Custom Ti road(ish) frame – where from…?

Idle speculation for the moment, but…..

I have an existing commuter frame that has the geometry I want, I’d like this copied in Ti, but with the back end and cable guides of a Pompetamine (possibly changed to have vertical dropouts and an EBB, rather than track-ends, to make tyre changes simpler).

Where could I go to get this made – XACD and Robin Mather spring to mind at the extreme ends of cost/artisan-ship/distance?

Enigma[/url]

I would say Steve Potts as well, but it’s a bit of a wait. Depends on how quickly you want a frame.

Burls.

I realise this is going to be complete thumb in the air stuff, but how much could we be talking? My rough budget-ometer would like to think it’ll be somewhere between £1000 and £2500, depending on who does it/final spec – is likely to be wildly out?

go along to or at least look through the exibitor list from:
Bespoked bristol

ohh and dont discount 953 for ti alternative but with more builders available

For some builders, I’d imagine that you could be looking at over £2500+

I reckon a Moots for example would be around £3k (ish)

Enigma are really helpful and might be worth an e-mail to give you an idea.

Bespoked Bristol is very much on my to-do list next year….. 🙂

I would say Enigma or maybe make it yourself on one of these courses

Self build…… hmmm…. in Ti…. hmmm…. first time….. hmmm…. with my reputation… 😉 Would love to try it, but I think I’ll leave this for the pro’s

Interesting that some of the exhibitors on the Bespoked list will build in Alu as well…….

dont discount 953 for ti alternative but with more builders available

Agreed. Better to go for good steel than cheap ti. A Brian Rourke tig-welded 953 frame is about £1500 and I’d need to have the budget for a really nice US-made ti frame to be persuaded away from one of those.

Is even butted 953 going to give me much of weight saving over boring chromo steel, esp as I (potentially) need some big plates for the track ends which can’t be thinned out (can you even get 953 plate?!?!?). Think the Pompetamine tips the scales at quite a bit north of 2kg, which, by an standards, is a bit of a lump!

You can get track ends for 953 frames. 953 saves a big chunk of weight over cr-mo if you go to the right builder and use the right tubes.

It depends on how stiff you want the frame, but as a guide 953 can be up to a pound lighter than a similar stiffness cr-mo frame, and of a similar weight to a ti frame if that ti frames not a noodly-light one.

Brazing will add weight and only a few builders can TIG 953 – it’s a good indication of builder skill as it’s not easy. Plenty of places in Taiwan can TIG titanium, very few can TIG 953 (I only know one that’s really good and that’s due to their extensive ti experience, and one other that’s getting good)

I had a custom butted ti frame that was 2.75lbs for a 58cm-equivalent compact – too flexy, didn’t like it much. Had another at 3.4lbs that was PG – much nicer all round. I’ve ridden a 953 frame with same basic layout that was around 3.5lbs and it was the nicest of the 3. The 953 was stiff, but had the steel spring and comfort that I’d expect from a whippier cr-mo frame. It was a really nice balance, certainly the nicest road bike I’ve spent high-mileage kind of time on. It’s very hard to put into words or quantify with ‘stiffness-tech’, but good steel like that simply feels more like a coiled spring to me, ti can have the same spring / cpomfort / flex to it but it’s like a rubber-coated, kind of muted, slower rebound spring (??) – it feels softer or something like that.. High quality steel and high pressure road tyres are a lovely combo imo.

So Ti’s nice, but top-end steel can be just as good yet it’s rare since most of us go to ti at those prices. If I was pushed on this, for a custom road bike I think I’d go for UK made 953 over a US-sourced Ti bike, for VFM as well as UK-made reasons. The bike that I most wanted to ride home from last year’s Bristol Bespoke show was the Rourke 953.

I kind of agree with you jameso – I have a plain-gauge Ti frame as my all-day-get-the-miles-in-occasional-race bike and for that purpose it is smooth as a smooth thing coated in grease. I agree, it is too noodly to push hard as a true race bike (I’ve done a few crits on it, and it’s limits become very clear very quickly!!)….. but if I could replicate that feel on a commuter then I would be more than happy. The Pomp feels quite harsh charging along broken back lanes and cycle paths, esp at 7am in the dark when I could do with something that will almost get me to work on autopilot!

I plan to keep my Pompetamine/Alfine bike as my long term winter bike and have chased the weight down as far as I can in all the areas I am prepared to compromise (track rims….. shod with Marathon Plus tyres – you get the idea) and the frame is now the next best place to go to lose the best part of 2lb out of the build, with the potential to tweak the geometry a little at the same time to something that will fit me better. Given the tyres will be Marathon+, or equivalent, the overall ride is always going to be more cart-horse than Arabian stallion, so I’ll happily take the weight benefit of Ti over out-and-out performance from the frame.

I take your point that a steel build will open up more options, but I don’t see the need to go over-the-top on a Ti build given it’ll be covered in sh!te for most of it’s life 😉

Ti’s certainly more weather and neglect-proof. I couldn’t treat a nice steel road bike the way I do my ti MTB. Ti frames wear mud and scrapes like a commando would, it just makes them look a bit harder.

Ti’s certainly more weather and neglect-proof…..Ti frames wear mud and scrapes like a commando would, it just makes them look a bit harder.

Now you’re getting the idea! 😉

I think Burls are about the cheapest for a custom Ti frame, unless you go direct to China. Burls frames are Russian made & I was impressed with them (and the Burls chaps) at Bespoked last year.

Burls

simples

Thanks all. Gonna seriously looking into the Burls route. Looks like I can get what I want at a reasonable/appropriate price.

Helpful as always…. 🙂

Robin Mather will only make you a steel bike. Burls are well capable but you could also consider Lynskey who are certainly up to the job. They made my Ti frame with custom dropouts and EBB last year. And yes £2500 is the right ball park when you start ordering custom parts like these:
http://www.zen202900.zen.co.uk/bike/pics/IMG_2168.JPG
(I’d upload the pic but it’s quite large)

Robin Mather builds in TI these days though no ?

Designed round the corner, built elsewhere…think they do a custom service.
http://www.qoroz.co.uk/

IS Robin Mather building? I thought he was haveing a rest….

I’m pretty sure Robin Mather only builds steel bikes. I used to live near him and went to visit when I was looking for a custom bike, despite what it said on his website, he’s still building, albeit very slowly, and I got the impression he picks and chooses which bikes he’d like to make. He’s obviously in the lucky position of not having to advertise for work.

Edit. I see there’s a Ti bike on his website so he obviously started making Ti frames too. I stand corrected.