Cashless conspiracies

Back when contactless was in short pants you’d to enter your PIN every few transactions.  I can’t remember the last time I had to do so outside of a cash machine.

I don’t doubt that for some folk banks are a lifeline, however I highly doubt that it’s “many.”  My nearest branch is two towns away and it’s open something pointless like 10am-4pm four days a week.  The many then presumably being the unemployed and pensioners.  The last time I used a branch was to pay in a cheque addressed to “the estate of [my deceased mum],” thinking it would be awkward.  They took the cheque, walked me to the paying-in machine and processed it there, I could have done that myself.

The last chequebook we got was a big fat one.  Maybe the idea was “that should do you until cheques are no longer a thing”.

Bloody hell were at Beadnell Towers?

Black Swan.

For some reason, I’m not feeling comfortable adding my bank card details to the Wallet option on the phone.

The wallet is significantly more secure than having your bank card stolen.

Wallet is heavily encrypted and behind FaceID (a LOT more secure than a 4 digit bank card pin). Your physical card being nicked from your pocket or the back of your phone can be tapped away, instantly…

I work in a shop, about 80% of transactions are card. We get charged to deposit cash at the Post Office / transfer to bank – the fee is about the same as a card transaction.

One of the local chippies only accepts cash – everyone knows it’s a fiddle

Have any conspiracy theories been shared yet?

I heard one a few years ago that your transactions would be monitored by a big computer and if you were trying to by something that the government doesn’t want you to have (it was the individual you, not society at large) the system would prevent you from buying it.

it was all connected to social credit and if you didn’t behave as they wanted you to your ability to buy stuff would be limited.

I can believe that…not only is it the computer but it also seems to be the shop staff and my partner…all say I can’t have the shiny new toy…something about card declined due to lack of funds…

Have any conspiracy theories been shared yet?

Like all conspiracy theories, it collapses in on itself at “why?”  I’m sure that ‘They’ will be fapping themselves raw to discover that today I bought cat food and a bag of frozen chips.

My partner’s sister veers into these things occasionally, she was a full-on denier during the pandemic.  Even when she caught it and was bedridden she wouldn’t admit it, “it’s just the lurgy.” What?  She posted one time on Facebook about chemtrails, “can’t we just have one day where they’re not spraying us with stuff?”  All other arguments aside, why?  If “the government” wanted us chemically altered (again, why?) then spraying it from the air is a terrible way of distributing a pathogen, far better to contaminate the water supply.  I suggested this to her, apparently they do that too.  So… they’re spraying it from planes in order to… what, catch all the people who don’t use water?  I explained how steam works and was met with “well, we all have our opinions.”  Well, no, you have an opinion, I attended high school Physics.

it was all connected to social credit and if you didn’t behave as they wanted you to your ability to buy stuff would be limited.

That was China, as far as I’m aware none of us live in China. Problem solved.

Has nobody mentioned the WEF yet?

I heard one a few years ago that your transactions would be monitored by a big computer and if you were trying to by something that the government doesn’t want you to have (it was the individual you, not society at large) the system would prevent you from buying it.

Yup that’s a common  one, I mean there is no other way they could ration items.

If it’s an independent/ small local place, I’ll usually ask them if better cash or card. And they mostly say ‘doesn’t matter’.

One of the local curry houses sometimes ask if we can play cash, as they pay some of their junior staff by the hour / each night. It’s more likely that Nogel Farage is a hard working honest grafting servant to his constituency, than that lot ever appears in the books (remember thats also less employer NI paid to stop the NHS collapsing – the youngsters wont be reaching the tax thresholds).

What does **** me off is when builders, plumbers, etc do cash to avoid putting some through the books, they use that for going on the lash or buying expensive bikes without their Mrs knowing how much they REALLY spent on a Santa Cruz.

I have to pay tax and NI, they need to too (most of them already have a lower tax and near feckall NI compared to me as they are set up as limited companies) ?

The wallet is significantly more secure than having your bank card stolen.

Wallet is heavily encrypted and behind FaceID (a LOT more secure than a 4 digit bank card pin). Your physical card being nicked from your pocket or the back of your phone can be tapped away, instantly…

It is more than just encryption. The actual card details aren’t added to your phone at all. It uses a token that is unique to the device. The token is passed to Visa/Mastercard who look up your actual card details and pass them to your bank.

Much more secure than your plastic card.

Genuine question, before card payment was the norm, how much of your time did cash handling take? Cashing up, taking it to be deposited, getting change etc. what would that be in terms of an hourly rate over a year?

If you do it properly and assuming you’re not a sole trader with no staff.

Cash count and reconcile to till/EPOS output.

Sort money into bundles for banking

Check till float especially coins is adequate

Record bankings in accounting system

Take cash to bank,

Obtain additional cash float coins etc if required.

Then factor in if it is not the owner cashing up there should be two people present at all times to reduce theft and fraud risk.

What’s your cash in transit insurance limit for taking it to the bank? Do you need to send two people? Can you even take it yourself or do you need a secure carrier?

What’s the risk to your staff from being mugged for £5k in cash?  How does that sit with your h&s obligations?

How much can you hold on site and what are the requirements for the safe?

Card fees are probably quite good value in comparison, lower risk of fraud and theft and less options for evading tax.

What does **** me off is when builders, plumbers, etc do cash to avoid putting some through the books, they use that for going on the lash or buying expensive bikes without their Mrs knowing how much they REALLY spent on a Santa Cruz.

But to balance things out a bit you can buy your shiny new bike on a cycle to work scheme where you save a good % off the price and the builders most probably can’t.

But that’s a legal agreement with the government.

Back when contactless was in short pants you’d to enter your PIN every few transactions. I can’t remember the last time I had to do so outside of a cash machine.

I’m not sure what things will trigger a PIN request but I see it a lot when tourists are using their card for the 1st time on their holiday, so I guess location must be a trigger?

I haven’t had to enter a PIN for months but I tend to use my card in the same locations.

Does anyone know how and when it will ask for a PIN?

Yeah different location, different type of purchase, not used in a longtime and a few others. I used mine to buy a car 2 weeks ago, since then it asked about 4 or 5 times after for my pin.

On closer inspection a lot of the big ranters on Twitter about cashless conspiracy seem to be white van men. The ones who also rant about ‘their’ taxes being spent on immigrants and scroungers.

Those being the taxes they desperately try to avoid paying by insisting on taking cash in hand and only grudgingly any other means of payment.

I’m not sure what things will trigger a PIN request but I see it a lot when tourists are using their card for the 1st time on their holiday, so I guess location must be a trigger?

Purely a guess, but it could be that they’ve set it up specifically for the trip and it’s the first time they’ve used it?  “What payment method for holidays?” isn’t an unusual STW thread, there was one a week or two ago.

Purely a guess, but it could be that they’ve set it up specifically for the trip and it’s the first time they’ve used it?  “What payment method for holidays?” isn’t an unusual STW thread, there was one a week or two ago.

discovered a month ago that my Revolut card – which I got solely for travel – wouldn’t work contactless or via apple wallet abroad because it was georestricted as default. Could turn this off in the app.

Entering the pin overruled this.

Unsure about the pin, I get asked for it if I use the card more than 3 times a day – same place or different places. I don’t mind as I reckon it is just an extra security check to make sure it is me using the card (or the person who is using it knows the pin, so less chance of it being pinched).

I travel all over with with work. Generally I don’t get many PIN requests. Normally it appears if I make a few in quick succession .

I’ve had a few conversations with people who drone on about the anti-cash conspiracy, everyone I’ve asked, ‘so, do you only use cash and never a card then?” Every single  one sheepishly replied “nah, just use my card it’s easier innit!”

the biggest thing I’ve found in favour of cash is budgeting, psychologically it’s harder to hand over larger amounts of cash for impulse buys than it is to just wave a piece of plastic or your phone, I would always think a bit longer about parting with cash, which is why I’m always skint now!!!

I travel all over with with work. Generally I don’t get many PIN requests.

So for you it’s normal behaviour.

Does anyone know how and when it will ask for a PIN?

its down to fraud rules that vary bank-to-bank. Out-of-pattern behaviour is part of it (so a big transaction when you normally only do pennies, or a location thats very different from your usual), but so are known merchants who get a lot of fraudulent spend. There’s no hard-and-fast rules, and it depends on the bank’s appetite for risk.

interestingly, the US supports contactless + pin, which I’ve never seen over here. Makes the flow a bit less jarring for the customer.

source : I’ve worked in a large, multinational credit-card company for 21 years.

quote]Back when contactless was in short pants you’d to enter your PIN every few transactions. I can’t remember the last time I had to do so outside of a cash machine.[/quote]

Happens quite a lot of a friend who has Alzheimer’s and consequently causes him problems as he can’t remember his PIN, so has to carry around a lot of cash just in case.

Going to switch to a smart phone (the Doro) so he can use that contactless, as I assume that relies on the phone authentication to verify the card isn’t stolen.

Does anyone know how and when it will ask for a PIN?

It seems to be random – I’ve got a Zettle card reader at work. Sometimes it goes for weeks without asking customer for PIN. Other weeks it wants virtually everybodies PIN!

As for those using ‘transaction fees cost’ as an excuse not to have a card reader – I took approx. £2500 in card payments in June – the transaction fee on that amount was £44.00! So bugger-all in the scheme of running a business.

I do like cash though – a wodge of cash in your hand is something tangible! And I’ve always got a few hundred to hand.

US supports contactless + pin

Does that mean you tap your card but then have to put your pin in?

Banks want you to use cards – it makes them money for you to use cards, cash transactions loose them money + it’s in your pocket, not being used for them to make money.

I’ve always been shouted down on here for being pro cash…

But I’ll say again what I’ve said before. As a small business owner (less than 300k turnover). Cash works better for us, we have zero fees on cash and actually get paid to deposit it. We’ve seen a dramatic rise in Cardiff transactions and costs and decrease in cash over the last 4 years. These costs get passed to the customer.

Roughly 1.5% of every card transaction is going to a bank or card service provider – so that’s 1.5% of your paycheck every year going to a bank, for almost nothing in return.

Cash works better for us, we have zero fees on cash and actually get paid to deposit it.

Which bank pays you to deposit cash?

If you are turning over £300k, majority in cash, then that’s quite a lot of work, counting, sorting, depositing and keeping a float going.

@Drac.

I’m not 100% what you’re asking. But yes. Me travelling all over the UK (generally Scotland based through). Generally I have no issues but it happens more often when I’m away and visit a few different types of shops in quick succession.

Last month I had jobs in dingwall, Elgin then mallaig over a couple of days.  If you overlaid my purchases with the railway network it would probably make sense. Otherwise it appears to be random locations.

Does anyone know how and when it will ask for a PIN?

In my case, go to Tesco – every time!

One benefit of being asked regularly is that it helps stop you forgetting the number

Does that mean you tap your card but then have to put your pin in?

correct – but only sometimes (the rest of the time just tapping works). basically as the extra step of auth, instead of putting your card in and re-doing the whole thing you just whack your pin in on the screen. Works nicely.

But I’ll say again what I’ve said before. As a small business owner (less than 300k turnover). Cash works better for us, we have zero fees on cash and actually get paid to deposit it

Isn’t that because you’re the very niche case of being a post office and shop so you don’t have most of the issues relating to cash that most businesses have i.e. actually having to deal with paying it into a bank which takes manhours or security costs, plus banking charges?

Roughly 1.5% of every card transaction is going to a bank or card service provider – so that’s 1.5% of your paycheck every year going to a bank, for almost nothing in return.

Arguably for that 1.5% I get:

Not getting mugged or burgled because no one carries round or has to store a day/week/months worth of cash anymore.

Not having to spend time traveling to / from cash points

Ability to spend spontaneously, I bought a motorbike last week!

I can’t physically lose it

It doesn’t weigh my pockets down / fill my cup holders with shrapnel.

From a consumer perspective, 1.5%, or the 0.6%+1p Zippykona gets charged would seem like a bargain for all the convenience it affords. And from a retailers perspective, do you not think you make that 1<% back on extra sales?

It’s actually really easy to prevent ‘card payments make it easier to spend more than you plan’ issue. I know, as I am a man who has that problem (something that took more time thank care to admit to… well… admit).

Solution, a separate bank account (I use starling, no overdraft). This account is set up for apple pay and I carry the card in a tiny wallet too ind it’s basically my ‘cash’ account. I transfer what I’m going to need to spend on that account which to me is much the same as going to the cash machine – except without having to find a sodding cash machine. If I run out of money on my starling it gives me pause to check why and whether I need to reign it in. Naturally I can just switch to my other card or transfer some more, but it brings it to the forefront of my mind.

Works for me anyway.

The only conspiracy I can believe in is that the Chinese / Russians et al are spreading conspiracy theories via a largely unregulated social media ecosystem to seed general discord and mistrust of governments in the West.

I read a few Arthur C Clarke short stories a while back, one was called ‘I remember Babylon’. It was written in 1960 and describes a Russian/Chinese plan to destabilise the USA via satellite TV that is just porn, gore and that kind of viral content mixed with propaganda. Using the freedom of the west against us, or ideas like that.

Seemed pretty accurate in principle now we have tiktok.

Cash.. there’s no data available from it so no suprise businesses will prefer cashless, same reason as loyalty cards.

Roughly 1.5% of every card transaction is going to a bank or card service provider – so that’s 1.5% of your paycheck every year going to a bank, for almost nothing in return.

Apart from your mortgage/rent (is anyone on here old enough to have paid that in cash?) and then your household bills, utilities etc. Plus any car payments. Pretty much impossible to pay these in cash and as I understand it illegal to charge an additional fee for doing so by card for these, so effectively its a cost of doing business for the company, not the individual.

So if 1.5% of my general shopping (supermarket, pub, bike bits etc) is going towards running a system that enables me to allways pay without having to carry hundreds of pounds around in my pocket, not lose my money, not get robbed, not end up with a pile of small change that is then impossible to spend and goes down the back of the sofa; and as a benefit – I can in seconds pull up a complete itemised list of all my spending including where and when as well as how much.

All avoiding wasting any of my short life travelling to, or queuing up to speak to someone in a bank for the pleasure of having my own money given to me or depositing my own money into my account.

Well worth the fee.

How much of my shopping bill is covering the losses the store has from scrotes stealing their stock?