Coming back to MTBing; where do I even start?

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

If you live in London then it’s super easy to get out to Surrey on the train and a lot of those trails work really well on an HT. Plus an HT with modernish geometry and 29 wheels ticks a lot of the OP’s constraints so he won’t constantly hanker back to 2006.

Plus an HT is a ton better looking than another gravel bike

I think a HT is the sensible choice really. As stated; a HT will be lighter than a FS at any particular price point. A sub-25lb FS is easily achievable, just more expensive.

There was some respectful glances between myself and a fellow HT rider this weekend (both on Marins as well, oh we must be cool and handsone) at Glentress…So HT also get you bragging rights ?

You want a 25lb MTB, well they exist… But be prepared to spend SERIOUS bucks!

Ok, so “SERIOUS bucks!” is relative but…

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/epic-8-comp/p/220872?color=362028-220872

£4250 list price

You don’t need to be spending 10s of thousand on a Pinarello.

that’s 26 lb’s if rounding right? 😛

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

Though you are right on the ratio of on here saying ‘hardtail’ to the reality of most trails, particularly trail centres.

What do we estimate FS eBike / FS / HT (and I am not even having a category for HT ebike…) – I bet 60% / 35% / 5% on the trails these days.

that’s 26 lb’s if rounding right? 😛

I know, but it’s close enough. Switch it to tubeless and you’d probably hit 25. But my point really is you don’t need to spend silly (again, it’s all relative) money to get a very light, and very capable (it’s 120mm front and rear!) bike.

Ok, so “SERIOUS bucks!” is relative but…

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/epic-8-comp/p/220872?color=362028-220872

£4250 list price

You don’t need to be spending 10s of thousand on a Pinarello.

Yes, that’s more like it. A better set of wheels and some lighter tyres, and that’s easily under 25lbs. Under 24 by throwing a bit more money at it.

What do we estimate FS eBike / FS / HT (and I am not even having a category for HT ebike…) – I bet 60% / 35% / 5% on the trails these days.

Forest of Dean a couple of weeks ago I saw one hardtail other than mine, and it was busy. In fact I’m pretty sure I saw more motorbikes than bicycles. But they were going further, getting out more, and getting a great workout.

But they were going further, getting out more, and getting a great workout.

LolzZzz

And smiling more. You forgot smiling more…

“On my hardtail I’m working to maintain speed.”

Going singlespeed means you have to do that even more because pedalling doesn’t help once you’re going at a reasonable speed downhill!

“and some lighter tyres”

They’re already what most of us would consider very light tyres! And don’t forget to add some pedals.

Weight matters so much less than rolling resistance (which 29ers help with enormously, especially on rougher ground) and pedalling efficiency (which modern suspension improves, and when going uphill – which is when it really matters – modern geometry improves).

Yes, that’s more like it. A better set of wheels and some lighter tyres, and that’s easily under 25lbs. Under 24 by throwing a bit more money at it.

We all have our own perception of what is good value and worth spending on.
But £4k+ on a bike to start with, to then immediately upgrade wheels and maybe throw more money at it is a different game from the one I play…

Matt +1

 A better set of wheels and some lighter tyres, and that’s easily under 25lbs. Under 24 by throwing a bit more money at it.

It could be a lot of things….. My Occam could be sub 10kg if I took various key bits off it and replaced them with other different bits.  And if I threw sufficient money at it my son’s bike could be a road bike. It’s a kinda pointless statement to say you can buy this expensive thing, change loads of it, and you’ll end up with….

Something else. And five and a half grand less in your bank account…. Great

Why do some people have a problem with how much money I want to spend (or not)?

I’ll buy what I want, sorry if some of you find that concept offensive. And maybe I’m ‘wrong’, but hey; that’s up to me. I asked for advice, not loads of judgment and a condemnation of my own choices. If you have nothing constructive to say, please don’t bother contributing to this thread any longer.Thanks.

“I’ll buy what I want”

Jolly good. But maybe you shouldn’t have said, “Any clues as to what I should be looking at?”, if you didn’t want our advice?

“Why do some people have a problem with how much money I want to spend (or not)?”

Your past self, yesterday or the day before, has a problem with how much you want to spend:

“As little as possible, preferably, but realistically, I’d say £5k is probably around the upper limit.”

Jolly good. But maybe you shouldn’t have said, “Any clues as to what I should be looking at?”, if you didn’t want our advice?

I wanted advice on the kind of bikes I specified. And I’ve had some, to be fair. Which has been useful.

Your past self, yesterday or the day before, has a problem with how much you want to spend:

“As little as possible, preferably, but realistically, I’d say £5k is probably around the upper limit.”

And it appears I could easily achieve that.

A middle of the road, not too extreme geometry 29er hardtail feels like a good place to start. I got back into riding more regularly recently after a few years out of it and went for a Vitus Sentier 29 to replace an older 26″ hardtail, it’s pretty conservative in geometry and works well as a “bit of everything” bike and is surprisingly capable on DH trails. I wasn’t sure on 29″ wheels and may still prefer smaller wheels for certain stuff, but for “wheels on the ground” riding I don’t think you can beat the bigger wheels, they just roll so much better and smooth out the annoying momentum sapping bumps really nicely – just keeps rolling. From there you can work out what you do/don’t like about modern bikes, or you might be happy with it as is.

I was out on my steel 650b HT tonight and it was ace fun. So is my 29″ FS.

Anyway, the answer to the OP’s question is clearly a Specialized Epic of some description. If you can find one of the £1500 sale HT’s it’ll be relatively cheap and light enough. Otherwise I’d be looking for one of the £4000 sale Epic Evo’s as they come with carbon wheels as standard and look very similar to the 8’s. Also as light as requested.

Or…… One of the discounted Santa Cruz Blur Stif are offering.

be looking for one of the £4000 sale Epic Evo’s as they come with carbon wheels as standard

Just to check, am I right in saying that there are no reduced size large evos in carbon wheel spec about,?

I keep checking and it looks like they are all gone.

My point wasn’t the amount of money you’re spending.

It’s the “start with something that’s not right and costs a lot for the privilege of having to spend more to achieve what I want”. If you’re spending that much, buy a frame and build it up…

See you on the trail when you’ve picked up those toys you just threw…

Big discount on a quick, sub 26lb FS:

Scott Spark RC Team

https://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/scott-spark-rc-team-black.html

There’s plenty of options out there – as I already suggested, get out & try a few.

See you on the trail when you’ve picked up those toys you just threw…

What a pointless comment. No toys have been thrown here. 

A middle of the road, not too extreme geometry 29er hardtail feels like a good place to start.

Yes, I’m now very much veering towards that sort of idea. The main reason being that it would be the best type of bike in a practical sense. Also, I’m less likely to make an expensive mistake than if I bought a FS bike that turned out not to be quite right for me. And it would also perhaps give me a better idea of more modern bikes too.

There’s plenty of options out there – as I already suggested, get out & try a few.

Goes without saying. I have tried a few more modern bikes over the last few years, although not in ‘anger’ so much. Really not a fan of the more ‘hardcore’ longer travel style for general use at least. Quite fun on rough descents mind. Another consideration is the 27.5″ wheel size; this seemed to offer a good compromise between the lighter, more agile nature of the 26″, and the faster rolling of the 29″/700c. A couple of 29″ FS bikes I’ve tried have felt too big really. Slower to accelerate and turn, but these have admittedly been big 30lb+ bikes. Everything’s a compromise. But a HT might be more adaptable for varying terrain. Plenty of options indeed.

https://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=12244

Could be worth a look

“Just to check, am I right in saying that there are no reduced size large evos in carbon wheel spec about,?”

Don’t seem to be able to quote properly atm? Anyway, Certini look to have the rust colour in large.