Not this again.

I’m British, my wife is British and we have two boys who were born in Doha and have never lived in Britain.

This makes them British, not Qatari.

This is the reality for many expat families. Chris Frome is from British expat parents who lived in Kenya and he went to school in South Africa, hence the accent. He is therefore British.

It’s a big world out there. Some people live internationally, have a children, move to different countries, etc.

Imagine you and your British partner moved to, let’s say, Kenya. You had a little girl whilst living there.

Would you say she’s Kenyan or British?

Froome is as Kenyan as Wiggins is Belgian, being born there. Problem is, Froome has an accent, and some people are too ignorant about the modern wider world to understand this.

Rant over.

His accent is quite neutral IMHO – nothing like a stereotypical SA accent that people in the UK would connect with Africa. If you are from that Kenyan or SA ex-pat community you would prob recognise the subtleties and place him there, but he just sounds very bland English to most.

People are fans of Wiggins more than Froome just because people prefer human beings to corporate replicants. Don’t think it’s anything conspiratorial about his phony Britishness.

Froome is as Kenyan as Wiggins is Belgian, being born there.

Wiggins grew up in Britain and lives here. I think that’s very different to Froome, others may disagree.

My first thought was that it was good for racing. Interesting how everyone assumes he’s off form – the other hypothesis – that he doesn’t want to potentially end up second or third in line after Bernal or Thomas – is entirely plausible. Would you, in his position?

People are fans of Wiggins more than Froome just because people prefer human beings to corporate replicants.

He’s very much a human being from what I have seen, perhaps some viewers aren’t good at reading emotions?

People are fans of Wiggins more than Froome just because people prefer human beings to corporate replicants.

FWIW, I like Froome because he seems like a well-balanced, normal, decent kind of chap. Wiggins became too much of a parody of his own persona

Which grand tour do we think we’ll see Froome at this season? His statement says he’s still aiming to go to France, but you’d think that now there would be more leadership issues given that he can burn his bridges, so maybe they’ll not send him there.

Giro – 3 ITTs and a diminished line-up as every team is sending their big dogs the Tour – Evenepoel, Aru (Nibali?) are only contenders I know of to be targetting the Giro. A second Giro win would improve his palmares more than another Vuelta, but then Ineos are sending brand new signing and defending champion Carapaz there so have another “the road decides” situation on their hands.

So Vuelta?

Imagine you and your British partner moved to, let’s say, Kenya. You had a little girl whilst living there.

Would you say she’s Kenyan or British?

If she was born there, grew up there, lived there her whole life… then Kenyan probably. Ideally, and obviously, she should be able to say she was both. But that confuses people, doesn’t it? Just like people born, raised, and living in Britain should quite happily be able to explain to people that although they are very much British, there also share a loyalty to the country their parents came from, this upsets people who think abroad is just a holiday destination.

FWIW, I like Froome because he seems like a well-balanced, normal, decent kind of chap.

Lol yeah – nice regular chap who wears the skin of his victims as a hat.

I quite like him too, or at least think he’s an intriguing figure – absolutely ruthless hard man who manifests an amiably bland public persona.

Froome as a regular, calm bloke in the spotlight putting on zero act vs Wiggins’ put on act any day.

I quite like him too, or at least think he’s an intriguing figure – absolutely ruthless hard man who manifests an amiably bland public persona.

Agreed, and that ruthless will to win will still make him really quite dangerous in a lesser team.

Wiggins grew up in Britain and lives here. I think that’s very different to Froome, others may disagree.

I can’t remember David Millar’s Scottishness ever being questioned.

That’s the logical step isn’t it and what at least 50% of the GT main racers do, very few teams have the resources of INEOS etc, so we’ve seen Roglic, Aru, Dumoulin etc just basically grab any wheels they can and use the bunch rather than their own riders to keep them up there. It’s only when chasing that this logic falls down.

Regarding the flat/windy stages, i’m sure ISN will be as good or bad as most teams there, they’re not exactly weak.

This is what i expect. Loitering behind the main bunch for most flat stages and then looking to go with the brakes in the mountains. He could definitely win some stages – KOM maybe. He has no time trial game so that makes it very difficult to win the GC, he would need to smash the field on a mountain stage and i guess if he still had that in him then Ineos would not have let him go or someone better would have picked him up. It will make it interesting i guess.

Edit – ^^^^ “he has no time trial game”

Aye, right.

There’s talk of Nieve, Porte and the Izaguirre brothers following Froome to ISN – that’s as much climbing support as you could ask for if it happens.

He has no time trial game

You’ve haven’t watched Froome ride for say, 10 years then?

I can’t remember David Millar’s Scottishness ever being questioned.

I genuinely didn’t know he was Scottish, and I’ve read both of his books 😀

I quite like him too, or at least think he’s an intriguing figure – absolutely ruthless hard man who manifests an amiably bland public persona.

That’s why I like him, an animal on the bike, real racer and a calm measured nice guy off it. He handled being beaten by G with good grace too. Hope he gets to ride this year’s Tour de France.

I like him too. His autobiography is a good read and shows his desire and tenacity which is why he is still in the sport now after his crash.

David Millar was born whilst his parents were living on an RAF base in Malta; he lived in the UK for 10 years; then moved to be with his dad at 13 in HK; coming back to England a few days later. I don’t think it’s quite the same ex-pat life as Froome.

Otoh; I don’t have a problem with Froome (or any other athlete – Rusedski anyone 🙂 ) choosing British nationality and to compete under our flag if they are allowed to. Each to their own 🙂

Froome does seem mad keen on the elusive fifth yellow jersey, I wonder if the conversation went along the lines of ‘Let me try one more time with Bernal/G as three prong attack and best man wins, then I’ll gracefully move over and let Bernal crack on next year’.

I know theres loads of what-ifs but add up the runner up to Wiggins, that accident last year, didn’t he do collarbone twice or something too in previous attempts – he could have had 5+ by now anyway.

Don’t begrudge him a year or two final salary before retirement. Will be interesting to see who else they can attract to the new team before the next TdF

Bernal’s bloomed early, G is a useful one team player and reserve GC, and Froome’s contract is up. No sentimentality for an expensive rider. Well perhaps a little as he has a place for this year’s tour. And every rider in Ineos will have wanted that place.

I don’t see it like Movistar, because the leaders do seem to accept the “decide on the road strategy” and then get behind it. Even if they don’t like it. Big difference.

He has no time trial game

Bets he’s embarassed everytime he looks at his olympic bronze medal in the time trial…

Not this again.

I’m British, my wife is British and we have two boys who were born in Doha and have never lived in Britain.

This makes them British, not Qatari.

Well said.

I’d love to see Froome win a fifth TdF just for the expression on Bernard Hinault’s face as he shakes his hand on the podium 😈

I’m British, my wife is British and we have two boys who were born in Doha and have never lived in Britain.

Interesting, and I mean that genuinely, as I find national identity fascinating.
If they never leave Qatar are they still British? If they marry another Brit in Qatar and have kids there are the kids British?
I find it very interesting as it also plays into race, identity and all kinds of other things.

Anyway, back to Froome.
If he gets a good group of domestiques he will challenge but won’t win. And the names being linked are closer the end of their careers than the start, Nieve and Porte are good riders but neither were are of the calibre INEOS have.

He handled being beaten by G with good grace too.

Atherton’s got a road bike? :-0

This makes them British

Absolutely!

not Qatari

Why not?

When the pressure was on Dave Brailsford over the contents of the Jiffy Bag, Froome was very guarded in his comments and wouldn’t come out in support of his team boss. I bet Brailsford remembered that when considering a contract renewal. Good luck to Froome, but the team counts for a lot in the tour and it’ll be tough. I’m also concerned about his propensity to crash.

Why do you think he wanted to stay?

go with the brakes in the mountains

He’s not going to win like that

My take is that he is no longer considered top dog at Ineos so is off and they are not upset to see him go. As others have said they have plenty of options in the team and I cant see Froome wanting to start a TDF as a domestique in the future.

And having played no small part in his overall success, I rather like him and his racing style. Not my favourite rider, but a great Nonetheless.

A few people have mentioned his ‘crashiness’ on here. Has he actually crashed any more than any other major GT contenders?

I find it very interesting as it also plays into race, identity and all kinds of other things.

Only for people who like to identify people by the colour of their skin – who consider race above all else. Your parentage defines your nationality as well where you were born maybe, and if you decide to emigrate somewhere and take up citizenship. All or any of the 3. if you’re born in another country then you might have the option for dual nationality or to claim the nationality of your country of birth depending upon the political agreements between the two countries. My brothers son was born in Russia and he automatically got dual citizenship despite only living there for the first couple of years of his life. And when he adopted the Russian son from a previous relationship of his Russian wife, he got British nationality too. Or if you emigrate to a country then you take up that nationality…would you deny the Windrush people their British nationality because there were not born or raised in britain??

Wiggins grew up in Britain and lives here. I think that’s very different to Froome, others may disagree.

Ah so your nationality now depends soley on where you grew up and not the nationality of your parents or country of birth? Crikey this is getting complicated. So since Andy Murray sodded off to Spain at 15 to learn his tennis craft then he should really be Spanish? Konta grew up and played Tennis in Australia, so she’s really an Aussie? and no doubt if you scratch the surface of alot of brits in sport or outside of sport you’ll find they have international histories. People who work in the company I work for are career ex-pats…moving to a different country every 5 years. Their kids have lived in upto 3 or 4 different countries at least by the time they are 18 and often never lived in the UK. I wonder what nationality they should adopt??

People are fans of Wiggins more than Froome just because people prefer human beings to corporate replicants.

Wiggins? He’s a deeply unpleasant person. I massively respect his sporting achievements – unbelievable. but he’s not a very nice person. But most people at the top levels of sport are not very nice people. They’ve had to be selfish and beligerant to get where they have got to.

Good for Froome. He’s clearly not going to have the command of the Ineos team with so much competition. He’d be too much of a risk to be their main man for the TDF or another grand tour. He’s humble and mature enough to know the score and know that nobody is bigger than the team (unlike wiggins) and know’s instinctively when his time is up. I’m sure it was very amicable and everyone parted as friends. Now he’s just doing it for himself and paying into his pension pot, so good on him and a great asset for a new team…someone who can lead and impart his experience. Shame he didn’t get his 5th TDF, but for me, 2012 was his too, even though I fully understand Team Sky’s decisions in 2012 in backing Wiggins, Froome could have won that TDF too…he was in better form than Wiggins, especially in the mountains, and if he got the support he could have taken it. But that’s team sports for you.

I think on the nationality thing; there’s a whole continuum from “I was born when we were abroad on a family trip” to “I can still technically get a british passport because…”

I’ve got friends who have settled in Australia; their kids think of themselves as Aussies; despite being born in the UK. It swings both ways I guess 🙂

Ah so your nationality now depends soley on where you grew up and not the nationality of your parents or country of birth?

Did you struggle to understand what I meant by “others may disagree”?

lunge
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Anyway, back to Froome.
If he gets a good group of domestiques he will challenge but won’t win. And the names being linked are closer the end of their careers than the start, Nieve and Porte are good riders but neither were are of the calibre INEOS have.

I’ve no idea where Porte’s head/form would be but you’d struggle to find a better all-round mountain domestique than Nieve.

ICA and their owner have ambitions.
Froome is clearly ambitious.
Riders at the top don’t move without a plan for themselves and the team.

The plan this year was Dan Martin, next a team built around Chris Froome. I’d be watching which DSs /support staff and other riders they employ. There’s no way Froome’s gone there without being made a promise of resources and plan for the team. September/ October will be when we see the main transfers this year so we might have to wait a bit to see what the plan is.

Good golly. A lot of people getting excited about nationalities aren’t there.

Wiggins? He’s a deeply unpleasant person

I saw him do his live show, laste year, and he came across as quite grounded and self aware, but presumably you know him quite well to have that view

I saw him do his live show, laste year, and he came across as quite grounded and self aware, but presumably you know him quite well to have that view

Did you not realise Froome-dog had a secret STW login?

Interested to see how he gets on.