Cotic Jeht?

I’ve been seeing a few ads recently for reduced Cotic Jehts. I’ve currently got a Scott Spark 970, which , generally, does everything I want, but, the Tuesday night rides at Ae are a bit more demanding, so a XC bike is not the best thing, but will suffice.
Anyway, with the 0% apr, I can afford to get the cotic, and pay it off over a year/maybe two. General searching doesnt really have a bad word for it, some say a bit overweight , though its about the same as my current Scott. Geometry is a bit more stretched, and I really do like the thin 853 tubes compared to the bulbous Scotts ally.
The reduced ones appear to be a Taiwan Jeht, as the colour is a horrible brown, thats the only thing I dont like, the colour. Any differences between UK and Taiwan frames? Obviously price and colour, but the spec seems to be the same, yet the Taiwans are cheaper.
As for its ride, I presume it will be a better bike for going down steep hill sides, going up, what, about the same?
How about frame bearings, they look quite exposed, is that a problem?
And any other thoughts on the Jeht?
Thanks.

I’m a bit of a self-confessed Cotic fanboi, so I ought to leave the thread to maybe more balanced opinions.

Having said that, you’ll not regret getting a Cotic. You’ve already identified the only possible downsides (weight – but actually not that heavy compared to similar aluminium or even carbon bikes – and a colour you don’t like but you can always lift that over time with colour accent components).

I’ve had both Far East and UK built Cotics and there’s very little to choose between them IMO. AFAICS build quality is none of the reasons Cotic moved production of some frames.

Not had a Jeht (Rocket/RocketMAX owner) but comparable ride characteristics I think. Very assured on descents, especially the steeps. Not sprightly climbers out of the saddle if you like honking uphill but pretty good sit and winchers if you are good at spinning circles.

Bearings fine. My RocketMAX has done three UK years in all conditions and only now showing noticeable play in the main bearing (probably need to replace them all before I go to Scotland in a few weeks).

2024 04 21 Nice work Cousin 02 by Rob P[/url], on Flickr

I absolutely love mine, in terms of weight it’s the same as my friends equivalent spec Santa Cruz Hightower CC. There will be far more weight difference across groupsets/brakes/wheel and tyre choices in reality than frameset weight in most similar travel bikes. It climbs well, plenty of traction on steep or techy climbs and it floats up and over roots etc in a really nice way to keep momentum up. I never feel the need to lock out the shock except on a tarmac hill because it’s pretty stable under seated pedalling, it only gets a little squashy sometimes if you’re standing and really stamping on the pedals.

Going downhill it’s really helped me progress my riding as it’s so capable I can think more about lines and technique rather than just getting down in one piece!

In terms of quality I don’t think there’s any difference from Taiwan to UK built, they are built with the same tube spec. as far as I could tell from the info, mine is a Taiwan in the dark blue. Frame bearings all have caps etc. on them so I’ve not had any issues, and there are only a couple anyway.

Overall I think it’s great personally in case you can’t tell! And they look bleddy great.

Jeht by James Fabian[/url], on Flickr

I think the Taiwan Jeht’s are based off the slightly different design so come in sizes S-XL rather than the UK made ones which are C1-5 with slightly smaller gaps between sizes

That’s true actually. I think maybe these special offer ones were a delayed batch of the older sizing structure from before it moved to UK built?

My RocketMAX has done three UK years in all conditions and only now showing noticeable play in the main bearing (probably need to replace them all before I go to Scotland in a few weeks).

Just a heads up… try and replace those bearings now not later. Should really be done before they get to the noticeable play stage. Cheers.

How about frame bearings, they look quite exposed, is that a problem?

Gen 2 Flare Max owner.  I’ve replaced mine once in 6 years – current set are over 3 years old and no play when I took the shock off to check earlier this year.

It’s done +5,000 miles and over a million feet of elevation – vast majority in the Tweed Valley, so rough & wet.

Weight-wise, added barely a kilo compared to the Spesh Camber Evo it replaced, but is seriously longer and tougher plus actually climbs better.

I thought the “horrible brown” on the Taiwan Jeht was a really nice root beery metallic colour. It’s brilliant value, barely more than the frame only price for a full bike.

Looks a great bike, I’ve had to have a word with myself a couple of times after developing a want for the Crimson one

So I test road a Jeht about a year ago. I live local to Cotic so the route we went on was well known to me.

I really wanted to like it, but I just didn’t get in with it. I’m a lanky git and the XL or whatever they’re calling it now should have been the perfect size.

The only thing I can put it down to is the tyres it was on, Hutchinson I think.

That being said I’m definitely an outlier, everyone seems to love them, but if possible I’d recommend a test ride.

As a point of comparison I hired a Bird Aether at Lagan a couple of years ago and it was great. And this was on unfamiliar trails.

I’m not saying that Cotic are crap and Bird are great, just that everyone is different.

Lovely people when I met them, which always helps.

“Just a heads up… try and replace those bearings now not later. Should really be done before they get to the noticeable play stage. Cheers.”

Absolutely. Habitual procrastination, ‘that’ll be OK for just one more ride’ syndrome, and building a new bike are not a good combination…

A good thing is that they can configure their bikes to however you want – if you don’t want the tyres as you’ve already got a set of favourites, drop them a message and they’ll sell you the bike without tyres – with the price adjusted.

They are really helpful and friendly to deal with.

If I was in the market for a full suss I’d be buying the Jeht – my Soul does most (99%) of what I need so not had to hit the button for one yet

Another positive response to Cotic as a brand, they’re super nice folk to deal with. (As are Bird, also mentioned). Own both and would happily recommend both.

From the numbers and reviews I’ve seen a Jeht will be great around Ae.

It’s definitely very good value but I’d budget either for the upgraded fork to the Lyrik (£349) or upgraded damper in the Revelation if you go for the Taiwan build Jeht. I’d be happy with everything else on the spec, Deore is a very solid group set IMO.

Deore 12 speed is great. Especially so if you bunged one of the XTR shifters currently cheap at Merlin on it…

i spent a long time next to that Jeht on the Cotic stand at Tweedlove, in the flesh that colour is stunning with a metallic fleck in the sunshine.

Rob

Don’t have a Jeht but do ride Flaremax and love it. Great climbing or descending, don’t find the weight an issue but swapping to lighter tyres with less rolling resistance makes it feel a lot livelier. Bought it because at the time I wanted an all round mountain bike. Riding more steep and technical trails (Golfie) since then and it handles those well. That said, my next bike will be a Jeht as I’d like a bit more travel for that type of riding and don’t think it will be significantly slower on the climbs.

I’ve just built up a UK Jeht within the last few weeks. Bought the frame to replace my 2019 Orbea Rallon frame so transferred everything across.

Have done a few rides on it and so far, really enjoying it. Unfortunately I’m recovering from a wrist fracture so haven’t been able to push it but rides very nicely.

Comes in at 34.6lbs (C2 size) with Fox 36, Cane Creek DB Air IL, Hunt Trailwide and Continental Enduro Kryptotals…a shade lighter than what my carbon Rallon was (although that had a coil shock).

Edit: photo upload doesn’t seem to work for me so Insta pic below

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8aK2JwM95S/?igsh=cTgwbmo3Z3o2b3ox

Trying to post a photo I took this weekend of the colour. Not sure why it’s proving so difficult.

I’m a Jeht owner for the last couple of years. I have the blue colour in the gold level XT build.

It is a beautiful thing, the colour is lovely. It is heavy-ish, 15.something kilos, but it rides uphill absolutely fine. Sitting and spinning up something is no problem at all. It’s a great winch and plummet machine.

It’s definitely made me more confident than my previous (transition scout.) Can happily bomb down stuff I would never have tackled before, very stable on steep stuff. But….. to be clear I am perfectly aware I am the weak point here, I’ve never been entirely happy with suspension set up. It has fox 36 and the ccdbil. I’ve never got it quite right, the fork never feels lively enough and the rear I find can be full of pedal bob and a bit wallowy but then all of sudden will feel rock hard when hitting a big root or something. This will be my failings though, I just think I would be better with a simpler Pike and a less complicated rear shock tbh. On the right trail at the right (high) speed though, it does come together and feel amazing.

I generally ride a mix of trail centre, Lakes, Rivington most frequently. Done Ardrock 2-3 times on it and will be there again in a few weeks. Did the Golfie for the first time a few weeks ago.

Also, I did have a local LBS chasing an horrendous creak for a few weeks a while ago. It sounded horrific. This resulted in a bearing change (some were dry – again my poor maintenance plays a part here rather than the build) but eventually a rear wheel bearing change sorted it out and now it’s lovely and quiet again.

Other things of note, large frame holds a large bottle easily in a side loading cage, the cotic own brand saddle is the comfiest I’ve ever had (YMMV) and the restrap frame bag is a neat touch.

Pic upload doesn’t seem to work like it used to? Not sure if I’m doing that wrong.

No, it’s not having it

Thanks all, I’ve hit the button, and in a fortunate twist, rather than medium in every other make, I’m a small in Cotic sizes, so there was a choice of colour. Sorry, brown isnt for me (memories of growing up in the brown 1970’s!), so went for the dark blue, which is, remakably, £50 cheaper, so that paid for the little triangle frame bag for under the shock. Whats the bottle cage to go for then?
Thanks all.

https://www.merlincycles.com/zefal-wiiz-plastic-2-side-opening-bottle-cage-316831.html?utm_source=PHG&app_clickref=1101lyJzunID&source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=genieshopping

This is what I use. It’s not pretty, but it works well. And it’s £2.

I can fit an 850ml bottle in a large frame, not sure if it’ll be the same for a small.

Enjoy!

I run the Zefal side loading cage too, but if you’re short of space this will fit.

Elite Jet Youth Bottle & CEO Cage – 350ml | Merlin Cycles

I have the Jeht with Pike Ultimates and the CC Kitsuma air shock. It is very capable and able to keep up with my mates on much bigger travel bikes. Came to it from a v1 Hightower and the huge increase in reach took some getting used to. Its playful and lively enough but picking up the front wheel requires a lot more effort. On the hightower i would be lifting the front wheel on larger drops but on the Jeht i just shift my weight back and let the bike do the rest.

I don’t have one but the wife has had one for 3 years and loves it, her ridings come on loads since getting it. She recently changed to a 650b rear wheel which she prefers as she’s only 5’6″. My best riding bud and his other half both have them and really like them. I’m the odd one out when the 4 of us ride together 🙂

I did have a FlareMAX before my current bike and it handled everything I threw at it, Lakes chunk, Tweed Valley steeps, big XC loops etc. I just fancied a change with a bit more travel and the Jeht wasn’t a thing at the time.

She recently changed to a 650b rear wheel 

Did she use an angleset? or just swap the rear wheel. How did she find that affected the front handling?

Jeht owner here too.

Bike rides just fine. Don’t notice it being heavy.

Size small doesn’t have bottle mount inside the frame but does under the down tube – so effectively no bottle for UK riding!

Got my (replacement for stolen one) during / just after COVID so they were VERY busy building and giving out bikes.  This lead to the wrong headset bearing being fitted, gears not shifting (both sorted by Cotic as I am lucky to live within an hour’s drive so took it back the next day) and (as I found out when I checked the linkage due to a knocking noise some time later) the pivots not being greased from the factory.  Not great but I just put it down to inexperienced staff taken on to cope with the rush and lack of pdi for the same reason.

On the bright side the bearings are easy to change following the Cotic videos.

At the price they are punting those frames out for then they are definitely worth considering.

Si

@Blackflag added a Works angleset as well. She hasn’t said much about front handling, just that it goes round tight steep corners better and she now doesn’t get the occasional backside buzz she got before. She prefers it overall.

Also, another vote to say that Cotic are just awesome people, so helpful when you need them.

Not a Jeht, but at 168cm tall mulleted my RocketMAX by throwing in a 27.5 rear wheel without an angleset to try and avoid backside buzzing. Head angle now sits at 61 and a bit degrees unsagged. Minimal actual real world impact on handling as far as my mediocre abilities can tell (my guess is that the slightly sharper handling from the smaller wheel goes some way to counteracting the extra couple degrees of slackness at the front?

I’m in the same boat as you. Jeht seems tick all the boxes for me. I’ve got a new-ish plastic Vitus but never gelled with it. I might be able to sneak the UK Jeht in under our C2W, or the Taiwanese one with the Ultimate shock.

The Taiwanese frame is based on the ‘old’ Jeht design, hence no brace bar across the ST to DT, where as the UK made frame (Gen2) has the brace and some sizing changes. The pricing makes sense to me and thankfully Cotic offer the choice. I’ve got the LLS BFeMax and Cotic where great with communication and the bikes been awesome.

I do worry a little about there being no brace.. I see the RocketMax and FlareMax both got the brace for the update. I assume this was added because of the cracks some had? @Kelvin can you clear that up?

When the new UK RocketMAX was developed, it was for longer travel forks, and the strut was developed to give the strength* to enable that, and the use of coil shocks. Then when the other models were revised when moving them to UK only production, there was no good reason not to use the strut for them as well… hardly anything in it weight wise compared to the two plate braces, and for the 5land peeps the mitering etc to make it all fit for all sizes and all models was just bread and butter work for them. Now, this last extra batch of Taiwan Jehts was made using the same design, material and jigs in the factory over there as before, there were no running changes apart from the colour. Note that after this batch of Taiwan Jehts all the full sus bikes will be UK only, with the design changes, new sizes, and understandably the higher price point.

*please don’t come at me for my terminology armchair engineers

@richardkennerley I run mine with a Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate like the below and it was a really quick fit & forget type setup just with baseline settings/sag etc. and away I went, I think to be honest the next model down with less knobs to twiddle (or mostly ignore in my case) would have been just as good but I picked up a heavily reduced Ultimate so it seemed rude not to!

https://www.tftuned.com/super-deluxe-ultimate-air-rc2t-standard/p4069

Looks like they’re not so cheap currently after the demise of Wiggle/CRC but in my experience it works really well on the bike. But I may just not be super sensitive to these things.

I’m looking at a Jeht or a Raaw Jib. Does anyone have any real world experience of the two. Know they are slightly different bikes.

I had an old/original Jeht.

Im 510 or 511 on a good day so could’ve picked between medium or large. I chose a large.

For all day epics on mixed terrain it was possibly the comfiest riding position I’ve ever had on a bike. However, for woodsy hour thrashes I should’ve bought a medium. The long shot geometry is good but I found it a wrestle over trail clutter like fallen logs, tight hairpins both up & downhill, hopping around etc. I used to get a bad back whilst riding it. That could be more of a commentary on my core strength (or lack thereof), but it remains that for most of my riding I found it a bit big. I haven’t had a bad back in any other bike I’ve owned.

Another thing I struggled with was the rear suspension. I’m 200lbs; I bought it with a CC inline.

The Cotic base tune for this shock is:
1.0 Turn HSC

6 Clicks LSC

1.0 Turn HSR

4 clicks LSR

It bobbed like nobody’s business, yet felt harsh over any trail debris & stones etc.

I ended up with:

1.5 turns HSC (2 coil)

14 clicks LSC

1.5 Turns HSR

10 clicks LSR

After a few chats with Cy (it is great that you can actually chat with designer/owner of the bike & company), I put a coil inline on it, which definitely improved things. However, I was getting a weird sensation deep into the shocks travel; it felt like it was pausing before rebound.

As I’d bought the shock from TF I had a chat with them – they said it was a “thing” when using this shock with the damping wound in.

Anyway to cut a story short I fitted an Ohlins TTX22m. That made the biggest difference, yet I still couldn’t get it to stop feeling harsh on small but high speed hits. If the suspension was already midway into its travel this didn’t happen – it was just the initial hit whilst at sag seemed to reverberate through the whole bike.

In the end I sold it; given I felt it was a bit too big anyway, along with the rear suspension niggling me I was making too many compromises on a bike I really wanted to love (I’ve had many Cotic’s & loved every one of them).

I now have a Raaw Madonna (sorry @Cowman not Jibb) & a Deviate Highlander. The Deviate is arguably the closest in its intended use but the shorter reach of both these bikes just suits me better. The Deviate also feels like it carries its speed much better and has none of the harshness I found on the Jeht. That said, the Jeht felt more “poppy” and like it was skipping over the top of stuff, so if you like a lively engaging ride the Jeht is very good. I’ve had lighter cars than then Raaw so any comparisons are verging on meaningless – that’s just a beast on fast techy enduro style trails & VERY forgiving.

In short, it’s a very good trail bike but makes sure any test ride is done with a critical eye, using your head not your heart.

My Flare Max is a bit ‘bastardised’ to put it mildly.

It’s a Gen 2, so started out with 120mm on the rear (Cane Creek DB Air IL) and a 140mm X-Fusion fork.

A Pike at 140mm went in first, then another one as (somehow) I managed to split the crown.

Next up was a stretch on the rear shock to take out the rear travel to 132mm.

Then a -2 Works Components headset and finally a Lyrik, which while at 150mm, was only 5mm longer Axle-to-Crown.

Utterly brilliant on the steep & techy Tweed Valley trails where I live, and I’ve utter faith in its ability to save me when I do stupid things 🙂

Even though I’ve also a lightweight eBike, I’d buy another Flare Max if this one died etc.

As a follow up, Ive done around 5 hours around Ae on it now. Definitely more planted than the Scott Spark, I did the Omega Man yesterday faster than I’ve done it before, even got some air on one of the tabletops, though it wasnt my intention! The frame is too small to fit a drink bottle, and last night was the first time for ages where Ive actually finished a bottle while i’m out, I held it in my rucksack. I’m looking at siting it on the top tube, but standover height may ruin that. I bought the small frame bag that fits at the bottom of the frame, but, unfortunately that didnt work out well, as the bike clamps for the car need to wrap around that part of the frame.So pump/tube/levers/multitool and bottle need to find a way to be mounted still.
Riding it was quite different, I was missing the corners a lot last weekend, certainly due to the longer wheelbaase and ‘lazy’ geometry compared to my previous race bike. It was better last night, I was conciously trying to lean in a bit more, and only came off the trail once. What did surprise me was the lack of adjustment of the seat post. At 5’6”, I was in the middle of the height range (5’3 to 5’8), but, when extended, the post was around 20mm too high, and couldnt be dropped down anymore due to the small frame size. This was fixed by putting a spacer inside the seat post (easy 3 minute job), however that dropped the drop from 150mm to 130mm, but was hardly noticeable. I’m glad I didnt pay for the 180mm dropper. What is annoying is that the price dropped by another £200 last week. Oh well, I was happy at the price I paid two weeks ago.

The seatpost insertion is a little bit of a niggle for me too, although as I built from a frame/shock I went down the Oneup V2 seatpost which has a shorter insertion depth/less intrusive mechanism on the bottom than most options so I can run the full 150mm drop but the collar is a good 30/40mm between collar and seatpost clamp so I “should” be able to run a 180mm drop otherwise.

It definitely takes a different style to an XC bike to get it turned, but I think that’s true of all modern trail/enduro/insert genre here bikes.

You just have to take the frame bag off when you put the bike up on the bike carrier, that’s what I did when I had a roof mount. Tow ball carrier holds the frame at a different point so the bag can stay on.

The frame is too small to fit a drink bottle, 

See my previous comment about a smaller cage & bottle, but if the limiting factor is your bottle, try one of these:

https://www.merlincycles.com/zefal-sense-pro-50-bottle-500ml-319078.html?utm_source=PHG&source=PHG&utm_medium=Affiliates&utm_campaign=genieshopping

The seatpost insertion is a little bit of a niggle for me too,

I presume the suspension linkage goes through the frame which makes the insertion depth slightly worse than just the bend would otherwise?

I’d struggle to buy anything that doesn’t allow at least a 200mm dropper, as that’s what I’ve got used to.