“choice at the end of life” Parliamentary debate

Will just leave this here for your perusal:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241003004039/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/28/nhs-sedate-downs-syndrome-patient-for-covid-jab-mother/

So what does that have to do with assisted dying with explicit consent?

Shitposting to try and support some point you haven’t even given yet is a particularly strange way of responding

The link isn’t working @cinnamongirl

Worked for me, looks like something went badly wrong with trying to give a covid jab. It shouldn’t have happened.

Clearly the antivaxxers are getting in on the assisted dying area now,  maybe they think they will be assisted to die against their wishes?

I’m kind of against the idea.

Morally I think the case for assisted dying is probably undeniable. However, I think we should be very careful drawing up legislation. As soon as you say ‘this group of people with these special circumstances can end their lives’ then you open up the way for other groups to apply to the courts for the same rights. The experience of Canada is useful in this. Some folks have said that worries about extending the rules are a ‘slippery slope’ argument, and Justin Trudeau even said at the time “simply isn’t something that ends up happening.” But, in reality that’s exactly what’s happened. First the rules that said that death must be “reasonably foreseeable” was removed, and a steady stream of media reports of the State granting access to assisted dying to people who didn’t fit the original criteria started emerging . Like this

Associated Press reported on the case of Alan Nichols. Nichols had lost his hearing in childhood, and had suffered a stroke, but for the most part was able to live independently. In June 2019, at age 61, he was hospitalized out of concern that he might be suicidal. He urged his brother Gary to “bust him out” of the facility as soon as possible. But within a month, he applied for a physician-assisted death, citing hearing loss as his only medical condition. A nurse practitioner also described Nichols’s vision loss, frailty, history of seizures, and general “failure to thrive.” The hospital told the AP that his request for a lethal injection was valid, and his life was ended. “Alan was basically put to death,” his brother told the AP.

And

In The New Atlantis, Alexander Raikin described the case of Rosina Kamis, who had fibromyalgia and chronic leukemia, along with other mental and physical illnesses. She presented these symptoms to the MAID assessors and her death was approved. Meanwhile, she wrote in a note evidently meant for those to whom she had granted power of attorney: “Please keep all this secret while I am still alive because … the suffering I experience is mental suffering, not physical. I think if more people cared about me, I might be able to handle the suffering caused by my physical illnesses alone.” She was put to death on September 26, 2021, via a lethal injection, at the age of 41.

Like I said, I don’t have a moral argument with those in terrible pain that they shouldn’t be able to end their lives, how can I? But Canada’s experience is that once this is legal, the genie is out and it’s very difficult, if not impossible to stopper the bottle again. (In fact Canada are currently legislating to loosen the criteria again) If you say that ultimately individual rights triumphs everything, and those who wish to must be able to end their lives, then this is the ultimate expression of that, and one that should be discussed along side any proposal.

Assisted dying with the appropriate controls should be considered a human right.

It really is that simple. The detail is in the controls.

This. I’m a bit shell-shocked at the moment as my dad got his terminal cancer diagnosis two days ago. Talking to my sister last night, we can reconcile ourselves that our dad, who we love dearly, is going to die shortly. That comes to us all.

What we’re living in dread of is we’re also aware HOW he’s going to die. We know full well that what is coming is going to be absolutely horrific for all of us, most of all him.

He’s already in severe pain and on morphine to try and make it bearable. It’s not. We know this is only going to get worse. Far, far worse. I don’t want to see him suffer and I don’t want my mum watch him go through what he’s now going to go through. Because it’s going to be severe but not necessarily quick, but we know there will only be one outcome.

So given the singularity of that outcome, it’s madness that the only option available is the worst possible one

Will just leave this here for your perusal:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241003004039/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/28/nhs-sedate-downs-syndrome-patient-for-covid-jab-mother/

Nothing to do with the assisted living conversation, however reads like a disabled adult living in a care setting cared for by professionals/state not “Christian” Parent and has a needle phobia, to protect the professionals from covid he needs to be jabbed, they’re trying to sedate him to do it. No different to my nephew who has a needle phobia and was sedated for a nail removal not so long ago.

I 100% support this being implemented in England, the 5 rules New Zealand have make sense. I recall a scene in 3 body problem where a cognitive patient had to give themselves the lethal dose via a serious of repetitive and lengthy varying multiple choice questions, a great idea to give the dose following on from the 5 rules.

I’ve personally seen 3 grandparents pass with Dementia, 1 grand parent and 2 aunts from Cancer, horrible every one of them, something that no country should subject its people too. Time to mail my MP giving my support.

I’m for the idea and if it doesn’t pass before I’ve decided I’ve had enough (spms) then Its easy enough for me to get my hands on enough heroin to finish me off at a time and place of my choosing

My sil had ms & had got to the point where she still had the use of one arm, but otherwise incapable, but because you have to administer your own drugs at dignitas she had to leave us whilst she still had that capability which was sometime before she really wanted to ? she just didn’t want to end up without ability to move at all but with ms she didn’t know when that time would come. Thankfully although my brother, nephew & myself broke the law, the police were very good about it & the CPS see no public good in dragging anyone through the courts so at least one side of the law sees sense, sadly though not that many have the money or bravery to go to dignitas & as Esther Rantzen alluded to she is scared that her family would be prosecuted if they accompany her to dignitas when the time comes.

If offering assisted death for people with terminal illnesses opens a debate about offering assisted death in other situations, then we should have that debate and extend the right where society agrees it is appropriate. The possibility that the right might be extended is not a valid argument for preventing assisted death in any form.

I think that the right to life should also include the right for an individual to choose how that life should end, and a caring society should allow people do that safely and with dignity, where it is appropriate.

As several people have pointed out in this thread, the way we currently force some people to handle end of life in the UK is simply cruel. In those situations, the current regulations are not for the benefit of the individual who is suffering.