Not sure how they can argue a year old 1k bike is worth £500 if it’s been commuted on every day for say 10-20 miles for a year. £100 maybe..

Not sure how they can argue a year old 1k bike is worth £500 if it’s been commuted on every day for say 10-20 miles for a year. £100 maybe..

read your contract carefully.

you have a duty to keep the bike in good condition. after a year of 10-20 miles a day id argue it would be up for a new drive train and cabling to termed “good condition” rather than “functional”

although 500 quid would be stretching it.

Sorry, my mistake, it’s 25% not 50%.

HMRC PDF with “fair market value matrix”: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/457866/cycle-to-work-guidance-update.pdf

I just got a new commuter via Cycle Scheme. The Ts & Cs seem to say now that it is OK to top up the voucher value with your own cash, but it also states that you still don’t own the actual bike until the final transfer.

My company has a £3K limit on the bike to work scheme. Someone was telling me there is a proposal to make in unlimited, but I have not seen this officially anywhere.

Someone was telling me there is a proposal to make in unlimited, but I have not seen this officially anywhere.

My understanding was that it is already unlimited, if the company is a Licenced Credit broker.

Edit: Just found this

[b]There is no limit on the total value of the equipment including the cycle. [/b]It is possible
to loan two cycles to one employee if, for example, that employee needed a cycle at
either end of a train journey between their home and place of work. (However, please
see Section 9.1 where the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has advised that the group
consumer credit licence will cover schemes up to a value of £1,000).

There’s a theory that each bike sale will result in some follow-on business but (a) there’s the “STW” types that avoid LBS where possible (b) those that are just adding another bike to their collection and (c) those that get the bike, put it in the garage and then never ride the thing.

Yeah, and:
(d) those that get the bike, and then get utterly shit service from the LBS, so continue to use internet/other LBSs/be glad they have a well equipped garage.

thegreatgape

*considers googling ‘gape’ for an amusing image…..pauses for thought…..decides not to*

*considers googling ‘gape’ for an amusing image…..pauses for thought…..decides not to*

Don’t. You might get Goatse.

Dork – Moderator

*considers googling ‘gape’ for an amusing image…..pauses for thought…..decides not to*

Don’t. You might get Goatse.[/quote]I’ve still not seen any goats!

Just think of it as £1,000 interest AND TAX free loan.

But it’s not a “Loan” you are getting a voucher to procure an asset belonging to the scheme’s operator (either your employer or a third party C2W administration company) and then leasing it for a year with no guarantee on what happens at the end of that year, you might get the three year lease extension write off wheeze offered, you might be asked to stump up “market value” including VAT…

The savings are pretty minimal, and tend to most benefit those with the least need… The sort of people who complain about being constrained by a £1k limit 🙄

It’s simply become a tax efficient, toy acquisition, scheme for middleclass MAMILs…

I’ve still not seen any goats!

Try upgrading to one of the new 3000 lumen lights.

It’s simply become a tax efficient, toy acquisition, scheme for middleclass MAMILs…

Based on the evidence on a forum populated by MAMILs…..

Looking round the company garage any morning I’d beg to differ, the increase in cycling in the last 3 years is huge and our C2W scheme is a part of that. It’s also got some serious death traps off the road!

But maybe we are in the minority, our scheme is run by our LBS (admittedly it’s Edinburgh Bikes so hardly small but it’s still local enough to see their original store from the office), can be used in conjunction with their sales and discounts and topped up over £1k value. It would be silly not to!

you might be asked to stump up “market value” including VAT…

I doubt this has ever happened.

I just checked my contract and I hire the bike for 12 months for 12 months of payments. The only reference to any final payment is if I leave the company during the twelve months, in which case they can ask me to pay the remaining amount, without tax benefits. There’s no reference to longer hire periods or other termination payments.

I guess different organisations can implement the scheme in different ways?

Brooes that’s correct but then the bike is retained by the company unless you hire it for longer or buy outright.

Brooes that’s correct but then the bike is retained by the company unless you hire it for longer or buy outright.

yes in theory, but they won’t come asking for it as they don’t actually want it back, having already made their money and having no use for the ‘asset’.

our shop loses 10% to cycle scheme and 15% to halfords (many LBS accept Halfords) but we still get customers trying to haggle for discounts or buy sale bikes!

If you want a no fuss transaction with big savings look at 2015 sale bikes and purchase with cash or credit card; I bought my last road bike using my credit card and got £800 off the retail price

there are still many out there as UK bike biz trade was very slow from start summer 2015 through to Christmas and many brands were left with lots of bikes to clear

Giant are currently doing 40% off 2015 models which is a steal if you can find one you like. I’ve seen other brands doing similar discounts..

Or do that three year thing until it’s worthless.

I bought my 456SS in the C2W so didn’t have to wait 3 years for it to become worthless 😀 I got my own back though, as it’s only ever visited my work in the back of the car.

I bought mine a few years ago. Voucher was for £1,000 but On One took 10% off the voucher value and i added £200 to get a bike that cost £1,100. Actually i added a bit more (£30 or so) to get the bike built up before delivery. They didn’t bother their arse though, so that was money wasted. Then i had to buy a new rear disc as mine arrived warped beyond use. I think when i finally owned the bike i’d saved around £100. Hardly a great saving but having the money taken off me at source made it attractive to me at the time.

v8ninety – Member
Brooes that’s correct but then the bike is retained by the company unless you hire it for longer or buy outright.
yes in theory, but they won’t come asking for it as they don’t actually want it back, having already made their money and having no use for the ‘asset’.
POSTED 6 HOURS AGO #

It might be theory and they almost certainly don’t want it back. But this is business finance and it’s not something your company will just brush under the carpet if it comes up due to internal audit or some other reason. If they remember or or required to balance the books you will be required to pay or return the bike. Probably never happen but anyone taking out c2w on a bike needs to understand this. Telling them it’s just theory is not really sensible.

My company of 100 is totally on the ball and I had to inform them how I wanted to proceed at the end of each year, pay off or extend loan (at no cost). I was informed how much payment would be and how much it would be if I terminated contract before the next years lease was up. (I’d be kind of concerned if working for a company where they didn’t have a handle on such basic finance, is that common!?)

People here seem to forget that Revenue & Customs had to come up with the bike value table because employers where giving the bikes to employees at the end of the year hire period (a benefit in kind) tax free.

It’s simply become a tax efficient, toy acquisition, scheme for middleclass MAMILs…

No it’s not, I see loads of ‘not top end’ bikes in our bike shed at work, the vast majority of them bought on C2W. Don’t be fooled into thinking that us lot on here are representative of ‘normal’ people!.

@Nobeerinthefridge

correct. we sell loads of aluminium Defy’s under £1000 to C2W customers who want a good commuting road bike. Some of these customers may have a nice carbon road bike for Sunday best and want the C2W bike for commuting and bad weather riding. For the majority its their first or only road bike.

Got a GT Grade Alloy 105 on C2W from an LBS, yes they have to pay costs but here is something there for them and you pay the full RRP.

However with our scheme there is no extra ‘lease’ costs just write off values which decrease to 0% after about 5 years. And I’ve never heard of anyone getting a knock on the door for their bike back…

Another benefit is the other half doesn’t see £1000 leaving the bank account and moaning at you 😯

I’m pretty sceptical of these schemes, but it might be the Fox Moulder in me taking a paranoid view of it all. 😉

Generally, I think these schemes have grossly inflated the RRP of lower spec bikes that sell for less than ~£500 and reduced how decent a spec we can get for that magical £1000 LOC (albeit you can get higher LOCs if your employer has suitable paperwork).

What happened to the decent singlespeed commuters you could get for £300-400 around 2008, such as the Specialized Tricross Singlecross, with a carbon fork? How the heck is a new Specialized Langster £600?!!

Why can you metaphorically count the number of proper hydraulic disc braked drop bar bikes on one hand that come in under £1k, when instead they try to “big up” the likes of BB7s or Spyres?

Then there was the transfer of ownership charge that was vastly increased by HMRC a few years back, which ate up a lot of the scheme’s potential savings for basic rate tax payers if the price cost more than £500.

The UK governments have taken far too long to positively encourage the use of cycles for all those journeys of less than 5 miles, reducing pollution levels and increasing the fitness of the UK population. They finally announced something to try and tackle this in the past week, when in my opinion these bike purchase schemes should have been helping, knowing they would reap rewards on much less demand on the NHS.

How the heck is a new Specialized Langster £600?!!

well, inflation* for starters…

I bought a Langster in 2009 for £450, in todays money ~ £550-600
The 2006 one was still about £400 if I remember?

A lot of manufacturers have been squeezing models to fit in under the £1k limit for a while, sometimes this means they cut a corner or two to do it, others seem to just sacrifice some of their margin to get more sales meaning you get some amazing bikes @£999

Why can you metaphorically count the number of proper hydraulic disc braked drop bar bikes on one hand that come in under £1k, when instead they try to “big up” the likes of BB7s or Spyres?

I think you’re picking on one single technology there which is unfair, road hydros are still relatively new, and expensive for what they are, especially given that STI drop shifters have always been expensive compared to MTB/flat bar separate units. Give it another couple of years development and you’ll be getting closer to those Altus and Acera level hydros on the road bikes too.

I don’t think C2W is responsible for pushing upt he price of lower end bikes at all, but I do think it’s improved the £500-£1000 bracket loads, certainly a lot more choice there than there ever was, and lot more sensible everyday type bikes than there ever were!

* as a nice side anecdote, I have a lovely 1986 Mercian Audax/Olympic road bike, and after some random browsing on eBay last week I managed to pick up a great condition original 1986 Mercian catalogue and price list to go with it, just a bit of nostalgic fun, but as a demonstration of inflation it’s great. In 1986 my frame would have cost £112 (£2 extra for some braze ons!), and a full bike with Shimano/Suntour group was ~£350. Today that frame, with similar tubing and options would cost you ~£800, and a full bike would be £1500 – £3000 depending on groupset, so there you go a fun little example of how inflation+time clouds your concepts of how much things cost!

Wot amedias says.

Interesting stuff about final payments and extended hire periods because my contract makes no reference to either – or if it does, it’s buried somewhere in obscure small print. My reading of it is that after 12 months the bike is fully mine, and no further payments are required.

I’ve emailed Cyclescheme for confirmation, cos paying an additional final payment makes this rather less attractive… as does the inability to sell the bike if there’s an extended 3-year hire period…

Interesting stuff about final payments and extended hire periods because my contract makes no reference to either

If they made reference to any kind of option to own the bike at the end of the period it would be breaking the terms of the bike for work scheme because it could be classed as a hire purchase scheme.

dibbs+1 they can’t openly mention it, nor can they say you SHOULD extend for the maximum amount. But, frankly, if you want to do any of the other options drop me a line please. I’ll take the bike off you and will give you the cash to pay it. Basically, you’d be a plonker for choosing any other option

Broesss the cyclescheme front page says about ownership on point 4. On the homepage.

https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/get-a-bike/how-it-works

4. Transfer ownership

When the Hire Agreement and salary sacrifice ends, you can keep your Cyclescheme Package by making a final payment for just a small amount.

Don’t want to sound like a know it all but if you look at the Cyclescheme contract you signed, assuming your employer used the standard template, this is all mentioned in section 4 as well.

4.0 Salary Sacrifice and Hire Period
By entering into this Agreement you agree to hire the Equipment from the Employer for a minimum period of «Hire_period» months from the date of the commencement of your salary sacrifice (the “Hire Period”). In return for the Employer agreeing to hire you the Equipment for the Hire Period, you agree to make the payments detailed on the front of this Agreement on a Salary Sacrifice basis.

To be eligible to make the Salary Sacrifice payments detailed on the front page of this Agreement, your salary, after the Salary Sacrifice, must remain above the National Minimum Wage.

If at any point during the Hire Period, your salary falls to a level that would mean if Salary Sacrifice payments were to be made, it would be below the National Minimum Wage, the Employer reserves the right (to the extent it is lawfully entitled to do so) to suspend those payments or to deduct them from your net rather than your gross salary (meaning that you may lose your entitlement to potential tax benefits as a result) until your salary increases sufficiently.

The Salary Sacrifice may affect the level of any personal pension contributions you make or any sick pay or other pay or benefits that you may be entitled to. Please check with the Employer before signing this Agreement if you have any queries in this respect.

At the end of the Hire Period, the owner of the Equipment will contact you to discuss what is to happen next.[u]