[Closed] Chain lube fetishists assemble !

Your kids aren't going to be happy with their chips tonight.

Wouldnt it be healthier to use the air fryer so you only have to use a small teaspoon of wax??

What about the melted blue plastic, won't that look crap?
Still I would be interested to see how long it lasts on the chain and how rusty the chain goes after a couple of biblical wet and muddy rides!

It looks like a very long chain. Recumbent?

APF

Ive used putoline for years, it lasts longer than anything else by such a long margin its not worth keeping track, if you avoid actuall biblical rain it can last most of the winter!

Nope, just did all my bikes at once (road, fat, xc, tourer, SS)

Hah, genius!

How did this go? In the absence of TJ, we're desperate for a Putoline evangelist!

In the style of a high school scienece write up:

Equipment:
Lidl mini fryer, £16
Putoline Wax, one large tin.

Method:
Scoop out wax into the fryer, easiest to do with a wooden spatula of all things.

Set fryer to melt the wax, the instructions recommended 70C, higher worked faster obviously as the thermostat cut out less but required constant stirring to prevent it smoking on the hot bottom of the fryer.

It did smell above 170, but didn't seem to burn unless you turned it up too hot too quickly at which point the stuff at the bottom overheated.

Results:
The first chain which went in on top of the solid wax while it melted worked well, subsequent chains I don't think I let them get hot enough so more excess wax stuck to the chain.

I've not ridden any enough to really say if it alters how long it lasts, but I can't see why it would be any less than putoline normally lasts, which is usually a VERY long time, take your best lube and multiply it by 4 at the very least. It wouldn't be the first winter if I don't lube the SS chain between now and Christmas despite it getting weekly use in the mud.

Positives:
Less faff than heating it on the trangia and much less chance of knocking it over.

Less mess.

Negatives:
The usual putoline stuff, some faff, some mess, some smell.

Improvements for next time:
Hooks in the roof for hanging treated chains
Silicone oven gloves for handling hot chains rather than BBQ tools.
Wipe excess off hot chain with workshop towels (and gloves).

Conclusion:
I likely won't ever use any other lube ever again unless I do some multi day touring in biblical rain and need to top it up on the go. But as mentioned above, it still lasts longer than conventional lube.

I've just caught myself studying the pic and wondering which chain goes on which bike, assessing by colour/contamination.

[i]*turns off internet*[/i]

I've just caught myself studying the pic and wondering which chain goes on which bike, assessing by colour/contamination.

Those are the treated chains 😉 Putoline never quite looks clean as it's black and solid.

And FYI:
Top: New Shimano chain for the tourer.
Top left: SRAM 1031 Fatty
Top right: KMC gold 9s for the SS
Bottom left: Mavic 10s road chain
Bottom right: SRAM 1051 from the XC bike.

Which is wierd, because if anyone asks I recommend Shimano 11s chains, and KMC track/SS/bmx chains for SS. I went through a phase of using whatever was in the spares box at the start of the year, hence nothing is what I'd buy out of choice!

That's genius, I do it with a camping stove in the garage, every time i do it I expect to end up looking like the phantom of the opera...

In the style of a high school scienece write up:

Have you tried a Wippermann?

I'd been planning it for a while, but just moved house and now have power in the garage rather than it being 30m away in a separate block. I was going to get one off ebay for 99p or freecycle, but it happened to be in Lidl last week and cheap enough that it wasn't worth the hassle of waiting around for a free one.

Even if you view it as £40 spent on chain lube, it's still only slightly more than buying a couple of years worth of £4 bottles of wet lube, and it'll last a very long time.

Cheapest option would be one of these £10 camping hobs, but £6 more, no gas bottles to buy and no naked flames I think makes the fryer a winner (and the basket saves fishing for the chain in the hot oil with pliers.

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcTz4VQBMDX9ee9-k1jVtOvS8L5Q7uCNWIp5C9sOS21eOTnDSBWlZBQjvlBpWP6M434Kp4ZsHtQ&usqp=CAE [/img]

Why not heat up the tin on the hob (not too hot now 🙂 ) and dunk the chains in, that's what the motorbike guys do?

put some wire through the chains and hang on the side, then they can be lifted out and hung up to drain excess back in?

I put a bit of string through it, with the powerlinks on, makes the fishing easy. If I did it in the house I'd be made to regret it, so, out in teh garage with the camping gaz.

Why not heat up the tin on the hob (not too hot now ) and dunk the chains in, that's what the motorbike guys do?

put some wire through the chains and hang on the side, then they can be lifted out and hung up to drain excess back in?

That's the proper way to do it, but assumes you're single and don't give a crap about your kitchen or the lingering smell of sulphur in the house for days. I also worried about the temperature, it seems to work better the hotter it gets, but at some point it'll boil or catch fire, or the chain will have some water or petrol on it, etc.

I could leave 5 chains in the wax (warm it upto 190, switch it off and it was still liquid an hour later) for 5 minutes whilst I go and make a cuppa.

Some biblical levels of faffage there

Chain cleaner:
1 - clean chain with degreaser
2 - scrub cassette and chainring clean (most time consuming step by far)
3 - hose of degreaser
4 - wipe dry with paper towel
5 - displace water with WD40 and wipe off excess, leave to dry
6 - lube
7 - re apply lube a few hours later if using dry lube

Parrafin -
1) remove chain,
2) place in jar
3) scrub cassette
etc
etc

Combined with it lasting many times longer, and TJ had some data on chain wear that showed chains lasting around 3x longer even on the tandem. Even a slight increase in faff is paid back time over. Compare doing it once now and it taking 30min including melting the wax, Vs 10 min twice a week after every off-road ride between now and Christmas.

There is an undeniable element of faff, danger, potential mess and smell, but it is also an order of magnitude a better chain lube than anything else.

Have you tried a Wippermann?

I did once, nothing unusual, I only use Shimano because I thought anecdotally SRAM seem to wear quickly, and one of the US magazines did some long term testing with 10s chains and found shimano to outlast both the older 9speed chains and SRAM 10s (apparently shimano built some new chain making equipment for 10s) and I use KMC for the SS because they last long enough for it to be a non-issue how long they last and I've never managed to snap one or have one come off (unlike SRAM PC1).

Caveat: Plural of anecdote is not data.

Those are the treated chains

Yeah, I understood that part. On closer inspection (and armed with extra info) I can see it's merely shadows that make two of the bottom three look slightly dirtier and the gold one just looked rusty but I get why now.

🙂

I also do mine on a camping stove, balanced outside on the BBQ that way if it does topple its contained. I've kept it in the tin. I use old gear cable thro the top link, when I first used it I naively put a tie wrap through it.

I'm coming to the end of my stockpile of Rock'n'Roll Extreme.
This looks likely to be the next one I'll try but new bike is 1x11, so I'll need to find a re-usable quicklink for 11 speed.
Any recommendations?

I did once, nothing unusual

Got two last year and another earlier this year they don't seem to require any lube as such just an occasional polish. Lubing actually seems to make them worse

Ah well carry on

Ummmm... aren't those wax-based lubes a bit stiff in cold weather? Okay on a motorbike but it would be a marginal loss on a pedal bike.

I've experimented with Waxoyle in paraffin but it didn't work very well so I went back to Finish Line. Wish I could find out the formulation though because I'm certain we're being royally ripped off.

Ummmm... aren't those wax-based lubes a bit stiff in cold weather? Okay on a motorbike but it would be a marginal loss on a pedal bike.

Same as UBS, you can feel it (and it might skip or ghost shift) for the first couple of pedal revolutions where the links have stuck together, then it breaks down and un-noticeable.

Got two last year and another earlier this year they don't seem to require any lube as such just an occasional polish. Lubing actually seems to make them worse

They do various versions, I just used the bog standard one. The stainless ones (or even titanium) won't rust, but SS galls horribly so I'd never run it without lube!

I've experimented with Waxoyle in paraffin but it didn't work very well so I went back to Finish Line. Wish I could find out the formulation though because I'm certain we're being royally ripped off.

I suspect you could use parafin wax on a push bike with few or no issues, putoline seems to be a high sulphur wax with added graphite (and probably other stuff too).

The sulphur bonds to the metal and stops it being displaced under pressure, the graphite provides the friction reduction. If you want to be really geeky its a sulphur-phosphorus compound that reacts with the iron, forms a softer compound which then doesn't microweld under the extream pressure created when microscopically rough surfaces come into contact through the thin film of lubricant. This is why WD40 is so rubbish, it actually lubricates allowing the surfaces to move together, but forms such a thin film that they can effectively lock together, leading to more friction.

So, as I'm being thick, you don't clean the chain before bunging it in the tin / deep fat fryer / saucepan etc.?

Go on then... where's the best place to buy...?

globalti - Member

Ummmm... aren't those wax-based lubes a bit stiff in cold weather? Okay on a motorbike but it would be a marginal loss on a pedal bike.

Not that I can tell. But even a marginal increase in drag wouldn't be a big deal compared to how effective they are on a winter ride- I can do a day's muddy hell and come back with still-perfect shifting and chain retention, there's nothing else ime that gets close to that.

Or plan b...

Apply UBS to clean chain and allow to drip dry, lightly spray before and after riding (20 seconds max) - transmission always smooth and shiny, no faff, minimal cost but I guess there's no "man cred" due to lack of fire, stench and self-harm potential.

Northwind, I've found it a bit stiff on occasions first thing on winter rides but it soon gives a bit and as you say the wear gains are outweighing the wear so it's an acceptable trade off.

I've personally found that it works extremely well after a few rides let down a tad with an application of R ' N' R blue, but most stuff is better with that lube anyhow,

Hill dodger, I don't want to appear thick but I prob will, how do you personally apply the UBS because I can't get it to work. I used it last year on my Full Suss bike and it sure as Shoite kept the cassette and chain clean as well as the frame in places where the kack gathers but I'm not sure about lubricating claims. My chain wore quite quick and the teeth on the rear cassette got hooks on the rings way quicker than usual. I used it in the Alps this year and although it was dry and dusty it just made the chain sound like a conveyor belt.

I'm not sure if the ooooooh looks clean so it's working phenomenon has any effect on lubing up a chain. Yours however sounds like it cleans and lubes?

I removed the chain and hung up on nail, sprayed liberally and let it drip dry. Fitted chain and just give a quick spray before/after riding - 4000ish miles on road bike (ultegra 10 sp), 2000 on mtb (Hope chainring/jockeys, 1x9 sram cassette/mech/chain) - no signs of tooth wear, 1 new chain so far on each.
Must be lucky with local conditions which are loamy rather than gritty.

I'm finding that a 15 mile loop consisting woodland loam, quarry dust or grinding paste depending on cloud bursts and it's gone.

The last attempt as I was changing chains anyway as I always run 2, I put it in a bag and left it soak shaking it occasionally before re fitting and wiping residue off before storing away.
Should I then take it out to ride and then re apply as I set off? Is that the trick.

If you have a method that works for you then I'd stick with it, I ride pretty much every day so maybe the regular applications have accumulated and that's the "trick".
My mtb cleaning method is just wet sponge soaked in washing up liquid followed by splooshing with a bucket of warm water, bounce dry and spray with UBS.
Road bike gets a wipe down with some banana flavoured dry cleaner with just the rims/brakes getting any serious cleaning, pedals spun and chain sprayed.
Works for me 🙂

TBH I found UBS worked exactly as well as I expected a lube which washes off with water to work. Fine in the dry, useless in the wet. I only had a little bottle so I couldn't test it extensively though, but I followed the instructions and it just didn't work

Or plan b...

Apply UBS to clean chain and allow to drip dry, lightly spray before and after riding (20 seconds max) - transmission always smooth and shiny, no faff, minimal cost but I guess there's no "man cred" due to lack of fire, stench and self-harm potential.

I bought a couple of bottles of UBS when it was on offer and found the same as northwind.

My method was to decant it into a small bottle and apply as a normal lube until the chain was saturated. leave it to dry overnight and apply again to build it up.

Lasted about 50 miles in the dry before the chain sounded dry. For balance, Muc-off dry would last about 150miles before it sounded dry.

Used it once on the commuter in the rain and it washed off before i got home (2 miles).

It's OK for short rides in the dry, but it's useless in any kind of wet riding or high mileage.

Stops crap sticking but that's about it.

I'm not biased, I've probably got £20 of each of putoline, UBS, various wet and dry lubes in the garage/car. I'm not just endorsing what I bought. Putoline is by far and away the best chain lube bar none.

UBS was fine for short summer rides, but it was even more of a faff than putoline.

The only lubes I'm tempted to give a go are the fenwicks 'stealth' lubes to see if they live upto their claims on the road bike. Although the description sounds like a typical EP lubricant and the color implies it's got graphite in there, so I'm guessing it's solvent based but otherwise similar to putoline anyway.

Clobber - Member
Go on then... where's the best place to buy...?

Looks like the cheapest online including postage, might be cheaper in a motorbike shop selling off road stuff.
http://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/basket

Fryer was just from Lidl, but any 'mini' fryer would do the trick, just needs to hold about a litre of wax/oil. Cheaper's better as you'll never want to use it for food again!

Good to know as I've a big new tin of putoline and a cheap hot plate in the shed ready to do the winter trainer and commuter bikes.

I used UBS a fair bit on the summer road / race bike and it's been ok. Decanted it into a dropper bottle and dribbled some on the chain after most rides. Seems to work ok. Most rides under a couple of hours though.

Might go back to Squirt for the race bike. Still a bit of a faff and needs a regular top up but based on use on the TT bike it's pretty quick. I'd like to try some of the Molten Speedwax too but that seems US only (is it any different to the putoline?)

Btw, what's the putoline like in winter xc conditions? Does it get messy quickly? Does it still work ok?

Btw, what's the putoline like in winter xc conditions? Does it get messy quickly? Does it still work ok?

It's where it works best. It always looks 'messy' because it's black, like a road chain after a few weeks commuting, but it's dry so stuff doesn't stick to it, and what does, doesn't seem to reduce it's effectiveness.

The only rides I've ever managed to wash it off were those rides where nothing works due to biblical rain. My winter SS goes at least 200 miles between lubes (100% off road, in the mud), usually double that.

mrblobby - Member

Btw, what's the putoline like in winter xc conditions? Does it get messy quickly? Does it still work ok?

It does get dirty but it doesn't really matter, the main thing is the wax sticks and keeps crap out of the rollers. It's kind of uncanny tbf, I did an inners enduro where my chain and chain device were absolutely blocked solid with slime, the chain was literally running through a chunk of mud the size of my fist, it didn't miss a beat.

Thanks chaps. I'll give it a go on the xc bikes too then.

I think the big downsides, apart from the immolation thing, is that you can't really top it up- so if you're thinking "mmm, maybe that could do with some attention" there's no option but a full clean and relube, or a bodgy topup with another lube.

And for road use, it's not that good at stopping rust. So on the commuter I top coat it with old engine oil, looks incredibly awful, lasts for months.

I think the big downsides, apart from the immolation thing, is that you can't really top it up- so if you're thinking "mmm, maybe that could do with some attention" there's no option but a full clean and relube, or a bodgy topup with another lube.

Good point that, though I usually rotate a couple of chains so should have one to pop on if it's looking a bit dry.

proutster
So, as I'm being thick, you don't clean the chain before bunging it in the tin / deep fat fryer / saucepan etc.?

Most seem to suggest a clean and then a putoline bath.

Sorry Proutster, I thought that had been covered. I deep clean mine- into a tub of paraffin for a shoogle. Never tried it the other way but I figure half the point of a melty wax is that it gets in everywhere, so cleaning out first helps with that. Also I don't want my tin of wax to be full of crap.

Cheers mr blobby and Northwind!

Deep clean first of all it is then!

Mine sometimes just goes straight in the wax unless it's filthy, putting water into the oil at 190C would be a very bad idea so washing in white spirit/paraffin if nothing else makes sure it's water-free. And it only takes a minute as the chains off anyway.

There's a bit of grit in the bottom the tin (now in the fryer) but it's never come out stuck to the chain.

Not sure about the used engine oil idea, I found if I tried to top it up with oil it just turned to a viscous mixture on the chain which eventually washed off. Otherwise it's not an issue though IME, I'd probably re-apply it as necessary (every couple of months on average unless I was going away for the weekend and was giving the bike a once over or doing a lot of miles on one bike). I think putoline recommend topping it up with their spray wax but I've not tried that.

Part of the benefit is not having to top it up anyway. Not being able to top it up after a ride is definitely compensated for by not having to top it up for 2 months.

Mine sometimes just goes straight in the wax unless it's filthy, putting water into the oil at 190C would be a very bad idea so washing in white spirit/paraffin if nothing else makes sure it's water-free. And it only takes a minute as the chains off anyway.

Usually stick my chain in the oven for a bit after washing to make sure it's dry. Someone will probably be along in a minute to tell me this is a really bad idea 🙂 (probably Mrs Blobby!)