When a foreign company opens here, we should use their language to make ourselves understood? Marketing men 1 England 0.

Isn’t that a bit like everyone having to speak English in the Costas?

@mol

the whole coffee shop lexicon and image is constructed by marketing execs. That’s why they don’t have a simple S/M/L cup. That’s why they ask if it’s “to go”. That’s why they want the places to look like Central Perk.

It’s a deliberate construction whether you see it or not.

It’s a deliberate construction whether you see it or not.

Of course it is, and I do see it thanks.

But I do not see it as a competition against England.

@mol – your taking the post too literally. I mean the marketing men got their way.
This probably sums it up better than me..

http://www.fwdmarketing.co.uk/blog/tag/venti/

The marketing men always get their way, it’s their job 🙂

If you don’t like it, don’t shop there – however they are always rammed so that should tell you something.

Nice link btw, but lolled at this:

Prof Rosenthal, being an English professor and therefore aware that such a clarification was unnecessary – plain is, after all, plain – declined to do so and, after some heated words, was shown the door

What a tool!

By the way, almost every espresso vendor uses a very similar terminology for drinks. Cappucino, espresso, latte, macchiato etc etc.

Ever asked for ‘fries’ at a fast food restaurant? How about ordering a fajita or burrito in a Tex-Mex restaurant instead of a wrap? Pasta al Arrabiata instead of tomato chili? Where d’you draw the line?

Just a couple of points:

In my original post, the two examples I used were chosen precisely because they are NOT in common usage in the UK.
I’ve never heard anyone use ‘protest’ or ‘through’ in the manner described, so why should the BBC promote these changes when there is no precedent amongst the general population to do so?
Another example is ‘firefight’, which also seems to have been adopted by the BBC. None of the people in the armed services I know use this word, it seems to be media driven.

I have nothing against the USA, in fact I like the place.
My comments about it being a ‘despicable country’ should be taken in the context of the post – I don’t really believe that people saying ‘swap out’ should actually be shot either 🙂 .
However, ‘can I get..?’ introduces an unnecessary ambiguity – if a guest in my house asks if they can ‘get’ a cup of tea, they will be told to help themselves and pointed in the direction of the kitchen.

Using ‘to go’ in Starbucks is just ridiculous – in the vast majority of cases the people working there are not American.
I’m sure they have used ‘to take away’ for the majority of their lives, so just because they now work for an American owned company does not mean that they have suddenly forgot how to speak their native tongue.
If you rented a Chevrolet outside America would you suddenly start referring to the boot as the trunk? Do you call the taps in a UK Holiday Inn faucets?
And whilst were on the subject, precisely where do you want your coffee TO go?

As I said in the OP, I am perfectly aware that language evolves.
I’ve read the excellent ‘Mother Tongue’ (a very good book, as others have said) and am fully aware that American English has naturally evolved in a different way than the language we use in the UK.
However, I AM a grumpy old git and reserve the right to moan about change – it’s what we do best.

And I usually read the Independent, not the Guardian 😀

When a foreign company opens here, we should use their language to make ourselves understood?

Ever ordered a Big Mac? Or do you go “one of those big beefburger things you do with everything on it?”

I order an Americano, or a Caramel Macchiato, or whatever, because that’s what it’s called. Otherwise, you risk being misunderstood, and everyone else thinks you’re an arse. I’ll be halfway down the motorway with my frapaccino whilst you’re still stood at the counter bellowing “chocolate milkshake” in an increasingly loud voice and randomly bemoaning why no-one else talks properly any more.

Of course it’s marketing. It’s been going on for years and it gets my back up too. But you make a choice. If it bothers you that much then don’t visit these places, vote with your feet. You can’t bring it down from within by kicking off when you can’t order a “small” drink at the multiplex because they only offer medium, large and extra large. Once you’ve stepped through the door it’s too late, they’ve won.

Using ‘to go’ in Starbucks is just ridiculous – in the vast majority of cases the people working there are not American.

This may be true, but they’re trained by an American company. They understand it, I understand it, it’s efficient communication. Isn’t the raison d’etre of communication to be understood?

And whilst were on the subject, precisely where do you want your coffee TO go?

It’s to go with me when I go. Clearly.

Using ‘to go’ in Starbucks is just ridiculous – in the vast majority of cases the people working there are not American

Lots of Starbuckses use ‘take away’, round by me anyway.

However, I AM a grumpy old git and reserve the right to moan about change – it’s what we do best.

Quite right.

As an aside – have you ever used a slang word from a part of the UK other than where you are from?

So anyone trained by an American company should immediately start using American English when dealing with the public?

And yes, I do use slang, don’t we all?

However, the American English promoted by the BBC is not slang.
They are directly replacing widely used standard English phrases where no precedent or requirement to do so exists.

I order an Americano, or a Caramel Macchiato, or whatever, because that’s what it’s called. Otherwise, you risk being misunderstood

That reminds me of my younger days travelling in Colombia. I didn’t know a lot of Spanish, but I could generally make myself understood. After several days (weeks?) of eating chicken and rice I confess I craved junk food. When I got to the city I found a McDonalds. The milkshake was on the menu as a McShake, just like here, but for the life of me I could not find how to pronounce it to make myself understood. It certainly wasn’t pronounced as we do in the UK or the US, and adding a Spanish accent to it didn’t help either. I just ordered a Coke in the end. To this day I still don’t know how Colombians pronounce McShake. 😆

By the way, almost every espresso vendor uses a very similar terminology for drinks. Cappucino, espresso, latte, macchiato etc etc.

Ever asked for ‘fries’ at a fast food restaurant? How about ordering a fajita or burrito in a Tex-Mex restaurant instead of a wrap? Pasta al Arrabiata instead of tomato chili? Where d’you draw the line?

er…they’re nouns? There is a(n obvious) difference.

That’s not what I said. If they’re trained by an American company then they should understand American English. And they do.

It’s hardly a great leap, anyway; it’s not like I’m speaking Klingon at them, I’m using phrasing that’s slightly different. Ooh.

but for the life of me I could not find how to pronounce it to make myself understood.

Oddly, I’ve had this in the US, trying to order spaghetti with “tomato” sauce at an Italian-themed fast food place(*). Tomato… to-ma-to… er, to-may-toe? Toh-maid-doe? That bloody red stuff, god damn it!

(* – Fazoli’s, incidentally. Fantastic chain, you should go.)

btw – I do go in starbucks (for previously stated reasons) and ask for a large tea.
And never have a problem getting what I want.

I’m not calling for a starbucks boycot or saying how people should talk. I’m saying your use of that language is in compliance with starbucks marketing dept. I don’t like to comply with marketing people because they are inherently evil, and it irks me when other people do.

Don Simon – I often gave the students a choice to believe 300billion Americans were correct or the language spoken by 62million people in Britain.

Just as well it was English not Maths you taught…

Cougar – The can-I-get thing is all over the UK. I travel all over the country with work and don’t see this as specific to any region. Heard as much darn sarf as oop norf.

So if it is UK wide then is it just down south that people are getting on their high horse about it because I don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention it in the civilised north for at least ten years…

DrJ / TJ – “Can I get” Nope – but you may have……….

but actually I’m somewhat more comfortable with “offering to get it” and them doing it for me than “demanding” that they run around after me!

However if it is upsetting people so much I may increase my usage!

@RustySpanner

Agree with the sentiment, but firefight has being used in the british infrantry for a long time. Definitely for 20 or more years based on training manuals.

So if it is UK wide then is it just down south that people are getting on their high horse about it because I don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention it in the civilised north for at least ten years…

Sorry have the poles been switched without me noticing? Or am I southerner now?
I know quite a few people who dislike it.

gwj72 – Member

@RustySpanner

Agree with the sentiment, but firefight has being used in the british infrantry for a long time. Definitely for 20 or more years based on training manuals.

Thanks for the clarification.

Most of the people I know who are ex services are now in their late 40’s or older.

Still makes me think of a group of squaddies with hoses though.

I do go in starbucks (for previously stated reasons) and ask for a large tea.

Rock & roll.

I’m not … saying how people should talk. I’m saying your use of that language is in compliance with starbucks marketing dept. I don’t like to comply with marketing people

You’re not saying how people should talk, you’re just saying that you don’t like the way I talk?

I don’t think I’ve heard anyone mention it in the civilised north for at least ten years…

I don’t recall ever hearing it up here, TBH.

You’re not saying how people should talk, you’re just saying that you don’t like the way I talk?

Yes. And at last we have come full circle! You might want to recap on what the thread is about (in summary – some people not liking how other people talk).

Fair enough. I think we can agree to differ there.

y’all need to chillax and have some brewskies; the heat is getting to y’all.

Fazoli’s, incidentally. Fantastic chain, you should go

Yeah but it’s not as good since they cut down on the free breadsticks…

Re tomayto – Mrs Grips struggle to be understood saying tomayto, bizarrely enough. It’s even worse when talking to non-native Brits. I struggle to understand how someone could be working in a pizza place and not understand someone asking for tomayto, but there you go.

I don’t like to comply with marketing people because they are inherently evil

Lol. You are in there buying stuff aren’t? Pwned 🙂

y’all need to chillax and have some brewskies; the heat is getting to y’all

Ah.. but you’re allowed to talk like that cos you’re ‘one of them’. You should try talking like a Brit to annoy gwj72

Yeah but it’s not as good since they cut down on the free breadsticks…

They’ve done what? Swines.

Mrs Grips etc

Where’s she from?

Wisconsin, You Ess Ay.

IME, the Brits do a far better job of butchering the language than the Americans.

Yeah, but we’re allowed to. (-:

Um…
Dear fellow gentlefolk, please find your way down to the pub where you can have a few pints, as the sun has actually come out today…
How’s that?

no sun here 🙁

Its dry and warm though so think I’ll go tinker with an engine..

Well done, you’ve mastered patronisation and condescension, and are showing promising signs of actual sarcasm. You’re well on your way to becoming an honorary Englishwoman.

(-:

Wisconsin, You Ess Ay.

Cool. Just wondering with you mentioning Fazoli’s as their catchment area isn’t wholly national AFAIK. I never quite made it that far North, sadly.

So anyone trained by an American company should immediately start using American English when dealing with the public?

Not sure, but I’m fairly sure I’ve been to other foreign restaurants where the menu is in French / Spanish / Italian. I suspect I’d probably be quite put off if lasagne was referred to as ‘mince and pasta bake with cheese sauce’.

Lol. You are in there buying stuff aren’t? Pwned

Using free wifi 😉

And if all americans could talk like brits that would be smashing, thanks 😀

I think it’d be tedious and dull if we were all the same. Why is being different a bad thing? It should be celebrated.