Coming back to MTBing; where do I even start?

Having seen the OP’s responses to our suggestions, to answer his original question “don’t discount what people suggest just because you’ve already decided what’s best”.

Crack on!

buy a cheap HT bike and go for a ride? my mate has a £500 cannondale 29er Ht and its an ideal starter. voodoo bikes from halfords also decent. The forks are not amazing but you can buy an upgrade second hand for not much if you actually get into it.

dont get caught up in the need for flash kit when starting out – just go ride.

Having seen the OP’s responses to our suggestions, to answer his original question “don’t discount what people suggest just because you’ve already decided what’s best”.

Crack on!

Not at all. I’ve specified what kind of riding I’d be doing, given as good a description as I can really, and people are still suggesting bikes that are unsuitable. It’s a bit like recommending a cricket bat when I want to play tennis.

buy a cheap HT bike and go for a ride? my mate has a £500 cannondale 29er Ht and its an ideal starter. voodoo bikes from halfords also decent. The forks are not amazing but you can buy an upgrade second hand for not much if you actually get into it.

dont get caught up in the need for flash kit when starting out – just go ride.

This, I consider good advice. A cheaper bike might be a bit heavier but at least would give me a route back into MTBing. And I can easily sell it and ‘upgrade’ as and when I feel the need. I was used to pretty high end kit when I last rode, but I accept that’s not essential. Just nice to have. Nice light wheels are always a good investment though.

No ‘passive-agressiveness’ here, sorry if you interpreted it like that

ah, and a non apology to round it off…Cool, I’ll not bother the thread any further.

I’m not seeing @FormerMountainBiker as being passive aggressive, just chatty.

OP – if it’s just gentle bridleways and pathways, multi use trails etc then a gravel bike is the better option, quicker lighter, faster.

If it’s something that’s good value for money, good for most things and then surprisingly capable on the gnarlier stuff then a trail/hardcore hardtail is good. That’s what I’d go for and indeed it is what I ride mostly these days. XC orientated hardtails can be a little stiff and unconfortable.

A longer travel downcountry/shorter travel trail bike will be just as capable, but more comfortable on longer rides. But this comes at extra cost and extra maintenance.

OP – if it’s just gentle bridleways and pathways, multi use trails etc then a gravel bike is the better option, quicker lighter, faster.

I do like the look of some of those, but it’s the drop bars that puts me off. Doesn’t seem like there are many flat bar options amongst those.

I’m not seeing @FormerMountainBiker as being passive aggressive, just chatty.

I think some people can be oversensitive and not read things in the tone they were meant. It’s the internet.

I do like the look of some of those, but it’s the drop bars that puts me off. Doesn’t seem like there are many flat bar options amongst those.

Sonder Camino (great bike) flat bar.

Camino Al Apex1 Flat Bar

I have a 3 year old Camino, love it. Drop bars aren’t for everyone

“ Not at all. I’ve specified what kind of riding I’d be doing, given as good a description as I can really, and people are still suggesting bikes that are unsuitable. It’s a bit like recommending a cricket bat when I want to play tennis.”

I haven’t seen any unsuitable recommendations in the thread, all I’ve seen is someone who thinks they’re an expert discounting perfectly reasonable advice based on outdated personal experience.

From how you’ve described your needs, you could ride anything from a gravel bike to 140mm full-sus, depending on your up vs down priority, or an ebike with even more travel.

A cheap 29er hardtail is the best bet because you may learn a lot from that and if you want something better in the future you can come back to this thread and realise that you were wrong about a lot of things.

I actually really enjoy throwing the gravel bike with drop bars on, down some trails, get in the drops and relax the arms, it’s great fun. You do have to concentrate more than when on an MTB, picking a line rather than riding over anything.

It feels like a fast ish / light 29er head tail is the option to go for here.

A gravel bike is ok / but on rockier bridleways I wouldn’t fancy it tbh – even a flat bar one. Even 100mm of suspension fork takes the sting out of things.

Alloy will be your cheapest option – Rockshox Reba / SID would be fine in terms of fork for what you’re looking at. I’d aim for something in the 66 degree head angle sort of ballpark  – there isn’t really a downside to this over something more twitchy up near 70 degrees.

I haven’t seen any unsuitable recommendations in the thread, all I’ve seen is someone who thinks they’re an expert discounting perfectly reasonable advice based on outdated personal experience.

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs. I’m going to discount recommendations that ignore my specifications. As for an’ expert’; I don’t think that at all. But I’m not a novice.

in the future you can come back to this thread and realise that you were wrong about a lot of things.

Wrong about what? I’m curious.

Sonder Camino (great bike) flat bar.

Camino Al Apex1 Flat Bar

Yes, that looks like an excellent all rounder. I probably will go for some sort of suspension, front at least, as this does make things a little more comfortable over varying terrain.

I agree about the drop bars. Riding on the hoods is very much like flat bars with bar ends (remember them?). I can do a 60 mile ride on my road bike without once using the drops. I just ride on hoods and tops. However on the Diverge I use them quite a bit. On very steep rocky downhill they sometimes seem to bring a bit more control (I use a short dropper seatpost) other times it’s just a nice relaxing change, especially if my triceps are getting tired.

I’m seeing some slightly confusing bits from the OP.  Seems to be conflating length and difficulty and also seems to have an interesting view on where traditional TCs sit in the spectrum of difficulty.

I’ve ridden a fair bit in the UK, and there’s not much I’d consider truly difficult really, perhaps some of the more remote Scottish mountains

do prefer the old school geometry of being more forward over the bike, and had no problems descending even with a long seatpost. Rode a fair few UK trail centres and abroad on a hardtail with 80mm suspension long before I bought a fullsuss bike

and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do want to ride some of the myriad hard technical amazing bridleways/ trails that litter the country. ( Some of which may be short, but some of which really, really aren’t)

FTFY

hardtail because it was lighter. 100mm front fork. Was fine for all the descents I did, and they were a lot longer than you’d find in the UK.

Mmmm. The Tourmalet is much longer than anything in the UK.  But that gives no indication of the technical difficulty of the descent.

Bear in mind I’m going to be riding less trail centres, and more natural stuff.

You see. I’d read that as you will be doing more techie stuff rather than less.

Not that it matters, and no judgement being made, but it may help to explain some of the difference of opinion on the thread

If I do encounter the odd section that’s beyond my skills and ability, I’ll just either ride round or get off and walk.

True. Or if you find you are walking a lot, you could do what loads of people do and buy a more suitable bike and embrace the tech.

Again, no judgement. Just trying to point out that “skills compensators” are actually sometimes justified sensible purchase.

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs. I’m going to discount recommendations that ignore my specifications.

I’ve travelled with bike a good few times now. I’ve never been under 23kg total bag weight as my trail/enduro bike is well over 30lbs especially with downhill tyres on for alpine riding.  Never been charged extra. (always under 32kg which is the hard limit).

I’d add my vote to the short travel full suss crowd. 100 to 120mm travel. Carbon, XC tyres.

25lbs is acheivable for a full suss with dropper, but will cost you. As said on the first page, wheels are bigger, frames are bigger, bars are bigger. And more importantly, stuff is better and doesnt break all the time.

I’m not seeing @FormerMountainBiker as being passive aggressive, just chatty.

OP’s been on here before. His style was similar back then as well.

“Wrong about what? I’m curious.”

Your arbitrary 25lb weight limit is the first one. But having seen threads like these from returning riders over many years I will save myself any more typing – you’ll believe your own experience over anything I say. Buy a cheap 29” hardtail and report back after plenty of hours of riding.

If you think weight is critical, get someone to put your water bottle on your bike but ask them to leave it empty or fully fill it and not tell you – and see if you can tell the difference.

There do appear to be a number of recurring threads in this vein. Always wanting something very light and saying no need for droppers etc as they rode everything fine before.

The point to make is things have moved on and made riding better (in my view) – tubeless has virtually eliminated punctures for me, getting the saddle down out the way is a game changer and 1x is more intuitive when you’re concentrating on tech bits of trail.

Suspension systems have settled down and geometry has mostly settled the last few years.

On the weight thing my hardtail isn’t super light (30lbs ish) but it’s a a good 4-5lbs lighter than my full suspension bike. The hardtail is faster on smooth tarmac climbs and on fairly smooth fireroads – but the full suss is faster on anything bumpier / looser etc as it gets more grip. The weight doesn’t really come into it.

and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do want to ride some of the myriad hard technical amazing bridleways/ trails that litter the country. ( Some of which may be short, but some of which really, really aren’t)

I’ve ridden quite a few. In England, Scotland and Wales. I never fond anything that wasn’t achievable on a hardtail. Ergo, for me at least,a short travel bike is fine.

Mmmm. The Tourmalet is much longer than anything in the UK.  But that gives no indication of the technical difficulty of the descent.

Well, you’d be achieving much higher speeds than in the UK. TdF riders can get up to 60mph and more. As for technical difficulty; ever ridden in the Alps? Seen the Megavalanche? Nothing to touch that in the UK. But that’s irrelevant here; I won’t be doing that kind of thing anyway really. Which is why I don’t want or need a heavy trail bike.

I’d add my vote to the short travel full suss crowd. 100 to 120mm travel. Carbon, XC tyres.

25lbs is acheivable for a full suss with dropper, but will cost you.

I totally accept this. Light bikes have never been cheap.

I will save myself any more typing – you’ll believe your own experience over anything I say

Pretty much. I’m not looking for what you would buy, I’m looking for pointers towards the kind of thing that would suit me.

If you think weight is critical, get someone to put your water bottle on your bike but ask them to leave it empty or fully fill it and not tell you – and see if you can tell the difference.

That’s daft. I’m talking about 5lbs or more. One bike ‘recommended’ was listed as being 33lbs. That’s 8lbs over my specification. That is significant.

I totally accept this. Light bikes have never been cheap.

thats cool, was just unaware of your budget. on the previous page someone linked to an 2023 Epic Evo. It claims 28lbs weight. Spend some more for the Epic Evo Expert (functionally the same bike, but better specced) on the same website and thats 25lbs 7oz.

I’ve no reason to doubt that you have descended anything you ever had any cause to ride, on a steep angled, 80mm travel hardtail with a high seat post.

Just of the opinion that a modern short travel xc full suss with a dropper would make such a ride far more enjoyable – and would be of no detriment (probably still an improvment) on climbs, tarmac roads etc. the only downside being cost.

re the weight thing (all bikes with pedals, tools fitted etc)

my 160/135mm aluminium banshee is more than 33lbs

my 120mm top fuel carbon  (marathon?/downcountry?) bike is 31lbs

my hard tails have all been around 30lbs (aluminium, trail fork, moderate weight wheels and tyres)

i reckon my ally  gravel bike with rudy fork and dropper isn’t far under the 30lb mark

i reckon the only bikes ive owned in past 5 years close to 25lbs is 2 hybrids, an all ally Saracen levarg and my vitus mach3 with aftermarket wheels and tyres.

My mate has an older epic (evo?) which i think might be on 25lbs…. would’ve been a top model, does he ride anywhere quicker or further than me? no.. however he did have to send it off for appraisal when it fell against a fence post…

I don’t know if this radical idea has been raised.

If I go into a shop and am uncertain what I’m after, I make sure it’s a shop whose recommendations I can trust (whether bike shop, windsurf centre, butcher, fishmonger) and talk about what I’m trying to achieve and let them be the ones to translate that into what I need. “There you are sir, a couple of lovely spring lamb chops”.

In Stafford, a few rideable miles from Cannock Chase, which has a good mix of terrain, is Mammoth, the Specialized shop. They are staffed by knowledgeable riders who can listen to your thoughts and have a demo fleet which will enable you to try out the bikes they think will suit you. There’s Run & Ride and Swinnertons too that probably do the same.

“Bloody hell, I didn’t expect to enjoy that as much!”

As the Doobie Brothers sang – Tell me what you want and I’ll give you what you need.

As for technical difficulty; ever ridden in the Alps?

Tignes

Val d isere

Les arcs

La Plagne

Meribel etc

Leogang

Saalbach

Serfaus

Verbier

Champery

Morzine etc

Serre Chevalier

Montgrnevre

Puy

Deux Alpes

Ooh, almost forgot La Thuile

I think that’s all for now. Hopefully add La Clusaz to the list at the weekend

Seen the Megavalanche?

No. I have no interest in watching sports. Just doing them

Nothing to touch that in the UK.

For length yes. But not in terms of techie difficulty. I’ll wager there is stacks in the UK that is more techie

It’s certainly hot today, no question. Jut back from an amazing open water swim; I can heartily recommend it as a way of cooling down and de-stressing. Marvellous.

thats cool, was just unaware of your budget. on the previous page someone linked to an 2023 Epic Evo. It claims 28lbs weight. Spend some more for the Epic Evo Expert (functionally the same bike, but better specced) on the same website and thats 25lbs 7oz.

I’ve no reason to doubt that you have descended anything you ever had any cause to ride, on a steep angled, 80mm travel hardtail with a high seat post.

Just of the opinion that a modern short travel xc full suss with a dropper would make such a ride far more enjoyable – and would be of no detriment (probably still an improvment) on climbs, tarmac roads etc. the only downside being cost.

I’m totally open to the idea of a modern bike hence this thread. Very much leaning towards a short travel FS right now, purely for the fun and comfort factor. My Ibis was 5″/4″ F/R, and overkill for my needs really. A lot of fun though, so I get that concept. As mentioned, a similar type of bike now would be larger and heavier, so a lighter, shorter travel bike would be much more suitable now. But the practical side of me is saying that a flat bar ‘gravel’/hybrid type bike would be more useful in general. A HT would sit somewhere in the middle, in terms of compromise. Choices, choices.

I don’t know if this radical idea has been raised.

If I go into a shop and am uncertain what I’m after, I make sure it’s a shop whose recommendations I can trust (whether bike shop, windsurf centre, butcher, fishmonger) and talk about what I’m trying to achieve and let them be the ones to translate that into what I need. “There you are sir, a couple of lovely spring lamb chops”.

In Stafford, a few rideable miles from Cannock Chase, which has a good mix of terrain, is Mammoth, the Specialized shop. They are staffed by knowledgeable riders who can listen to your thoughts and have a demo fleet which will enable you to try out the bikes they think will suit you. There’s Run & Ride and Swinnertons too that probably do the same.

In London at least, bikes shops are concentrating far more on e-bikes, commuters and road bikes these days. Plus shop staff don’t seem to be as well trained, knowledgable, enthusiastic or motivated, sadly. A lot of the really good shops that sold MTBs are long gone. Makes testing stuff that bit more difficult.

I wouldn’t get a gravel bike… either a short travel FS or a Scott Scale 930, and see how that works for you

Try and find a new or lightly used Vitus rapide or sentier and do from there

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs.

Weight has really ceased to be an issue with bike spec now, to the extent that many bike companies don’t even list it anymore – obviously no-one is deliberately speccing stuff at 40lb + unless it’s a DH bike or an e-bike but a modern MTB will always weigh a bit more than the MTBs of old which did focus a lot on weight (and were often fairly noodly to ride as a result).

Bigger wheels, stiffer suspension, dropper post etc all adds up. The rather arbitrary 25lb is restricting you to really quite high end kit but there are plenty of excellent bikes up to around 28lb.

Quick example is the Epic Evo Pro that got mentioned, that’s 26.5lb (12.1kg) and that’s £8000!

Weight has really ceased to be an issue with bike spec now

Quick example is the Epic Evo Pro that got mentioned, that’s 26.5lb (12.1kg) and that’s £8000!

100% this…

I work for a well known tyre company, 10yrs ago it was expected that an XC race tyre weighed in the realms of 500-550g, now they’re 700-750g… And riders are often weighing them down with tyre inserts too! So that’s a a minimum of 1lb of extra rotating weight alone before we look at any other components on the bike!

Guy Kesteven recently rode a Pinarello Dogma MTB in their highest spec off the shelf (same bike as Pidcock won the olympics on, albeit a different spec) and it was a shade under 10.5kg, or approx 23.5lb in old money… For £12k!!!

You want a 25lb MTB, well they exist… But be prepared to spend SERIOUS bucks!

Modern bikes are longer, slacker, heavier etc. but eminently more capable… I’m not saying you should buy a 35lb+ 160mm travel Enduro bike, but I am saying that you need to embrace the general trend @FormerMountainBiker otherwise you are going to have to spend some serious cash!

The advice further up about just buying a “cheap” (relatively speaking) hardtail for now and just getting out and riding it is great advice. A £1500 HT these days will have 1x gears, a dropper post, a capable suspension fork, tubeless wheels and tyres, decent hydraulic disc brakes and capable geometry, even if its classed as an XC bike, and will be eminently more capable a bike than you are used to.

As for “gravel” bikes…? Unless you want a compromised road bike with knobbly tyres (many do, and they’re happy with it), then don’t bother… A 29er XC Hardtail is eminently more capable everywhere and barely any slower on the road in my experience.

Go and demo some bikes, proper rides not just round a carpark. A modern full suspension bike is so different to ride, it will require learning how to stay in a more centred / balanced riding position especially when it get exciting. None of that hanging your arse off the back because the bike is too short.

Make sure you get some help with proper setup: Controls; don’t try to make the bike feel like an old bike, geometry has changed for the better but it will take some getting used to.

Suspension; not just roughly setting sag, don’t try to making it feel fast by being too firm and losing all the benefits of modern dampers.

Tyres, they don’t need to be any where near as hard as they used to be, they are so much better now. Softer is grippier and faster.

Lots of fantastic advice here…

I think if you go out and test some bikes, many of your old preconceptions about what an MTB should be will be blown out of the water… And you’ll have a lot of fun in finding out about what it is you want an MTB to be!

I’m totally open to the idea of a modern bike hence this thread. Very much leaning towards a short travel FS right now, purely for the fun and comfort factor. My Ibis was 5″/4″ F/R, and overkill for my needs really.

That is considered “short” travel these days… Many WC level XC bikes are 120-130mm travel now… But suspension platforms have got a lot better, so typically you’re not trading downhill performance with climbing ability any more… Although if you suspect your riding won’t justify that kind of travel, then there’s still plenty of XC hardtails on the market with 100mm travel forks and a significant weight saving too…

In London at least, bikes shops are concentrating far more on e-bikes, commuters and road bikes these days. Plus shop staff don’t seem to be as well trained, knowledgable, enthusiastic or motivated, sadly. A lot of the really good shops that sold MTBs are long gone. Makes testing stuff that bit more difficult.

I do sympathise with you there to be fair… There are plenty of decent MTB shops out there, they’re just probably not anywhere near London! There are of course plenty of decent shops in London, but yes, the MTB focus isn’t there in general…

I found I was doing plenty of rides from my door during covid that sound very much like you’re planning to do.

My mate bought a gravel bike so I did too. It was ace for picking up and riding, especially on country roads and tracks I’d long left behind as my bikes got bigger and longer travel. Eventually though I realised I just couldn’t get on with drops and would have to completely change my riding style to ever be properly comfortable so I sold it….

and picked up a second hand carbon Cube C:62 XC bike with 120mm forks. Much comfier than the GB for me, nice and light, quicker off road and not much slower on. Convinced myself that it was just a touch small though so sold that and am now planning my next move.

I’ve looked at stuff like the Transition Spur, Orange Stage Evo, Santa Cruz Tall Boy and Specialized Chisel FS but all of them seem to be around 30lb in spec I would be willing to pay for which is just too much and they start treading on the toes of my other bikes. Think I’ve probably settled on a Specialized Epic Evo or 8 built to around 26lbs, which seems not especially difficult. In your shoes I’d be looking at one of the higher spec old model Epic’s that are 50% off if you can find one in your size. More XC than the Evo or 8 but lighter too.

Try a YT Izzo? Think this is fairly near you https://uk.yt-industries.com/demo-a-yt-bike/yt-mill-showrooms/

OP

If you are up for a second hand bike have a great condition trek top fuel 9.9 (2016). The original drivetrain has probably got a season in it

its 29” full sus with 100mm travel, carbon Dt Swiss wheels and 11 speed Xtr etc.

I live in west London if you want to check it out DM me

Woody71

I’d say it depends how much you’re thinking you’ll be taken by the bug again. For more “gentle” off-road riding and easier MTB every now and hen I’d probably recommend an alloy hardtail with 120mm ish of fork. Efficient on the road or gravel but can get rowdy if you want it to within reason. If you are prone to “mission creep” though, and think you’ll be wanting to go Alpine riding or hitting up trail centres and harder, then a mid-travel trail bike would probably be the best. You can still ride them on easy routes.

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

I hardly recall seeing anyone using hardtails, but perhaps I wasn’t paying attention.  The only one that sticks in my mind is a guy on the guide training who commented after every section ” oof, that was tricky on a hardtail” or “oof, pleased with that on a hardtail”.

“Why didn’t you bring a proper bloody bike with you then?” The assessor responded at one point.*

Almost as bad as single speeders…

* He didn’t really. Not quite

If you’re London based why not get yourself down to Pedal & Spoke in Peaslake or even Quench at Bedgebury and have a good look at what’s available then test ride/hire what you think will suit?  You used to be able to demo stuff at Cyclopark too but I’m not so sure about that now.

P&S are Specialized dealers & you used to be able to hire/demo just about anything from the range – they’ll often have deals on the used ones too.

FWIW, I’m in the South East & have reduced down to a gravel for most things & a Scott Spark for rides further afield..

Get on a demo day such as  day…https://www.orangebikes.com/demo-day

I’ve flown with bikes loads and as long as its under the hard limit its no odds.

I used to be able to clear some rough stuff on my HT..  1998 saracen kili but I’d much rather use my 130mm trail bike. Its faster and more fun.

If your adamant you want sub 25lb you’d almost be best buying a 2nd hand 26inch xc bike or hardtail.

I wouldn’t have any worries about buying a sensibly specced HT, until i found out exactly what i needed/wanted, my HT was ridden anywhere my longer travel FS were, granted i’ve don’t have a HT right now as it didn’t have a place between a gravel bike and 120mm XC/DC bike

I have witnessed similar fixation to weight with mates who rode MTBs in early 2000s but haven’t ridden any modern bikes. They might bounce the forks, lift the bike “oo quite heavy” and “why are tires so wide” (2.4”) and bars seem too wide as well.
I have even taken them to good trails and loaned them my good bike but no luck getting them back to MTBs.

(They have returned the favour by dragging me back to climbing walls with even less success. Climbing sure isn’t fun when you’re overweight and strength levels are 1/4 of what they used to be. )

“I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here”

They’re cheaper, lighter, and with modern 29” tyres and geometry remarkably capable on rough stuff. For more money full-sus bikes are better but I’d rather have a cheap hardtail than a cheap full-sus.

(My preferred bike nowadays is a 160mm 29” singlespeed hardtail which I freely admit is stupid according to all logical measures!)

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

I’ve got a 140mm hardtail and a 160/150mm full sus.

The full sus makes most stuff in this country too easy. It’s great at bike parks and in the Alps, but the rest of the time I’m over-biked and it does affect the amount of fun I’m having.

I think most people’s experience of hardtails are either XC or entry level, often with lightweight or poor quality forks. It’s truly astonishing what a modern geometry hardtail with a decent fork is capable of, whilst being lighter, cheaper, easier to pedal up hill, easier to maintain, and in my case, more fun on most trails.

“The full sus makes most stuff in this country too easy.”

I think a big part for me is how insanely fast a 160mm 29” full-sus can go, so I end up backing off because I’m scared of what might happen if I crash at that speed, whilst the lack of rear suspension on my hardtail makes it feel a lot faster (and wilder) at less terrifying speeds.

@chiefgrooveguru exactly. On my hardtail I’m working to maintain speed.