Anyone else of the mind that a forced change of career could be good for them in the long run? I’ve been in the print trade since I was 15 (52 now) and have done nothing else – and if I’m honest I’m ruddy bored of it.

Often thought about doing something else and been through the ringer over the years in the trade with many highs and lows (inc. bankruptcy 11yrs ago).

I’m a one-man-band operation and can survive for a few months but I just can’t see there being sufficient work there out there when I return to keep it going long term. (I do a lot of work for pubs, restaurants and local events).

We’ve just been told:
“good news – you’ll find out if you got a pay rise today”
“Bad news – everyone in the UK division is having to take a mandatory pay cut – oh and we don’t know how much that is yet, but you’ll be getting an email/letter later today….”

Anyone else of the mind that a forced change of career could be good for them in the long run?

Yes.

I was actually in the process of trying to jump ship just before all of this kicked off. Luckily I had not quite out in my notice. Lucky because I still have money coming in but still hating every second of it and feeling uterly depressed by every lunch time.

We’re now the busiest we’ve been all year.

Between the 200+ phone calls from people struggling to WFH, and the 500 laptops which are being built and deployed over the next few days, I think I might just find time to take a sh*t once a day if I’m lucky.

The benefits of working in IT when the whole country suddenly needs to WFH. At least my job is safe I suppose!

Kuco – yep, been here for a while so plenty of exposure to some of TJ’s pointless posts; sometimes he bites at responses to his posts, other times he doesn’t.
Anyway, if Cougar is to be believed he’s now banned according to post on another thread.

Partially playing devils advocate here but also raising a real point on the self employed front.

Irrelevant of if you have been straight up with tax or a bit close to the wire when you are self-employed you day rate tends to be better than of you are PAYE, this is to cover the fact you have no holiday pay, no pension, no sick pay have some extra costs of running a business but also the risk of not being garenteed work.

These are unprecedented time and I think self employed deserve more than the £92 per week due to this fact but for it to be the same as PAYE removes one of the fundamental differences between PAYE and self employed. That being the price of risk due to there being no requirement to provide work.

Zero hours contracts are different as this extra risk tends not to be baked in to the rate received and if working constantly should also receive the 80% IMO.

yhe mrs is down stairs on a company conference call doesn’t sound good from up here 🙁

The Brick, I kind of get that point but generally people live according to their means. If the purpose of the exercise ist to economically pause, then IMO it’s fair that these people get to maintain their income level at 80%. If anything, aren’t they more vulnerable than PAYE due to no benefits so require that extra help?

There’s a real worry that only those who have a lay-off clause in their contract will qualify for the furlough scheme.

Most people who do not have a job in a manufacturing facility are unlikely to have this clause in their contract.

That will leave the employers in a very difficult place if the law isn’t changed when the scheme goes live.

My wife’s company – a large Civil Engineering company – just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.

Whats my wife’s rights and why wouldn’t they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?

RichPenny
I think more than the £92 but as the income of someone self employed is likely to be higher than their equivalent PAYE worker because of the aforementioned extra payments of no holiday, sick pay, extra costs even ignoring any extra pay baked in to the price for risk, the self employed 80% would be higher than the PAYE 80% (up to the £2.5k per month limit). Hence even ignoring any extra risk pay a lower than 80% number would be required for equivalence.

Moneybox is just starting and covering topic of the S/E.

It seems to be also covering employees..

Well yesterday we contacted our clients and explained that we would have to pull off sites (construction) as many of our site gangs travel together in the works vans, plus the welfare facilities on site do not allow for social distancing

Today once of our clients is saying we’re in breach of contract and will be applying liquidated damages – utter s£$£s

Lawyers will do well out of this as always!

Had a group conference call today. We will be looking at temporary furloughs on a large scale. People who are kept on to work from home will be most likely paid less, although this month’s payroll is finalised and committed now.

It’s a weird one.

Take a big pay cut but watch loads of YouTube as well as really getting into the kids home schooling (I am currently WFH).

Keep my job, which I’m not massively fond of, throughout and be paid less for the same irritations as normal.

But then these really are first world considerations. My wife is patient facing NHS and has effectively just offered herself up to redeploy from a community hospital to the pointy end. She doesn’t have severe asthma, she has mild asthma, though, and struggles when she gets a cold.

Strange times.

Us self employed have higher costs than workers, we have to provide all tools and equipment, all PPE, all stationary, a vehicle, roadtax insurance ,fuel,accountancy computer, and internet access mobiles and lots more, and all legitimate claims against any tax paid for the benefit of the person previously known as TJ .

As for topping up wages of both workers and us selfies, whos going to do all the calculations,where are the qualified and trained staff going to come from and who is going to pay them and whos setting up the systems, and going to be providing the figures.

Try ringing any call centre especially hmrc, and you speak to numerous chatbots or press more numbers than a bingo player, and you might be lucky to get through to a real person who actually knows the answer to what you asked.

While all the time the bills come in, got 5 work related bills at the present time all due end of this month,and no income from work to pay them, and most of our customers are over 70 so possibly going to loose a few of them.

Then for all those furlonged or whatever, whats stopping their company taking the cash then just shutting up shop, uk recession becons on a huge scale.

OK, very long hitch ahead by the looks of it.

Just hitting the 5 week mark today, trip lengths normally 4 weeks only, risk assements to go longer.

We’ve been asked if we’re happy to stay on, potentially another 5 weeks, although efforts are to be made to get crew out and get us home still. Earliest that may happen is mid April, and even then the incoming crew mayhave to do 14 day iso’ in Guyana before joining the ship. So we may have a 10 week hitch under our belt.

Our clients program will have us working with the kit we currently have mobilised making more holes in the seabed, but after the next 5 weeks that comes to an end. Different kit will be needed for the upcoming plans, which will mean different teams needed onboard.

Normal Merchant vessels you can expect to be on for this ammount of time as a matter of course, but we’re a drill ship, where the work NEVER stops. 12 hours a day 24/7. No shore leave, no bar, no lazy afternoon routines. That’s why we limit the length of trip.

Mrk Seadog is being very stoic about it. Reckons it’s no fun at home either, and we’re probably better off separated by thousands of miles of ocean.

Looking for a silver lining is the massive chunk of leave I will have built up. Either take it as one long swing off, or lengthen my leave periods 6 off 2 on for the next few rotations.

We’ve shut our manufacturing and installation side today because workers can’t maintain social distancing, one client just responded that they will be looking to contra charge us if we are not on site carrying out an install of theirs next week…

Wife’s company has asked everyone to volunteer to a 25% pay cut. Medium / small IT consultancy & delivery company. Trying to save as many jobs as they can.

My wife’s company – a large Civil Engineering company – just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.
Whats my wife’s rights and why wouldn’t they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?

Basically they’re doing it to retain staff. Your wife is of course perfectly within her rights to complain like mad and refuse. However she’ll get her letter about 48 hours later and she’ll be out of a job.
Don’t worry give them about a month and they’ll be laying large numbers of people off.

As I’ve been self-isolating for the last week, just in case, I’ve been out of the loop at work, so spoke to my supervisor this evening, and the site has just closed down.
Knew it was coming, all the BCA and other drivers who bring in Motability cars would be stopping, because car dealerships were having to close, and nobody would be picking up from people at home. Enterprise, who we store cars for, have been sending us endless transporters over the last few days, getting as many away as possible, and we’re pretty much maxed out for storage of those, with 500 vehicles on site now.
We’ve been guaranteed the 80% of our normal wage, and our boss is trying to get a 20% top-up; he’s helped here by the fact that we get paid for storage of Enterprise vehicles, and what we have on site at the moment is already worth a significant amount of money.
Also helping is the fact that people won’t have any travel costs, or social spending for that matter. Or holidays. It certainly means I’ll be saving roughly £70/month in fuel costs, as I won’t be driving 155 miles a week for work. Or anywhere else much for that matter, and my social spending has taken a major cut too; no pub at weekends, no gigs either.
I’m certainly feeling more positive about things where I am now, than where I was five years ago, that’s for sure.

My MD sent me over some paperwork on the mechanics of the furlough for a discussion tomorrow as we may have to do it at work.
I only skimmed it as it came just as I was finishing for the day. Can’t remember if it’s official HMRC or industry advisor but it mentions that the 80% payment is ambiguous as some people think it is based on the cost to the employer so employers NIC is added before the 80%/£2500 is applied.
They also mentioned that it’s not clear how it will be processed, possibly via the RTI submisssion, but “they are working on systems to facilitate it”. Great that’ll work well going on how well other govt systems work first time.

The grant paid will be 80% of the reference period wage, plus employers’ NIC and the legal minimum pension contributions. For example, if the 100% wages per month are £1,000 and employers’ NIC was £115 and pension contribution £30, the total cost to the employer would be £1,145. It is this amount that the grant would be payable on. Therefore, in this situation, the maximum grant would be £916 per month

pkf-francisclark.co.uk/blog/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-headlines-and-details-that-we-have-so-far/

In that case, given companies dont have to pay the PAYE and NIC straight away they’d have the cash in hand for 91.6% of the pay, but of course its got to be paid sometime down the line.

My wife’s company – a large Civil Engineering company – just announce a 1/3 wage reduction for 3 months FFS.
Whats my wife’s rights and why wouldn’t they keep them at 100% and seek Government assistance?

You can only get assistance if you fully furlough someone. Businesses often can’t just shut down even if there’s no new work coming in. Assuming that you can possibly furlough half your workforce then you still only get paid on average 40% of your salary bill from HMRC. Also, assuming you have a full workload now but are looking at a train wreck in a few months time when you have no new work you need to start saving. 30% cut now might turn a 3 month survival window into a 6 month survival window for example.

For many companies it will be a tough call whether to shut down completely or soldier on (assuming that can be done safely).

Surprisingly my company (scaffold firm) have been amazing. Everyone was told a couple of hours after Boris’s speech monday to stay off work despite all our main contractors staying (and still) open.

Then yesterday recieved a phonecall and motivational speech that well get through it and will be furloughed from this Tuesday

Going back to the top of this thread, and whether getting forced out and to look for a new job/change career is a good thing or not.

I used to work in IT. Then I got fed up with work I found unfulfilling and left to do an MSc in Brewing. Then I ended up doing IT for a brewing company as they pay was really good and I was skint after not working for a year.
However, I still wasn’t enamoured with the work, and when my contract finished in a couple of months I was going to leave and get into some brewing work anyway.

But now it looks like I *might* end up getting a few months garden leave on 80 or 100% pay – giving me time to chill and look for a new job. I have built up all my savings again from the IT job so am in an OK position to be out of work for a bit (even if it takes me 6 months to find more work).

So, this might, in a certain sense be a good outcome for me.

^ Someone mentioned lay-off clauses in contracts above. Is that key to getting the government grant? I noticed my contract has that clause in it when I had a read yesterday.

Had a read through in detail now (it was from the ICAEW) and as Ben posted, employers NIC & pension contributions are added in. It also states that the money is a grant to employers and employees should get paid as normal under employment law, unless their contracts get re-drawn. It also looks like there is scope to have people fluctuating between work and furlough as business needs dictate. It adds that staff don’t have to accept furlough but then they could be made redundant.

Could get rather tricky!

@Yourguitarhero- the paperwork I’ve seen has no mention of layoff clauses- just references to employment law.

given companies dont have to pay the PAYE and NIC straight away they’d have the cash in hand for 91.6% of the pay, but of course its got to be paid sometime down the line

From what I’ve seen on the ICAEW extract employers still have to pay PAYE & NIC as they should still be paying staff. Whereas there’s a VAT payment deferral, there’s no mention of the same for PAYE. If you need to delay then you have to contact the usual HMRC helpline

Self employed.
After five weeks of sitting around hearing about event after event being cancelled, I’ve been working this last week.

Currently refurbishing a sauna with a view across the lake to the alps. Really just the three of us in there without much contact to anyone else.

Until Merkel says she will pay my rent, heating, water, gas and food bills then I’m going to carry on with working as and when I can.

There is some help available (up to 5k) but only if you’re really on your arse. If you have any savings then those have to be used up before you are eligible. I’m fortunate that I’ve got a healthy five figure sum on my account, but that’s only thanks to my lack of want. Why should I have to burn through my savings whilst the feckless who spunked their cash each month get given hands outs?

On the plus side….

The ride to work on the train is pleasant as I’ve pretty much got a carriage to myself. Also, all ticket controls have been stopped due to health fears for the ticket inspectors so public transport is essentially free.

Just been informed that the plug is being pulled on the project I’m on. All wrapped up as from tomorrow as the company is shutting down for a month, so they’ll review it at the end of April.

So I’ll be glued to the press conference later to see if us self-employed are actually going to get any assistance. I hope so (he said in an understated manner) as I’m now a gentleman of leisure, and looking forward to luxuriating on 94 quid a week Universal Credit, if the Universal Credit system hasn’t completely imploded already, which I suspect it’s about too.

Hey ho

Sorry if its been mentioned already but does anyone know what a 1 man ltd company falls under for any of the grants? Do I fall under self employed? Most of my income is dividends with the minimum as PAYE.

Thanks

does anyone know what a 1 man ltd company falls under for any of the grants? Do I fall under self employed? Most of my income is dividends with the minimum as PAYE.

I’m the same. Just had an email from my accountant earlier confirming dividends aren’t included.
80% of your PAYE only.

Think that’s referenced in the ICAEW link above

TheBrick
Member
Lawyers will do well out of this as always!

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Not all of them, my wife’s a solicitor for a firm of conveyancers, guess what’s happening there….

How much do you think VAT and tax are going to go up after all this?

Why should I have to burn through my savings whilst the feckless who spunked their cash each month get given hands outs?

It’s always the way because it’s hard to differentiate between the feckless and those in need.

Not all of them, my wife’s a solicitor for a firm of conveyancers, guess what’s happening there….

Point taken, should I say corporate lawyers? Or it’s probably something more specific than that!

8 months self employed here – so no support at all. Many self employed and PAYE with salaries 2, 3 times the average income will be given up to £7500, some who have had no loss of income.

Why are the most vulnerable being forgotten about ?

seems as if the helplines are overloaded for income support or whatever its called 130,000 waiting last night to getting through, and limited to people with less than 16,000 in savings.

if youve been self employed for less than a year, nothing.

no help to pay off finance on tools or equipment, van insurance /road tax/finance/hp, or rent or other buisness costs.

Going to be a roller coaster few months,lots of companies want reopen, or be burgled.

Huge number of new signs gone up locally from security companies advising of their services, usually a man in a beat up van in a green hi viz coat.

Whats going to happen to all the new builds,will they be finished,and who will be able to get a mortgage to buy one, thousands being built locally, and all site work and builders depots closed.

Why are the most vulnerable being forgotten about ?

Which party is in government again?