I am in shock.

One of my club mates got deliberately knocked off yesterday and it’s on video. A car / caravan combo drove past some mates riding yesterday, close pass horn blaring obviously pissed off at the minor inconvenience of being stuck behind the riders. Riders remonstrated the driver at the next set of lights. As they rode off the driver tipped the rear wheel of the rider, knocking him off the bike and luckily clear of the bike as the driver continued without stopping the car and caravan driving over the bike. It was all captured by a rear facing camera of the rider in front the guy knocked off. The driver only stopped when another driver who witnessed it all boxed them in.

Police shocked to see the video, but reckon he might get away with a drivers awareness course. WTAF.

Trying to main or kill someone using a motor vehicle = driver awareness course? Sounds about right for Looney Land.

How is that a driver awareness course? Should be off the road permanently.

Just wow. Don’t be tempted to share the video yet until you’ve exhausted bugging the police about a proper response, sticking it on social media affects the chance if there is a trial and gives them a get out. In fact, not sure whether even posting about it could be prejuducial, maybe contact one of the cycling lawyers. Don’t let the police palm it off, can you do a private prosecution for assault causing harm and damages, assume the bike is a write off?

Where was this and what was the driver like?

Semi-practical advice and not victim blaming. On the close pass with horn blaring we’ve already ascertained the driver is a headcase. My policy is to not escalate just to find out how much of a headcase, when they’re armed with several tonnes of high speed crushing equipment. If it goes shit-shaped as this did, there’s no comfort in having the moral high ground when you’re under the wheels of a caravan.

No way would i accept them being charged with a minor offense. Apart from anything else there is leaving the scene.

Press the cops hard on it.

You can’t prejudice a trial if nobody has been arrested.

Police shocked to see the video,

Are they?

but reckon he might get away with a drivers awareness course. WTAF.

Nah…

The system is geared towards quick processing of “motoring offences” not recognizing dangerous assaults where a vehicle was used. Awareness courses are more effective for those prone to speeding, not road-ragers.

He’ll go on the awareness course, pay the fee and emerge an unreformed arse with a story to tell and a bigger chip on his shoulder…

If it’s genuinely “shocking” push for a prosecution.

There’s a massive irony to a shed dragger being inconvenienced by another road user.

Still, I hope your friend gets a new bike and a prosecution is sought by the police as that sounds like far more than a slap on the wrists driving course is due.

can’t speak from direct experience but a clubmate was told not to post videos on line while the police were deciding what to do. They might be trying to avoid taking action in this case, but I’d treat this as still in that limbo, while the OP’s club mate is trying to make them deal properly with it.

On the leaving the scene, the driver could claim he was intimidated by the gang of cyclists and was heading to the nearest police station to report the accident caused by one of the cyclists.

Yeh the rider who filmed it put the video on Strava, I’ve told him to take it down.

Yes the bike is a write off.

Apparently the driver and wife / partner showed no remorse. Driver in his late 60s the rider was sat on the grass waiting for police they were stood a few metres away didn’t ask once how he was, apologise or anything. In the riders words probably didn’t appreciate / accept the seriousness of what they did.

This happened in Dorset.

Even if the police don’t charge him, then claim for the damages. This will be a civil case so a lower degree of evidence is required but it will involve his insurance company which will lose him his no claims discount. It may be worthwhile going back to the scene of the accident and taking additional photographs, especially if there is damage to the road surface.

Are you sure it was deliberate, perhaps the sun got in his eyes or he was swerving to avoid animal/vehicle/small child. I’m sure a half decent solicitor will have him back on the road with a clean license thinking he won in no time.

The bike/injuries is civil and totally different to the question of criminal charges.

There seems to be a failure in either the wording or the interpretation of “the law” that fails to recognise the possibility of vehicle being used as a weapon and it thus becomes assault with a weapon rather than careless driving or whatever.

That needs to change

If the police don’t prosecute then is there anything preventing you sending the footage to his insurer as part of a claim? I can imagine a claims handler taking one look at that and a cancelled insurance policy following. Something he won’t escape for many years. Combined with the claim from causing deliberate damage and injury should make his premium fatter than most criminal fines for a good few years.

The bike/injuries is civil and totally different to the question of criminal charges.

After asking the question, I went and googled. And an individual can bring a private prosecution, but it is recognised that it is difficult.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-prosecutions/private-prosecutions

Assault causing actual bodily harm (must be cuts, grazes, bruises?).  Criminal damage, which was reckless as to whether life was endangered……

The roads protester range rover woman was originally charged with assault and IIRC it was dropped when she agreed to a guilty plea for the dangerous driving

Police shocked to see the video, but reckon he might get away with a drivers awareness course. WTAF.

That seems the likely outcome after my experience a few years ago.

Driver deliberately grabbed my handlebars and dragged me towards some metal railings on a traffic island, all because I was in front of him at 5am! Even though it was directly outside Cardiff Prison and had multiple CCTV footage angles the police let him off with a stern talking to and bit further action! I put a formal complaint in about how it was handled and didn’t get anywhere, fobbed off with it being “his first offence” etc.

Hopefully yours will have a different outcome but don’t get your hopes up too high.

My worst punishment pass was a ‘vanner.
He overtook when it was safe and had use of a totally clear turn right filter lane. He chose not to use any of it.
His oversized mirror nearly took my head off, then 1 second later the corner of the caravan arrived cm’s off my right shoulder.
I was very, very angry and gave chase, as i knew there were roadworks about 2 mile up the road.
Went through a smiley face speed trap at 32mph… And as i reached the queue for the lights saw him make it through just as they changed to red.
I was going to wind down rhe jockey wheel to make him get out, then fill his face in.

Hope you clubmate recovers ok, he will get away with out any consequences in real terms, for an offence which could have been life changing.

The ironing is up at 9 on the irony o meter, a vanner getting miffed at being held up. Shoe – foot – other.

I’ve never understood the prosecutions brought in cases involving vehicles. In my head, based on the information in th op, there is alleged criminal damage, the vehicle has been used as a weapon to assault/attempt assault, in addition to dangerous driving. If the evidence supports the allegation why are drivers not charged with all of the offences committed?

Sorry for my ignorance, not a lawyer (or even an armchair lawyer)

When my rear camera was used to record a fatal accident, the police ceased it on scene and the card has never been returned (I did view the video at the inquest, however). Did they take away the evidence at the scene?

No way should it be published in a public forum until the police have decided how to proceed.

Wtaf.

I’m sorry to say if some bloke deliberately knocked me off the bike and then was forced by someone else to stop id have probably thrown a punch in his direction *

Obviously that’s not the appropriate response and id have ended up in trouble myself but I don’t think I’d be alone in doing that. It’s assault, no two ways about it

People like that need to be charged and banned, and I’d be kicking up a hell of a stink if the police don him off.

* caveat..I’m assuming the old xxxx didn’t look hard as nails😂

If someone is driving aggressively at you, yelling abuse at you or giving you a close pass, it’s best to say nothing.

In the first instance because if you’re wound up your more likely to get knocked over by other traffic, red mist having descended. I’ll never chase after a car for that reason.

If you happen to catch up with the offending veihcle at the lights etc, remember that it has already been established that the occupant is a cretin so rather than getting into a heated argument, weigh up your options, check your escape route, keep your mouth shut and remember what wing mirrors are for.

I’m serious, an expensive repair is more likey to make a driver think again than getting involved in an argument that nobody won.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-62062684

Don’t lose hope

This is where we need to crowd fund a private prosecution.

On the leaving the scene, the driver could claim he was intimidated by the gang of cyclists and was heading to the nearest police station to report the accident caused by one of the cyclists.

Yep. This is a major loophole that I fell foul of. As soon as a motorist starts reading forums or consults a lawyer, they’ll make sure this gets added to their story.

Priority number 1: Get a new bike out of the scumbag’s insurance. In the end, injuries (usually) heal and new bikes are ace. Don’t forget your mate’ll need a new helmet/ clothing/shoes etc if those got damaged.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on a prosecution, but see how that plays out. The key thing here, I think, is that you can hopefully prove that there was a second meeting and that intent is likely. Otherwise, the driver will just use the SMIDSY defence.

If that doesn’t go anywhere, there are two further avenues:

Write to the Police and Crime Commissioner in the area asking why this was not prosecuted given the evidence. If you can, reference some local policy about road safety.

Write to your MP. A letter from them to the P+CC can really pull some levers, but this will depend on which colour MP you have, sadly.

Firstly, glad everyone is okay – that’s the main thing.

If you do wish to share the footage then it might be worth sending it to a YouTube guy called Ashley Neal. He’s a driving instructor but very much pro-bikes so it might gain some much-needed publicity regarding idiot drivers.

I’m in no way connected with him but watch his YouTube stuff and I’m sure he’d be interested to watch and review the footage.

Club ride? Club insurance or affiliation to British cycling could help with chasing for the new bike etc from the driver, maybe more. If not, road.cc and near miss of the day.

No, read the posts before the last two and don’t stick it on youtube or missoftheday until you’ve exhausted getting the police to do something about it.

I was rammed off my bike, then driver got out and gave me a good few punches. All witnessed by a passer by.

It went to court. The prosecution was for the assault afterwards. Apparently it didn’t class as either dangerous driving or without due care and attention, and bar for attempted murder was too high to get a prosecution. Apparently we don’t ‘stack’ crimes in UK – only most serious charge is brought forward.

He got a year inside due to a long list of previous convictions.

IANAL

This is where we need to crowd fund a private prosecution.

Or support the Cyclists Defence Fund.

For any lawyers on here – if these were prosecuted as assault, do sentencing rules allow the punishment to include points or a ban, or do “motoring” penalties only apply to “motoring” offences?

I suspect we’d be even more disappointed by the sentences if it went down the assault route, which is why we maybe need an offence of using a vehicle as a weapon and sentences based on the potential severity of the outcome.

But then proving intent becomes the legal issue.

Matt, that sounds horrific.

It does seem odd that vehicles have been weeded out for a separate set of crimes and their use as a weapon seems seldom prosecuted unless at murder level. Can you imagine a situation where the CPS said “ah, I know the victim was badly beaten but it was with a baseball bat and the crime does not really fit with the bat and ball act of 1972. Now if it had been a tree branch it would be a clear case, but as it was turned on a lathe into a baseball bat shape and the aggressor was standing in a batting stance it’s strictly needs to be prosecuted user a different set of laws”.

No, read the posts before the last two and don’t stick it on youtube or missoftheday until you’ve exhausted getting the police to do something about it.

Absolutely, police first – I’m not recommending anything to the contrary.

But should the OP wish to share, then the YouTube route might gain some traction.

I’m glad your clubmate is Ok. There’s often a fine line between a WTF and calling an ambulance, I’m glad it fell to the former side this time

There’s a massive irony to a shed dragger being inconvenienced by another road user.

While this is clearly in jest, it’s this sort of low level “othering” that starts the process of being able to feel like it’s OK to ride over some-ones bike. Just for that moment, he wasn’t doing anything to another human, he was just getting one in against “lycra louts” or what other newspaper headline had called someone to get some clicks. Everyone on the road should have respect for other road users. I think we should all try to be a little more Omigos, and a little less Ron Pickering

Ron Pickering

Who?

Who?

Even if the police don’t charge him, then claim for the damages. This will be a civil case so a lower degree of evidence is required but it will involve his insurance company which will lose him his no claims discount.

I’d be onto his insurers, with any luck they’ll payout quickly based on the video.

Then with any luck they’ll chase him for the full amount as policies don’t cover you for illegal driving.

@nickc You make a good point. But in my defence, they started it! (again said in jest).

The important thing is the rider in question isn’t in A&E or worse today.

Similar to the poster above, I once had a car and caravan beep, swear at me and a (small) group of other riders, then go on the wrong side of a width restriction and swing back onto the correct side of the road forcing me to brake or be side swiped by it.

I dislike dangerous driving and have no appreciation for caravans.

The important thing is the rider in question isn’t in A&E or worse today.

Yes, good point.

I’ve never understood the prosecutions brought in cases involving vehicles. In my head, based on the information in th op, there is alleged criminal damage, the vehicle has been used as a weapon to assault/attempt assault, in addition to dangerous driving. If the evidence supports the allegation why are drivers not charged with all of the offences committed?

Multiple factors, including:
– CPS lawyers are overworked/under-resourced and probably have to make a charging decision based on some summary information (unlikely they’ll even view the footage).
– police are overworked/under-resourced and so it may be easier for them to write the summary report in a way which makes them less likely to end up in protracted discussions/investigations/lengthy-trials
– pragmatically a simple motoring charge is more likely to get a simple guilty plea, resolving the case quickly, avoiding witnesses going to court, removing risk of the whole case collapsing (see overworked/under-resourced for why that might happen)
– defence much more likely to plead not guilty to the assault/criminal damage charges and blame “misjudging” (no malicious intent so if the jury believe the charge falls) – and a trial likely to take at least until 2024 to conclude at the moment!
– cynically charging at a higher level may entitle people to legal aid and make it easier for the accused to challenge the claims
– higher charges almost certain to end up in front of a jury, who (in E&W) you would only have to convince 3 of them that they were not sure beyond reasonable doubt it was an accident and the assault/criminal damage elements fail. How certain would you be that if you selected 12 people at random that 10 of them would definitely convict?
– courts, cps, police all very busy – if you have limited resources is a quick win with a 60 year old bad driver with anger issues and no previous convictions a priority compared to the drug dealer up for his 10th offence, or the guy who beats his wife everytime his football team lose, or the school teacher who has is sharing seriously dodgy images online?

If you think those things sound like political rather than criminal justice problems there’s 11 candidates for future prime minister who will all claim to be tough on crime, but I’ve not heard a single one suggest how they will resource the system, tackle the backlog etc. If you happen to be one of the niche who get to pick our next PM, do get in touch and ask them what they will do to fix this – rather than just bang the drum the judges are too soft (by following the sentencing guidelines) and lawyers are too tricky (by using the law set by parliament) and so we need tougher sentences and to leave the ECHR.

Well I did advise the rider and the guy that posted the video not to post to socials but it’s found it’s way on there and gone viral and is now part of road.cc’s blog today

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-15-july-2022-294431?fbclid=IwAR3A-cZeJQ0WuL8UyGepHsyLmSJ0wWq0hlHGF9jboPnPg7lM4lY6_u7YtiA

So judge for yourself. Yes I guess the confrontation could have been avoided but I initially posted as I was so shocked at what I saw.