single make championships. Every team had exactly the same car. In order to take part you needed a minimum of £50,000 per year. In order to win you needed a minimum of £150,000 per year.

Even if there are differences in the performance of the bike I would say those differences would be eclipsed by the differences made with a having a higher budget.

Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement. The new Session will be high pivot and they need a top rider to show what it can do. Enter Loris.

Good point, I was wondering if the rumours about more high-pivot bikes might include Trek. And Loris is sure to have done his due diligence on the bike anyway.

I’m interested to see where Jamie Edmondson ends up.

Might be wrong, but I don’t quite see him at the Syndicate. Angel Suarez just left YT though.

Enter Loris.

Are we just writing-off the World Champ immediately?

Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement.

Apart from a high pivot with idler – which none of the mens winners this year had – what exactly is wrong with the current session? geo and wheelsize seem current, four bar linkage seems to work.

Genuine question from an armchair DH watcher and trail bike rider who has never given a big travel bike a ride in anger.

The syndicate always strikes me as a slightly off team in the beyond the bike there is no common sponsors. It must be more work as a rider to have to manage and deliver multiple contracts for multiple sponsors who may have competing demands  on your time then sign 1 contract with a team and they sort everything else for you

Angel Suarez has been known to go on the odd jolly with the Syndicate…

mashr
Full Member
Enter Loris.

Are we just writing-off the World Champ immediately?

If you bothered to follow the narrative of what I typed, you’d see that I wasn’t writing Reece off at all. Anybody that closely follows gravity mtb racing should know that current form is the best predictor of success – he’s dangerous.

ayjaydoubleyou
Free Member
Are we really discussing the current Session? It’s long in the tooth and very obviously due for a replacement.

Apart from a high pivot with idler – which none of the mens winners this year had – what exactly is wrong with the current session? geo and wheelsize seem current, four bar linkage seems to work.

Genuine question from an armchair DH watcher and trail bike rider who has never given a big travel bike a ride in anger.

It was definitely due a big geometry update at the very least. Circa 460mm reach on an XL. The fact that Reece, who’s of distinctly average height, is on an XL demonstrates that nicely.

It definitely looks like high pivot is the way things are moving. GT Fury is high pivot too and Devinci racers have been racing a high pivot prototype.

On that note, I hope Dakotah Norton gets a ride. He deserves it.

Not sure how the current world champion would feel about being a no.2 at Trek though .

Probably doesn’t have much choice, he’s won a World Champs & that’s it at this stage. He just snuck into the top 20 overall for 2019 and R&R says they have head to heads of 38 events. 31 to Loris, 7 to Reece.

I’d be going with Vergier all day long 🙂

R&R says they have head to heads of 38 events. 31 to Loris, 7 to Reece

How many of them 7 did Vergier finish/DNF ?

what exactly is wrong with the current session?

probably nothing that an interim update wouldn’t solve, but as so often is the case it’s just down to whether ‘a’ rider and ‘a’ bike just gel. I don’t think these things can always be straightforward

I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.

How many of them 7 did Vergier finish/DNF ?

Head to heads only count when there is a finishing time for both participants. Looking at the results, a DNS/DNF is rare for Vergier, trying to remember but he’s had a few crashes in the past and rolled down for a time, or a mechanical, like this year.

I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.

I can kind of agree – must be difficult to make a bike thats an adjustable high performance race bike, an indestructible resort hire bike and a machine that flatters the average punter; with a production run of a few hundred.

I’d expect something like a Maxxis team or a Fox Suspension team in the not too distant future. Or perhaps more non-bike headline sponsors like Dorval.

While I totally agree on Loris being the safer bet, Reece has been a later starter and both were on sensational form this year.

If Reece’s injury hasn’t knocked too much of the wind out of his sails, they’d be competing with each other as much as the rest of the field in 2021.

Has there ever been a stronger field in the men’s? Loic, Greg, Loris, Amaury, Troy, Matt, Danny, Reece – all potential contenders for the overall. And a few more who might find winning form.

Looking at the results, a DNS/DNF is rare for Vergier,

All the top teams are more than willing to wreck a bike or roll down with an injury for an extra minute on TV.

I think DH is currently at a bit of a existential moment, it’s popular, but it also cost a shit ton of money for little profit (no one sells huge amounts of DH rigs) and it’s not an Olympic sport so there little National federation interest. I wouldn’t be surprised if the era of “Big Team” sponsorship is coming to an end.

I wouldn’t argue, aside from the fact people have been saying the same thing for years. Enduro was supposed to DH, before that it was the big non bike brands pulling out because of the credit crunch, before that it was broadcast TV leaving.

The truth is whilst they sell less DH bikes now, they’ve NEVER sold a lot of them and DH’s audience on Redbull has been growing year on year. DH is like what F1 is to Cars and with cycling on the rise again, they will want their brand on the podium.

Reece has only been on a factory bike for 1 full season last year and the world champs race this year. Vergier has been factory supported his whole elite career so not a cut and dried comparison. Looking briefly at R&R the gap has closed with Loris on top, but not by as wide a margin as before he signed with Trek

Lots of people reading into the results of 2020 looking for trends. Remember that 2020 ‘season’ was a damp squib which went off way too late in the year.

Champs was a washout which was painful to watch unless you’re Scottish (fair play to Reece he was killing it all week) and the two double headers were full of riders who already seemed over it and dying for the off-season.

I love seeing new faces on the podium and new winners coming through but I’m aware that 2020 was no substitute for a full season of regular racing. I hope Wilson and Walker can stay up in the mix next year. It’s exciting when a new generation is pushing through but they often can’t go all the way.

sharkattack
Free Member

Champs was a washout which was painful to watch unless you’re Scottish (fair play to Reece he was killing it all week)

I loved it tbh. (and not just because I’m Scottish and I know Reece a bit), I might have preferred a perfect conditions race but I do love a battle with the elements.

nickc
Full Member

right, and the “best performing bike” in the 2020 season is clearly going to be the one under the rider who won the championship, so Danny should be riding…oh…never mind

I’m quite fond of saying that my ancient Trek is the most succesful enduro race bike of all time. It is, it probably always will be… But it’s not because it was the best bike, it was because they put Tracy Moseley on it and she won absolutely everything for years because she’s Tracy Moseley.

It’s never just the bike. It’s not really just the rider either because there’s no bad bikes at the top end. But the thing that messes it up, is that some riders don’t like some bikes. When Gwin went to Specialized there was nothing wrong with the bike, it just didn’t suit him. Likewise with a bunch of Sam Hill’s moves.

I loved it tbh. (and not just because I’m Scottish and I know Reece a bit), I might have preferred a perfect conditions race but I do love a battle with the elements.

I’ve got nothing against the ‘elements’ but we watched a freshly cut, unridden track turn into an impossible bog where riders were pushing their bikes down the hill at a venue with lots of much better all-weather options. It was farcical.

I’m glad Reece won because he was up for it all week and putting in banging runs. I just think if someone completely unknown had won we’d be writing it off and waiting for next year.

As for the current Trek Session, it’s been around a while now hasn’t it? Not that many people review DH bikes anymore but I’ve heard that the BB is too high, the wheelbase is too short and it gets hung up in the rough stuff the way the newest big wheeled rocket ships just don’t. The way those Commencals go absolutely blazing over serious terrain looks amazing.

Commencals usually have some zFrenchy on them, hence le blazeings.
Loris has potential to be up there with Amaury and Loic every round now, hope Amaury is back on it.
Reeces banged noggin was such a shame, really hope it wasnt just because everyone else hated the mud.
Walker has just gone quietly to the very top level, amazing.
Total shame for Vali Holl, hoping the far few too many top female talents are all healthy for a few races before Rach knocks it on the head.

This year was a weird one, brilliant viewing the back to backs when it finally happened but fingers crossed back to normal next year.

Anyone know how Dannys Dads getting on?

Most recently agreeing with things Jacob Rees-Mogg is saying – so situation normal

Seems loris is off to specialised if Instagram is to be believed.

sharkattack
Free Member

I’ve got nothing against the ‘elements’ but we watched a freshly cut, unridden track turn into an impossible bog where riders were pushing their bikes down the hill at a venue with lots of much better all-weather options. It was farcical.

TBF, the people that were pushing, I don’t care much about except as a way of showing just how good the absolute best are. The flipside was, we got to see a load of riding that was basically sorcery. I’ll take that.

TL;DR who’s Danny riding for in 2021?

Cube

Seems loris is off to specialised if Instagram is to be believed.

There seemed to be a bit of a team pile-on after that. Even the Decathlon Team was claiming he was their’s.

Decathlon have a team?!?

yes – they’re racing rebadged SC V10’s with Danny and Loris.

Anyone know how Dannys Dads getting on?

Opening up the bike park with minimal Social Distancing, allowing people to buy food and sit at the cabin with it, oh and planning to serve alcohol on December 20th in blatant flouting of any laws. If you pull them up on it, you get the usual attitude from Hart Snr.

I rode past today and the bike park was heaving, not many masks at all and loads of blokes stood in close groups. Whilst they advertise that there is no uplift running, there clearly is, unless the full minibus of muddy maskless gents is something else…

If you pull them up on it, you get the usual attitude from Hart Snr.

What attitude does he give to the police? Seems more serious than 10 people having a dinner party.

Doesn’t he have form regarding an event marshal?

Surprised he hasn’t had a £10,000 fine for the blatant disregard for current law