Just saw a really interesting youtube clip where Conor Dunn (ex world team pro and now gcn presenter) tried to find out how fast he could go up the zwift innsbruke climb. Full pelt, he averaged 4.2 watts per kilo and it took him 20.57. That was him absolutely flat out.

I post this as I know alot of us did the same climb as part of the 1st stw race series. I think on the day I was around 5th fastest up the climb, however i was only 19 seconds slower than conor, with a higher watts per kilo, and I still had the rest of the race to go after the climb.

I know there were folks like nixie who would have smashed conors time during that race. He reckoned He was around 19% less power than his very best when a pro, but I still was genuinely surprised that he wasn’t much much faster.

I’d always thought pros were naturally much better than us mere mortals, even.if they don’t train, but apparently that may not be the case.

he weighs 90kg, and did 381w, safe to say his forte wasn’t the high mountains, but sit him on the flat and watts beats w/kg, so he’s your big diesel dragging it along, how much did he lose as a %?

edit: 19% so that puts him above 450w and 5w/kg

You sure it wasn’t the same video where they tested their power whilst hungover? 😉

He shouldn’t be allowed to draft on zwift either, he can’t in real life.

he weighs 90kg, and did 381w, safe to say his forte wasn’t the high mountains

Appreciate that, and hed clearly Muller me in a flat race. I just thought hed be far far quicker on the climbs as well. Let’s be honest, he’s spent the last 15 years cycling at the very top level, and I’m a 45 year-old ex smoker who’s been cycling a few hrs a week for past 6 years

Phil who does the stw race series is about 60, and weighs not far off 90 kg as far as I can tell, went faster up there than him. And we both still had half a race to run so weren’t exactly going full wack.

I’m not sure what to take from it to be honest..The positive that I’m almost as fast up a hill as a newly retired pro, or the depressing fact that you can clearly lose your fitness very very quickly indeed.

Something sounds very wrong there. 4.2w/kg is not recently retired ex-pro level. As you say, plenty of folk on here could beat that. Whether it’s his turbo or Zwift algorithms, I guess the main takeaway is don’t take Zwift too seriously.

I’m probably more representative of most mere mortals and he was about 10mins faster and a bunch of watts better than me!

Clearly I looked at his result from a different perspective and was impressed. Interesting to see how he bounces back to fitness after the 8-week block.

He was a pro until 2019 so id say thats recentlu retired. He put out 380 watts for the duration, but weighs 90kg (he’s about 6.5).

Watch the video, he is totally cooked by the end of it.

How power will either be off his turbo or his powermeter but regardless they’ll both be pretty accurate. I must say I was surprised, but then again if you weigh 90 kg there is probably only so much power you can produce.

Someone like his fellow presenter Simon Richardson, also retired pro, puts out not much less power as I recall, but weighs far less.

Not watched the vid, but was Connor sufficiently heat adapted to turbo sessions, having done 2-3 weeks of intervals?

Without adaption, his heart rate will be significantly higher compared to outdoor riding, lowering his power.

Isn’t Conor about 6’8″? Silly tall anyway…all that frontal area must have some effect, even riding uphill!

I was surprised at that time too, but I think small differences in average poer can have a big affect on times on hills. Coincidentally my best ride on Zwift ever, was in a race up the same hill, strava says my time was 19:06 that day. avg power of 311w and a W/Kg of 4.7. I was pretty fit at the time but it was one of those days where you just feel great. I get the impression that Connor has done very little training since stopping being a pro, and it’s a route that really doesn’t suit someone of his size. I also wonder if saying you’ve lost 19% fitness tells you very much. Everyone racing in a higher cat in zwift will be pretty fit, and the differences in fitness between riders are actually pretty small, it’s just improving your fitness by even a small margin gets harder and harder the fitter you get. So 19% loss in your numbers is probably going to take a massive amount of work to get back. I suspect in the series they are doing off the back of this he’ll make some reasonably rapid gains at first as he gets used to training again, but making back the last 10-15 of that loss will take months of work.

all that frontal area must have some effect, even riding uphill!

May not make much of a difference when “riding” indoors though 🙂

Zwift takes into account your height and adds on ‘air resistance’

Regardless of his pretty shit time up the hill, he comes across as a top bloke.

Regardless of his pretty shit time up the hill, he comes across as a top bloke.

As a pro he gave good interviews, came across very personable.
After the collapse of the aqua blue team Dunne and Larry Warbasse went for a little bike ride. There’s a podcast “so they rode” on the cycling podcast. Worth a listen.

Regardless of his pretty shit time up the hill

he did 381w for 20 minutes 😂

he did 381w for 20 minutes 😂

He did, but that didn’t equate to a particularly good time did it! And it may be 381 watts but that only equates to 4 watts per kilo as a power to weight ftp for Conor, which again isn’t great. For context big mig, who obviously was quite a bit better than Connor in his time, was measured at 4.9 w/kg 14 years after retiring!!

Obviously it’s all relative but his time was barely better than mine, and I’m a very average club cyclist.

Clearly he ain’t built for climbs, but I’d still have expected him to be far faster than that. Interested to see how much better he gets after the training.

If I remember Dan Lloyd gained around 10% during a similar challenge.

Ah, the joys of cycling. Man and machine working together, the breeze in your hair, freedom to explore the world. And people on internet forums willy-waving over the performance of an ex-pro, who seems like a decent bloke. Go outside and ride your bike.

Ergs don’t float.

12 weeks to train and he’d smoke yo all.

4 weeks sedentary during lockdown can kill a year of gains easy.

A bad breakfast / sleep alone can knock me for 20%.

Ah, the joys of cycling. Man and machine working together, the breeze in your hair, freedom to explore the world. And people on internet forums willy-waving over the performance of an ex-pro, who seems like a decent bloke. Go outside and ride your bike

HAve you noticed it’s the middle of winter and snowing on a chunk of the country ?

Unfortunately, the “willy-waving on internet forums” attitude is perennial 😉

Turbos are a great tool and, as you say, perfect for this time of year. I take issue with the “I’m nearly as good as an ex-pro” assertion and subsequent harsh remarks about his performance.

My “get out on your bike” remark should be interpreted in a philosophical rather than physical sense.

Zwift takes into account your height and adds on ‘air resistance’

Oops, didn’t realise that as not a Swift user and never will be. All my riding is outside whatever the weather.

I wonder how much power is generated with the upper body when climbing, Connor has a lot of that. It’s somewhat negated on a turbo and perhaps he’s just not very good at riding one. His figures on other GCN videos seem better when outside. Possibly why the names on virtual racing leaderboards aren’t the usual suspects either.

willy waving? anyone who’s ridden with me lately knows that aint true, more like…I Could have been a contender

And people on internet forums willy-waving over the performance of an ex-pro

Is calling myself an average club cyclist is willy waving then guilty as charged ..

HAve you noticed it’s the middle of winter and snowing on a chunk of the country ?

And, get out.

I’m nearly as good as an ex-pro” assertion and subsequent harsh remarks about his performance.

For the hard of understanding, I think my post was more expressing surprise that an ex pro had lost so much fitness in 2 years. It’s not as if he’s not been on the bike in that time is it.

I’m clearly not nearly as good as an ex pro. However the difference seems less than i and many others would have expected on a climb like that.

From recollection a 60 year-old stwer put nearly minute into him on that same climb. If you dont think that’s surprising then fair enough, I certainly do.

I think my post was more expressing surprise that an ex pro had lost so much fitness in 2 years.

Raising a kid probably takes priority.

From recollection a 60 year-old stwer put nearly minute into him on that same climb. If you dont think that’s surprising then fair enough, I certainly do.

Would be suprising if it happened in real life. Not the same as racing up the actual climb on the same day though is it, as much as Zwift do to make online racing a level field?

he weighs 90kg

Perhaps now, but if about 2m tall he could easily have been below 80kg when he was race fit. That’s a 12% reduction.

Combined with the “19% increased fitness” would give him a 33% better W/kg. That works out at a much more impressive 5.6 W/kg for 20mins – at the low end of International Pro” on Coggan’s chart.

Raising a kid probably takes priority

For sure he said he has gone from 30 hrs a week training to maybe 3 so a big drop is to be expected. I just assumed (obviously wrongly) that if you were at that level you were always going maintain a level of fitness unobtainable by your average Joe.

Interestingly though they did a feature last year around how long soemone could hold brad Wiggins 440 watt hr record power for. The pro (which I assume was conor) held it for 45 min…

That a hell of a drop off of power since then!

For the hard of understanding, I think my post was more expressing surprise that an ex pro had lost so much fitness in 2 years. It’s not as if he’s not been on the bike in that time is it.

In one of the David Miller books, after his last pro race he get a lift to an airport from a retired pro. Sorry can’t remember his name but he was from the Mig’ era. Basically he tells Miller that’s it’s over. You’ll lose it all. It’s not tennis or cricket where you’ll have a crowd pleasing shots for years to come. Once this seasons fitness has gone you’re just another person

I’ll give an example from three other end of a career. Kate Courtney, from the ages of 14 to 24 added the same power output every year for those 10 years

Oh and finally the Mig’ retirement are news because they are unusual. Not because they are the norm’

He wasn’t exactly flat out on all the climb though was he, he was talking to Ryan Mullen and the camera, and talking pretty well at that… Not sure you would be able to do that in a 20 minute all out effort, I certainly cant. His power was also up and down as he tried to hang on and race, rather than a steadier effort that would have probably given him a better time. Even so 4.2 W/kg as a starting point is still massive

He looked pretty flat out to me, afterwards he was cooked. The whole point was to go flat out and then see how much he improved

Even so 4.2 W/kg as a starting point is still massive

I wouldn’t class 4.2 watts for 20 min as anywhere close to massive. I would class it as a solid base for a decent club cyclist, nothing more.

Obviously i expect him to increase it massively over the next few months, which your decent club cyclist would not be able to do.

For context big mig, who obviously was quite a bit better than Connor in his time, was measured at 4.9 w/kg 14 years after retiring!!

He (Mig) also won multiple TdF’s, held the hour record and was smacked off his Spanish tatas on EPO for a huge amount of his career, Connor has achieved none of the former and probably not the latter either.

A massively de-trained Pro is still better than the vast majority of normal people and has absolutely nothing to gain from the typical internet based bullshit that abounds when zwift times and racing are the topic. What’s the difference then you may ask, the fact he can do those “meagre” watts (when race fit) after 160km of racing in a GT for 20 days on the bounce (with a couple of rest days). It’s like saying I can take a free kick and hit the top corner, ace, do it again and again and you might make it as a pro footballer.

As pointed out he’s a bit heavier than when he raced, his official racing weight was 88kg and at 6ft 8 that’s bloody light, he was an OK Pro, only broke into the top 1000 UCI registered Pro’s on 2 occasions, so there’s literally over 5.5 TdF’s worth of riders better than him on any one year.

I’m constantly amazed about the number of Japanese and Chinese cyclists on Zwift knocking out over 5w/kg yet there are hardly any pro tour riders from those countries.

Connor has achieved none of the former and probably not the latter either.

But he was racing in the world champ only 2 years ago, and is a young man, rather than big mig, who had been retired for 14 years And was 50 at the time.

No-one is questioning how super human these pros are, and if Conor can finish the vuelta then he was clearly an astonishingly good cyclist up until very recently.

Judging by the etape, most club cyclists take around twice as long to complete a world tour stage as the pros do, and that’s without having 2000 miles in the legs before hand.

If I recall Mrs Dubs GSCE PE teaching, you lose fitness 4-6 times as quickly as you gain fitness, so 4-6 weeks of training can be undone by a week of inactivity.

I’m sure it’s not a simple as that, but you can see how a pro could drop from World Class to merely Very Good in a couple of years.

If you watch the GCN videos regularly you’ll hear Conor describe his fitness as a diesel engine so lowish power numbers are not completely surprising but he can go for a long time at that lower power. From what he’s said over the year or so he’s been on the channel you can build the picture that he was a great team member for letting the faster sprinters hide behind him and save their energy to attack on sprints, hills etc. There is one section of one video where him and Manon have a good chat about their different strengths and weaknesses which was rather interesting, him being a Grand Tour and distance specialist and her a track specialist. It’s easy to forget that the big teams have different riders for different tasks, it’s not all full of the headline-grabbing winners and sprinters. Conor was one of those team players that supported the others and never really got to sit in the limelight.

Will be very interesting to see how much he can improve his numbers, might even try one or two of his workouts if I have time between the STW races and my own training rides.

Judging by the etape, most club cyclists take around twice as long to complete a world tour stage as the pros do, and that’s without having 2000 miles in the legs before hand.

Given that, how well do you think most club cyclists Zwift stats, times and power numbers actually add up in the real world?

Everyone knows someone who has smashed a time on a climb on Zwift, quite a lot of those times are miles better than real world times by normal pros, let alone absolutely outstanding climbers.

For example, the fastest recorded 20 times up the real (14.454km) Alpe D’Huez are:

1 37′ 35″ Marco Pantani 1997 Italy @ 23kph
2* 37′ 36″ Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
3 38′ 00″ Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
4 38′ 01″ Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
5 38′ 04″ Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
6 38′ 23″ Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
7 38′ 34″ Floyd Landis 2006 United States
8 38′ 35″ Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
9* 38′ 37″ Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
10 39′ 02″ Richard Virenque 1997 France
11 39′ 06″ Iban Mayo 2003 Spain
12* 39′ 17″ Andreas Klöden 2004 Germany
13* 39′ 21″ Jose Azevedo 2004 Portugal
14 39′ 22″ Nairo Quintana 2015 Colombia
15 39′ 28″ Miguel Induráin 1995 Spain
16 39′ 28″ Alex Zülle 1995 Switzerland
17 39′ 30″ Bjarne Riis 1995 Denmark
18 39′ 31″ Carlos Sastre 2008 Spain
19 39′ 44″ Gianni Bugno 1991 Italy
20 39′ 45″ Miguel Induráin 1991 Spain

The fastest times on the 12.22km Alpe du Zwift are Here
Top of the tree is some chap who has done it in 28:02 at 26.2kph and 503W average, so 3kph faster than the greatest climber of all time.

Top of the tree is some chap who has done it in 28:02 at 26.2kph and 503W average, so 3kph faster than the greatest climber of all time.

Obviously a well calibrated trainer! Where can I get one of these for Tuesday’s race 🙂

Obviously a well calibrated trainer! Where can I get one of these for Tuesday’s race

By all accounts, just ask most of the “normal club cyclists” posting on this thread to borrow theirs 😉