I really don’t foresee a situation where a Dutch woman, married to an English man, with English children, who has lived in England for decades will ever face deportation

You may not foresee it, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t going to happen, either to her, or to people in less favourable circumstances. Many EU countries already have quite strict rules about “family reunification” and the papers in, for example, Denmark have lots of stories about non-EU spouses unable to live with their husband or wife in Denmark. These things happen You don’t know about them because you haven’t been exposed to that situation.

You don’t know about them because you haven’t been exposed to that situation.

How do you know?

How do you know?

If you had been exposed to the situation, then you’d know. Simples.

I’ve spent a lot of time studying immigration systems, both at home and abroad. I work with a lot of immigrants, both from the EU and further afield.
In my spare time I help out refugees, both in a practical and advisory capacity.
I’ve had first hand experience of helping people negotiate our ridiculous visa system. Yes, it’s a worrying time to be an EU citizen in the UK right now, but we’re talking about a system which couldn’t deport an extremist cleric for years. I sincerely doubt that a woman with her whole family resident here is in any danger. After all, were leaving the EU, not repealing the HRA. At least not yet…

@fin25 – respect for that (seriously, not sarcastically). I think you’re right that such a person will not be deported. What is more likely is that someone who has not been here so long, does not have a secure job, will face a lot of difficulties in keeping a normal stable family life than they experienced before, all for nothing.

What is more likely is that someone who has not been here so long, does not have a secure job, will face a lot of difficulties in keeping a normal stable family life than they experienced before, all for nothing.

I’m afraid you might be right there.

“Danger of deportation” isn’t really the point. What if she loses access to healthcare, can’t travel as required by her job (let alone holidays or visiting relatives), can’t work legally or even rent somewhere to live? None of these require a govt department to act efficiently, they just require her (and others in a range of roughly similar situations) to fall on the wrong side of some arbitrary and vindictive rule change.

<scratches “basic comprehension” off dannyh’s list>

Why? That was DrJ’s post, not mine.

10/10 for stupid fail whilst trying to be a smartarse awarded to sbob.

Yes, it’s a worrying time to be an EU citizen in the UK right now,

Its also a worrying time to be a UK citizen in the EU. I see no reason to guarantee automatic residency to EU nationals without a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens in the EU. Hopefully this will be sorted out in due course but I don’t see the alternative of filling in a form and sending in a valid passport to be too onerous a task.

Also in the same guardian article

It said since October, applications could be submitted online and it had also launched an express passport check-in service in 58 local councils around the country, including one 10 miles from Hawkins’s home.

So she couldn’t be bothered to travel 10 miles to get her passport verified but could be bothered to contact the Guardian.

but I don’t see the alternative of filling in a form and sending in a valid passport to be too onerous a task.

The onerousness of the task is a minor issue – the major issue is the criteria for eligibility of the applicant and the outcome of the procedure.

Also in the same guardian article

“It said since October, applications could be submitted online and it had also launched an express passport check-in service in 58 local councils around the country, including one 10 miles from Hawkins’s home.”

So she couldn’t be bothered to travel 10 miles to get her passport verified but could be bothered to contact the Guardian.

Also in the same Guardian article, it says she applied 4 months before October, so that option was not available to her.

As far as I can see she failed eligibility as she did not provide the required documentation and did not have her documentation validated as required.

My wife, also not from the UK, has not worked for 12 years, as our son is special needs. She volunteers at the CAB as an advisor and we have been told that as she has not contributed National Insurance then she is not eligible for citizenship.

So, to all those Brexit voters: thanks, thanks a bunch.

binners – Member
While we’re on words…. can I propose that anyone using the term ‘snowflake’, as it now seems to be the default term of abuse to dismiss the opinions of anyone to the left of Nick Griffin, be taken from this place to a book club in Islington where they be force-fed organic quinoa and fairtrade yoghurt until they explode?

I’ve always taken it to refer to those fragile individuals who faint away at the first sign of anything that might offend their delicate sensibilities.

fragile individuals who faint away at the first sign of anything that might offend their delicate sensibilities.

But this is just a completely subjective caricature, used as a childish rebuttal by those who think that bigotry should go unchallenged.

It’s now been adopted by the Daily Mail and it’s odious readership to label anyone who doesn’t agree with Nigel that Brexit is the best thing EVER, that we should deport all bloody foreigners and reinstate hanging immediately, but who doesn’t hold a position that would elevate them to the status of Enemies of the People.

Basically, ownership of a social conscience/not being an utter **** = snowflake

But this is just a completely subjective caricature, used as a childish rebuttal by those who think that bigotry should go unchallenged.

And ironically it’s most likely to be used by people who think the BBC sacking Jeremy Clarkson was an assault on their way of life.

😀

Perhaps the snowflake metaphor is quite apt. After all, each one is unique, incredibly transient and vulnerable on its own, yet capable of devastating force when combined with millions of its ilk…….

I think I’ll go found a cult.

Will there be free sneakers?

No free sneakers I’m afraid.

I’m wondering when sbob will be back to this thread to explain how the thriving and mass-employment generating formula one industry is going to insulate us from the effects of last June’s reversion to insular pettiness. I can’t wait, I don’t like my current career all that much, so I’m looking forward to getting one of the millions of Formula One jobs that are going to be created.

I played a bit of golf when I was younger. I eagled a couple of holes once. Must mean that I can go round any course in 36 under par by sbob’s reasoning. How I am not now a forty time Major winner is a mystery to me.

Or is the premise based on unrepresentative data, and therefore, erm, bullshit?

Also, “artisan negativity” 😆 where on earth did that little pseudo-witty gobbit originate? Not original, surely.

Basically, ownership of a social conscience/not being an utter **** = snowflake

However, as we see from the thread title change, certain words are often offensive to those who, unfortunately, suffer from medical conditions whose names have become used as common pejoratives. So, isn’t it a good thing that alternative pejorative terms have come into use just to describe a certain subset of vociferous quasi-political activist, all too often those trying to prove a point from the outset, without offending the disabled?

It’s enough to make you weep with pride over the ever evolving English language that we gave to the world.

Well, my grammar and spelling were worse than usual in the last post – blame my smart phone. 😀

Apologies for the use of the word “cretin” – if it actually offended someone.

My wife is Danish and has lived in the UK for nearly 20 years and yet she is still scared of not being able to stay. Stories like this and their dramatic and somewhat misleading headlines don’t help her unease.

Yep, as a UK immigrant, living in an EU country, married to another EU immigrant, I can relate to the headache of jumping through hoops and chasing paper until my brains bleed.
It is infuriating and even more so when one person (because that’s all it takes to stall any bureaucratic process for months, years, eons…) decides that your application is incorrect despite you having followed the rules to the letter.

The other very obvious point to make is it is the EU who are trying to use right to remain as a negotiating stance. The UK has said upfront and very soon after 23rd June that it was prepared to let all EU citizen remain if EU did the same. EU’s responce was “no discussions till A50. Obnoxious in the extreme.

Something like 3.4m EU citizens in the UK vs 1.3m UK citizens in Europe

My wife, also not from the UK, has not worked for 12 years, as our son is special needs. She volunteers at the CAB as an advisor and we have been told that as she has not contributed National Insurance then she is not eligible for citizenship.

So, to all those Brexit voters: thanks, thanks a bunch.

That’s horrible. Is there no way you can make some NI contributions now to set up future eligibility? I will be supporting my ex through citizenship, since without it there is a risk that my 5 year old daughter would have to move to Poland with her mum. This is a worrying time for us too.

Blimey, I thought there’d be more of us living in Croatia!

EU’s responce was “no discussions till A50. Obnoxious in the extreme.

I believe during the indy ref you applauded this approach as it meant not showing your hand.

My wife, also not from the UK, has not worked for 12 years, as our son is special needs. She volunteers at the CAB as an advisor and we have been told that as she has not contributed National Insurance then she is not eligible for citizenship.

Daft question, but was she not claiming child benefit? My understanding was that receipt of this covered the recipients NI stamps

My wife, also not from the UK, has not worked for 12 years, as our son is special needs. She volunteers at the CAB as an advisor and we have been told that as she has not contributed National Insurance then she is not eligible for citizenship.

Whoever told you this is full of shit.
You don’t need to have contributed a penny in NI to be eligible for UK Citizenship. As long as there is no question of fraudulent or dishonest behaviour, then there should be little problem there. Your wife has been caring for her son, that will be reason enough for the lack of contributions.

The horrible thing about the system is that you will be told a lot of bullshit by a lot of civil servants, mostly in the hope that you will go away and leave them alone. And also that the system is so complex even those employed to administer it don’t really understand it.
I know that some of you are facing some uncertainty about your futures and hearing things like that must be terrifying, but don’t let it put you off, keep banging away at them and they will eventually give in.

I’ve copied this from the citizen’s advice website, sorry if it’s stuff you already know.

Credits for parents and carers

Credits for parents and carers helps parents and carers to satisfy the conditions for long-term benefits, for example, State Pension. This helps you if you are not working because you are bringing up a child or caring for someone.

Credits for parents and carers replaces home responsibilities protection. If you reach state pension age on or after 6 April 2010, any home responsibilities protection you have already received will be changed into credits for parents and carers.

You get credits for parents and carers automatically if you are receiving Child Benefit for a child under 12 or you are getting Carer’s Allowance.

However, if you care for one or more people for 20 hours or more a week but are not getting Carer’s Allowance, you will need to make a claim for the credits.

Sometimes, you may be able to get credits for parents and carers if your partner gets Child Benefit instead of you. In this case, you would need to claim credits for parents and carers, it would not be recorded automatically.

For more information about Carer’s Allowance, see Benefits for people who are sick or disabled.

Fins advice is sound, we’ve been told so much utter BS by civil servants and crap solicitors in the past.

You seem a great guy fin, your friend having issues is lucky to have someone who is so supportive.

dannyh – Member

<scratches “basic comprehension” off dannyh’s list>

Why? That was DrJ’s post, not mine.

Your list was about things that Britain was good at, not things that you personally were good at. Understand the difference? 💡

10/10 for stupid fail whilst trying to be a smartarse awarded to sbob.

If you two are going to get so easily confused answering on behalf of each other then you probably shouldn’t bother. 💡

I’m wondering when sbob will be back to this thread to explain…

…the ridiculous strawman you just erected? Right about now! 🙂

Also, “artisan negativity” where on earth did that little pseudo-witty gobbit originate?

It was a parody of a certain section of this forum. You should also be aware that mugs of consumable negativity don’t actually exist, seeing as we’re struggling with the subtleties, so you’re not in danger from choking.

Now if you’re all done whinging about the country you live in, should you wish for a career in motorsport, do feel free to give me a shout; I still have a few contacts in various areas of the industry. 🙂

Alternatively contemplate the words of my late Great Uncle Zbig; nobody invited you and nobody is forcing you to stay. 😉

MrsQ jumped through the hoops 5 years or so ago, as a non-EU citizen, it took some effort, mainly form filling, and of course a big chunk of cash, but it was easy enough to do.

I fail to see what the issue is here, fill the forms in correctly, have the correct evidence and the appropriate funds, and submit the documents.

That is how changing citizenship, or becoming a citizen works. Or have I missed something from the article.

The only reason there is even an article, is because a middle class, European suddenly has to go through the hoop jumping that the rest of the world has to go through.

It is hardly the same situation though is it. My partner (German) of 23 years has spent All her working life since gaining a degree at a UK university in the UK. Paid all her taxes and NI in the UK, built up a business with me here and contributed to the local community like everyone else – for half of her life. She has done all this on an equal footing to you or me as an EU citizen on a German passport. We have never married and never had kids and don’t intend to either. Following Brexit we WILL find ourselves in an awkward situation not of our making, and one for which there is, as yet, no set procedure. This is the point of the initial article, not some sort of middle class winge.

Can you imagine the uproar if your EU citizen partners were deported? After all, it would include Farage’s wife too…
Australia was forced to repeal the White Australia Policy in the 1970’s when a few hundred soldiers couldn’t bring their new wives home from Vietnam.
Uncertainty is shit, but can you really forsee mass deportations of EU citizens?
If there are a few million EU citizens in the UK, then they have a few million friends and family here in the UK, who will mostly be able to vote.
I’m not sure this government’s willing to make itself unelectable just to prove a point to Brussels.

http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/roa/eligible.html

Maybe a similar model to Hong Kong?

@welshfarmer – now add into the mix that your gf had come with you when you were on an expat assignment to another EU country so has not been continuously in the UK for all that time despite being the parent of a UK citizen. Thanks, brexshit.

Can you imagine the uproar if your EU citizen partners were deported? After all, it would include Farage’s wife too…

I’m sure the rules would be carefully drawn to avoid inconveniencing Sir Nigel. One upside would be if Gisela Stuart were to be deported.

Maybe a similar model to Hong Kong?

HK is an example of a reasonably easy system speaking as an immigrant under a spouse visa (my wife is from HK) and able to work under this etc and will soon be on my 7 year of residence and will then gain Permanent Residence as a result.

Sadly its too simple and effective for the UK government to use this as an example.

Your list was about things that Britain was good at, not things that you personally were good at. Understand the difference?

I can see how you were clumsily trying to score points off of two of us at the same time now – congrats.

So, the plan for the country is F1 engineering and a ‘Britain Can Make It’ attitude, then?

I’ll have some of what you’ve been sniffing, please – cricket pad whitener is it?

dannyh – Member

I can see how you were clumsily trying to score points off of two of us at the same time now – congrats.

Actually it was just one at a time – thanks.

So, the plan for the country is F1 engineering and a ‘Britain Can Make It’ attitude, then?

I’ll have some of what you’ve been sniffing, please – cricket pad whitener is it?

Stop erecting straw men.

You couldn’t, by your own admission, think of anything positive that Britain was a “World leader in”.

So I gave you an example.

Is that really so hard to comprehend?
🙂