kids pocket money, via an app that you pay for… wow.
This always makes me laugh. My lad has a nationwide account with debit card, so we can just pay pocket money or bus fares in there and he can use it contactless with no fees.
I hardly use cash these days, annoys the hell out of me when we need to pay for parking somewhere that doesn't use an app these days!! need to remember to leave some change in the car...
Amex charges for me are around £1.5 to £3 a month! I’ve had bills for 19p in the past and they send an invoice and a seperate DD notice from France in the post!
That's because it's the law. If you asked them, you could do it all online. A lot of the issues that you're raising about accepting cards could be addressed if you wanted to do something about it. Switch to a cheaper provider, online servicing etc
You can still support local businesses by shopping with them and paying by card.
Also 2.5 is my ‘worst’ card on Amex – to be fair it’s usually around 1.2 < 1.5 for most debit cards.
I have a corporate Amex, and loads of people refused to accept it. Then one day I pointed at the Amex sticker on the door and they said that they could accept it but would rather not because they lose too much money. Which is fair enough on their part as I had another option.
Amex are crap. However my new card is contactless which makes me wonder if the charges are different. Contactless is a different scheme generally.
Thought it worth picking this post apart
online banking, yeah all great till your laptop picks up a virus, bad one, scan ongoing, and half your ‘access’ is cut off (same for power or BB outages) with the extra paranoia in the next few days that anything i have accessed in recent days is potentially compromised and needs securing
I hardly ever use my laptop for banking, I use an app which always works. My watch pays for things without any sort of network connection. Bank branches are closed more than they are open and much more frequently than internet banking services are down. Cash machines run out of cash or are offline more frequently.
take cash out of the bank and shop local, else soon you wont have those options… someone mentioned lazy stereotyping earlier, well to say that any local business that likes cash/has a broken card machine is tax dodging….
I shop local using contactless and, as I said before, more likely to spend money if I can do it instantly and not have to have my wallet on my or go to cash point. Doesn't bother me in the slightest if I do not have the option to use a bank branch, I don't agree with you connecting this to loss of local shops.
– kids pocket money, via an app that you pay for… wow.>
I know, it great isn't it? I give my kids a app which helps them to budget, plan and spend using the same type of technology that will be essential to their daily lives as they become adults. I have complete parental control so I can keep them safe. Why do I apy for it? Because the main banks seem woefully behind the curve here and only offer stripped down versions of adult accounts, nothing smart at all.
It certainly is dying out driven by banks to make more profit. Still happily use cash and I'm not even a coke dealer. But if you interested Instagram is a hive of dealing and most happily accept bank transfers or so a friend tells me.
Edit: PayPal not bank transfer
However my new card is contactless which makes me wonder if the charges are different. Contactless is a different scheme generally.
No it isn't. It's a different form of acceptance (as are wallet transactions), but the underlying payment method is still the card.
go to a supermarket that doesn’t expect you to steal the trolley…
Coin trolleys are so they don't have to pay people to collect trolleys.
– online banking, yeah all great till your laptop picks up a virus
Can't remember the last time I had any virus and it would be very unlikely to compromise bank security. If it was an issue I'd just use my phone, tablet or one of the other laptops.
Plus, as mentioned, most bank use some kind of two-factor authentication such as a physical card reader.
– kids pocket money, via an app that you pay for… wow.
Your paying for the bank account, card services and app.
Cash is dying for kids too: pretty hard to spend cash in online games, amazon etc. My daughter isn't allowed to carry more than £10 cash at school, but a card is fine.
It certainly is dying out driven by banks to make more profit.
I thought it was being driven by a combination of improved convenience and a global pandemic. Silly me.
the charges for using contactless are generally the same as traditional card, however the amex discount rate has dropped significantly in recent years - its now mostly on a par with visa and mastercard, as they're trying to gain acceptance rates (which in the US are again, mostly on a par with both of them)
incidentally, card fees as a whole are trending down as an attempt to stop market disrupters stealing all the card business (as they have in a lot of markets). They will over time effectively trend to zero, and banks will have to make their money in other ways
Not really, by paying in cash your keeping 100% of that money local. Paying by card/phone/watch a percentage goes to the international conglomerates.
You've said on this very thread that you take the cash to the bank daily? If you grabbed wadges of 20s out the till to pay cash directly to the drivers that deliver your stock I would change my mind, but I'm pretty sure you dont.
I do feel for someone in your situation, as a small business, where you are getting charged on your income, not your profits; and more importantly you are having to do both things in parallel (cash and card) to keep all customers happy, and thus you must deal with the disadvantages of both systems.
Consumers/customers are free to pick the one they want, and the vast majority of the people on this thread seem to like the benefits of card payment.
Cash is also dying in schools - I have to put dinner money on Parent Pay for my kids.
Even back in the 1980s in my school dinner money was used to buy a dinner card once a fortnight. Children on free school meals just got the cards without handing over cash, so no-one knew.
Really interesting reading about the kid's pocket money/school lunch things with cards and apps etc. As I don't have kids I hadn't thought about that angle! It does make sense on a few levels: parental control, teaches financial budgeting (a very good thing IMO), reduces theft issues and the free school dinners angle is interesting too. I was a receiver of free school meals for a short time back in high school and got bullied for it (more than normal) when I was spotted going to the reception hatch for my weekly vouchers and using them at the till, when everyone has a digital card that issue disappears completely.
@monkeyboyjc - your situation sounds very unique and if it works for you then great but the vast majority of businesses don't have that option so have to either make a special trip to the bank to deposit their cash or pay a security company to collect it from the premises on a regular basis. the cost of either of these is a direct cut to the bottom line not to mention the security risks involved.
@reluctantjumper I've 10+ buisness within a mile all who accept cash, all rarely bank it with me at the PO, most if not a come in the shop regularly (daily). They could bank it but decide not too... Various reasons, but mainly because they pay suppliers with it rather than Bacs.
I'll be awkard. Cash is so handy.
Easiest way to transfer funds. Even more crucial if internet banking is not wanted. What a complete ball ache that is. Switching on computer, looking for passwords, wondering why the hell the buttons don't do what you want.
Less traumatic to lose than a card as you don't have to wait for a bank to send you a new one. So you lose a few quid. Just how often does it happen?
Easier to keep track of. It is in you hand or not.
More reliable when dealing with strangers.
Easier to carry. A fiver wraps nicely around a light battery and just buys two pints. You can screw a note up into your sock or under an insole.
Don't even mention phones. I have a mobile but god knows where it is. Haven't tried to use it since going to France in May 2019.
Of course not talking about thousands or even hundreds.
Personally I'd be quite keen to go down the Swedish route of eventualy phasing cash out entirely and ensuring everyone has a bank account and the skills to use it.
Cash just seems like imperial weights now, something archaic which should be consigned to the dustbin of history.
I’ll be awkard. Cash is so handy.
Easiest way to transfer funds.... etc.
Wow!!
Easier to carry. A fiver wraps nicely around a light battery and just buys two pints. You can screw a note up into your sock or under an insole.
Where is this pub? Must have been 10 years ago I was annoyed when my local cricket club bar (the cheapest places, generally) went from 2.50 to 2.60 and left you with loads of stupid change.
You know what else is convenient, and has less foot smell? A smart watch (they literally wrap around your wrist) or mobile phone (nicely pocket shaped, and diificult to lose), and you dont have to remember to replenish your stash after each use either.
Just another attack on the poor. Not accepting cash should be illegal - as it is in New York (ISTBC).
Fine for the stereotype STW member, but out in the real world there are plenty of financially compromised people who find budgeting far simpler with a given amount of real cash for the week.
Good Devil's Advocaat @mattsccm but..
internet banking is not wanted. What a complete ball ache that is. Switching on computer, looking for passwords,
In the 90's maybe. These days I just log into the app on my phone using my fingerprint. Done. Damn sight easier than searching for my deposit book and/or making a trip into a branch.
Less traumatic to lose than a card as you don’t have to wait for a bank to send you a new one.
Online banking app allows me to withdraw cash from an ATM without a card. And Apple Pay allows me to pay by card.. without a card.
More reliable when dealing with strangers.
Paying by card gives you certain guarantees and a proof of purchase Cash doesn't.
Don’t even mention phones. I have a mobile but god knows where it is. Haven’t tried to use it since going to France in May 2019.
You are my dad and I claim my £5.
Also.. please come home.
Just another attack on the poor.
Several people have mentioned that universal free banking should be a requirement of a cash-free society. That seems more forward looking than trying to insist everywhere takes cash.
Would be interesting to see what happens with drug dealers if cash was to die out.
I genuinely can't remember the last time I used cash for anything, so from a personal point of view it would make no difference to me if it disappeared.
There are definitely plenty of people out there to whom it is important though, particularly the less privileged.
Would be interesting to see what happens with drug dealers if cash was to die out.
Well they might end up paying tax on their earnings, although the low level guys probably don’t cross the threshold anyway.
Just need to set themselves up as a ‘barber’ or ‘home cleaner’ or something that gives them a plausible reason to have many payments.
Plus they’ll be able to charge a price commensurate with the goods, rather than splitting their product into amounts worth 20/50/etc pounds.
Ive got no real issue with drug users or their dealers; unless they steal from other people to pay for it.
Attack on the poor is only if you want it to be. Do you know what is an attack on the poor? Cash.
One of the best ways to tell how nice an area is, is by looking at the cash machines. If it gives out fivers, it’s a bad area. If it claims to give divers but never has any in stock it’s worse. If it charges you for withdrawals, it’s a really bad area. People with little access to transportation are stuck with their only access to cash being atms that charge, and when they only take out a small amount each week because it’s all they have, they get a lot more of the fixed charges.
Got £9.82 in your account and go to a machine that doesn’t do fivers or has run out? No food for you.
Poor but in work? Most likely to have a job where you can’t just nip to the bank at lunch time
Not to mention being poor often means living somewhere with a higher chance of being victim of burglary or mugging. Keep your months wages in the sock draw in untraceable and uninsurable cash?
If any thread was to be nominated as the one which demonstrates what STW is all about, this one would be a front runner...
There are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people across the country who use cash everyday, who don't have access to internet banking, who get paid in cash. They might be older people, they might not be as mobile as most, they may not have a local bank, they might not have a smart phone.
Cash works. It has continued to work for many, many years and should have a place in society regardless of the tech savvy...
Fortunately here in the Vaterland people are very cashless averse.
I very rarely use my card (partly because the banks charge 31c for each transaction.... regardless of whether I'm buying something, taking money out or even funds being deposited into my account!). I'll only use it if I've not got the cash on me. Generally I'll go to the bank (my specific bank as using other ATMs costs me about €6... it's like banking in the UK 1990s style) and draw out a grand and visit the bank again once it's depleted.
Have recently been getting lots of cash jobs. I like cash jobs.
Fortunately here in the Vaterland people are very cashless averse.
I very rarely use my card (partly because the banks charge 31c for each transaction…. regardless of whether I’m buying something, taking money out or even funds being deposited into my account!). I’ll only use it if I’ve not got the cash on me. Generally I’ll go to the bank (my specific bank as using other ATMs costs me about €6… it’s like banking in the UK 1990s style) and draw out a grand and visit the bank again once it’s depleted.
Have recently been getting lots of cash jobs. I like cash jobs.
Sorry - to me all that sounds like a advert as to why I'm all for not having to bother with cash!
Sorry – to me all that sounds like a advert as to why I’m all for not having to bother with cash!
When I was back in the UK I used my card for everything as it was so easy. Coffees, beers, the tube, everything.... Say 5-10 transactions a day.
My bank statement for one month was three pages long!
If I were to use my card for all transactions here in Germany the charges would be crazy!
Just to pick up on the internet banking point, not everyone can use it. I used to be able to but now can't.
I eventually joined the modern world and got it set up, used it for a couple of years.
Then recently my bank changed the login procedure, instead of just a password I now put the password in and it then sends a code to my mobile telephone.
I have no phone signal. By the time I can get anywhere to get one and got back again the bank website has timed out. I can use it at work, signal in town, but there must be loads of people in rural areas who just can't do it.
Anyway, I pay for most stuff by card but cash is just so useful for small, non-business transactions. For example my running club, put a quid in the pot each training session. Simple. Sold something on Ebay or whatever? Cash on collection, pretty secure, you've got the cash, very hard to do any scams. And no you can't do a bank transfer (see above)
These days I just log into the app on my phone using my fingerprint. Done. Damn sight easier than searching for my deposit book and/or making a trip into a branch.
Serious question.
Say you get mugged. Mugger takes your card and demands PIN. You have the option to tell him rather than be stabbed. Once everything uses fingerprints what's to stop the real nasty muggers chopping a finger off to use it? Sometimes less secure is safer
Cash is so handy.
Easiest way to transfer funds.
Is it bollocks.
Buy something expensive for cash, see how convenient that is. A car or something.
I think there is one of those divides on this issue. Those who work in corporate environments seem ecstatic and can't wait (OMG money is such a pain blah blah), the rest not so much.
It's a favourite telly box news feature thing about every fives years or so with jubilant reporters, banking people and government officials claiming a glorious new dawn is imminent.
They seem so desperate to get the public on side.
Digital cash can be traced by authorities.
Cash will always be popular among certain groups.
Last time I used cash was November 2019
GrahamS if you report the card missing to your bank it ceases to work and won’t allow Apple Pay either.
Once everything uses fingerprints what’s to stop the real nasty muggers chopping a finger off to use it? Sometimes less secure is safer
I don’t have a fingerprint scanner on my phone, maybe they’ll just cut my face off instead...
Retina scanners are the way to go but it's felt that folk would be less keen to put their face up to an ATM/Card Reader than to use their fingers so it's always been ruled out.
I think you’ve been watching too many Guy Ritchie movies 🤣Once everything uses fingerprints what’s to stop the real nasty muggers chopping a finger off to use it?
if you report the card missing to your bank it ceases to work and won’t allow Apple Pay either
Not claiming that hasn't happened, but there is no reason (either technical or fraud) for that to happen, just poor quality systems at a given bank
I think there is one of those divides on this issue. Those who work in corporate environments seem ecstatic and can’t wait (OMG money is such a pain blah blah), the rest not so much.
What are you jabbering on about, it's been a natural transition to a cashless society driven by society.
With the age of technology has brought convenience and the people are using that convenience more and more where it's available to use, no ones forced people to do it.
This is not some corporate conspiracy by the banks to make more money, they're happy to use any form of cash be it physical or electronic. Yes there are overheads for managing physical but it still generates plenty of dosh through savings for example.
Over time when technology expands out to the harder to reach places at lower costs, everywhere will end up using electronic payments in some form.
Charities will learn to adapt as rightly pointed out historically cash was a big income stream.
Serious question.
Say you get mugged. Mugger takes your card and demands PIN. You have the option to tell him rather than be stabbed.
Um.... Tell him the wrong PIN?
Or are you going to go with him to the machine so he can try it?
Got £9.82 in your account and go to a machine that doesn’t do fivers or has run out? No food for you.
Surely in that circumstance you take the card out of the cash machine and then, instead, take it over to the till and use it to pay for £9.82 worth of food?
If any thread was to be nominated as the one which demonstrates what STW is all about, this one would be a front runner…
There are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of people across the country who use cash everyday, who don’t have access to internet banking, who get paid in cash. They might be older people, they might not be as mobile as most, they may not have a local bank, they might not have a smart phone.
Cash works. It has continued to work for many, many years and should have a place in society regardless of the tech savvy…
All very simple to fix, Sweden managed it. You just create a basic bank account eg via the Post Office and give everyone an account. You then provide training etc to ensure no one is left out.
No one is suggesting just banning cash ovenight at the stroke of midnight and watching the old / poor starve (although watching the poor starve is many a Tory's wet dream).
Cash wont die out before the current generation of IT illiterate people have popped their cloggs so they can continue as they always have. It will become less convenient as more and more bank branches close down and more expensive as charges for ATM cash withdrawals become the norm, but they'll still be able to access cash.
And it will never be banned. It'll just phase out until it is no longer economically viable to have actual physical cash in circulation.
No one is suggesting just banning cash ovenight at the stroke of midnight and watching the old / poor starve (although watching the poor starve is many a Tory’s wet dream).
Depends where you draw the line of "poor", but old and technologically backwards is their core voter base, why would they let them die?
Sweden managed it. You just create a basic bank account eg via the Post Office
Post office no longer open new accounts and are slowly trying to 'shut down' all existing ones. It's part of the deal they did with the banks, postoffice cant operate as a bank it's self. One reason so many high st banks are shutting branches is that you can do 99% of the same stuff at your local post office now.
It's also a private company so the gov can't force people to use it. There are also lots of people who can't get or even apply for bank accounts - they used to be able to open a post office AC (no more).
Yeah but you can withdraw cash from the Post Office with your chip and pin card or Apple Pay/google pay from any bank, so access to cash is not restricted or reduced just because you cannot get an account with the PO any more. And of course cash back at supermarkets and other businesses. Again charges might apply in the future if they don't already do so.
As devices get smarter then the barriers for old folks will reduce. With things like smart watches you no longer have to have a smart phone (though most old folks do have smart phones these days) and anything with a microchip in it can potentially be used as a chip&pin device...eg a hearing aid, glasses, a ring with an embedded chip. the problem with old fogeys is not necessarily lack of confidence with modern tech, but moreso lack of trust of electronic money or banks in general. still alot of old fogeys hoarding their cash under their mattresses rather than trusting a bank with it. You can take a horse to water, but doesn't mean you can make it drink. Some people are just set in their ways and stubborn and are happy to struggle on regardless. That's their choice.
Even for those who can't get a bank account there are pre-paid cards you load up with cash in advance, so options are there for anyone so long as they actually have cash.
Sweden managed it.
Yup, it works really well here. You have a personnummer that is unique to you and tied to government services like tax and stuff. That gets you a bank account and all the electronic signing things like Swish and BankID.
Once you have those, you can just send money via your phone to anyone with a Swish account, or use a bank app. Need proof it is you? Use BankID to electronically sign stuff like bills, invoices, logins to websites, payments, etc.
I can't remember the last time I used cash here. It's actually quite difficult to do. I also can't remember the last time I needed it, even the events like house clearances/antik sales in small villages have Swish barcodes. Hell, our local farmer has one for people buying potatoes.
Serious question.
Say you get mugged. Mugger takes your card and demands PIN. You have the option to tell him rather than be stabbed.
The old 3 authentication factors joke:
- something they can steal (e.g. card)
- something they can beat out of you (e.g. PIN)
- something they can chop off you (e.g. finger)
There are also lots of people who can’t get or even apply for bank accounts – they used to be able to open a post office AC (no more).
You need an email address - without that it's almost impossible to open bank accounts. So even someone being paid in cash, only using cash to buy things etc - if they're IT illiterate or don't have access to a computer / wifi etc then they're at a disadvantage.
Libraries (the ones that the Tories haven't yet closed) are full of stories of staff helping people with basic IT, people who have no option other than to go to a library and use the computers there and that comes with obvious security implications for online banking.
Even for those who can’t get a bank account there are pre-paid cards you load up with cash in advance, so options are there for anyone so long as they actually have cash.
Yeah, I can see everyone going for that
Would you like to:
a) use the cash you have in your pocket
or
b) Faff about loading said cash onto a pre-paid card (how/where would you do this?) to suit the convenience of the banks
Sweden managed it.
Sweden have managed all kinds of things that will never ever become a reality in the UK
Surely in that circumstance you take the card out of the cash machine and then, instead, take it over to the till and use it to pay for £9.82 worth of food?
That assumes that the ATM card is also a debit card. If you are restricted on your banking choices there's a good chance that chip & PIN will not be available to you.
Faff about loading said cash onto a pre-paid card (how/where would you do this?) to suit the convenience of the banks
Our secondary school had a cash-free system (late 80's early 90's) called GiroVend. A very basic ID and payment system to save kids carrying cash around and being bullyed/mugged for it.
You put the card into a wall-mounted machine, paid in cash and the machine would add that to your card (like topping up an Oyster). You then used the card for school dinners and in the school shop which was just for basic stationery items, there was nothing in there more than a few quid.
If the card got nicked or lost, a stop would be put on it - you just went to the school shop or one of about half a dozen staff and reported it and it'd be stopped straight away and your balance loaded onto a replacement card (minus a small admin fee...)
A school is a small, closed environment. We're talking about an entire countries society here.
What you're talking about here would require some form of a national infrastructure.
All the banks are presently busy closing branches and removing ATM's, so where's this infrastructure coming from then? Who's supplying, installing and maintaining it?
Sweden *appears to be* a much more homogenous society than the UK, @willard might confirm or refute that.
I'm sure that there is poverty but the government and agencies seem much more willing to be inclusive rather than the "us and them" approach here. A lot of the barriers to having a bank account have been put in place to counter fraud and money laundering and the poor have been unintended losers in that battle.
Covid has accelerated the cashless society here but that still doesn't mean it's just around the corner, it could be twenty years or more away rather than forty or fifty. The elderly refuseniks will be dead and replaced by a generation who have either never used cash or it's just a distant memory.
I've the NHS tracking app installed on my phone. Scans QR codes at business premises as part of that. That technology is easy to transfer: scan a QR code and your Swish account is debited, bluetooth* or similar connects with the retailer's terminal and shows that it has occurred. Apple Pay requires you to be part of the existing banking network, it's just another portal to that so those who don't have bank accounts couldn't use it.
*I know bluetooth requires pairing - just an example.
Old fogeys? My father died 11 years ago (today as it happens) and would have been 98 this year. He could use an ATM and pay by card without any problems
Sweden *appears to be* a much more homogenous society than the UK
Apart from all the bombings.
https://www.ft.com/content/8cfa6212-4270-4962-a200-949a868c7cbe
meh, it's only a few and usually only on the west coast. It barely ever happens in Stockholm...
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/explosion-pa-sodermalm-i-stockholm
Sweden has issues. It's not perfect and there is a relatively open level of racism in some places (Skåne/Malmö and the Sverige Demokraterna for example). Generally though it's a moderate and accepting place. I think the big thing is that politics is consensus with a lot of alliances and agreements. No one party can really boss the place around, so deals have to be made. We still invest in things like infrastructure and, whilst I am sure there is corruption, I really do not think it is as visible or as widespread as in the UK right now.
Old fogeys? My father died 11 years ago (today as it happens) and would have been 98 this year. He could use an ATM and pay by card without any problems
If you have the mental capacity to deal with 8 different coins and 4 different notes, that arent obvious in how they relate to each other, then you can deal with chip and pin and contactless - as evidenced by probably a good majority of that age group.
And on the other hand we've all been stood waiting for what seems like an eternity at an ATM while Mable stares at the instructions on the screen as if she's being asked to operate the navigation system on a nuclear sub
Most of my older customers deal with chip and pin just fine. I do have a fair few though who swipe it across the top of the machine in the air (magnetic strip style) because they think that's how it works. I've one who thinks it's a little airplane and I do the "neeeooooowwwwww" sound in my head every time...... I've another that throws the card at the machine forcibly because he thinks it's the only way to get it to work rather than just waiting a second or two for it to register.....
All of these customers would struggle with online banking, they struggle with mobile phones.....
I had an older lady argue with me about depositing a cheque this am - she was convinced I could do it with out a paying in slip, digitally some how.... We can't. Spent 5min telling me I was wrong and asking how I could fix it, even asked me if she could deposit a cheque for her bank account in any bank other branch?!?! These people struggle with the normal stuff let alone the digital.
Mind you as others have said they won't be around In 20/30 years
So basically there are two types of people, those who think it's possible and those who will find any reason to tell you it could never work.
I literally only pay cash to my daughters ice skating coaches and its become a major pain in the arse. Everyone else has NFC machines, even the roll vans.
So basically there are two types of people, those who think it’s
possiblelikely and those whowill find any reason to tell you it could never worklive in the real world.
FTFY
Your daughters ice skating coaches don't have card machines? For gods sake, man! What kind of third world backwater do you live in?
@binners - I've been stood at cash machines trying to decipher the instructions because at that particular moment there's truly horrific glare coming off the screen. Not just me, those in front of me were also complaining about it.
Your point still stands, there are some for whom any interaction with "impersonal" technology is a trial. Designing systems that are genuinely intuitive is really hard, dealing with people making mistakes is even harder.
I don't even think it's an age thing. The government estimates that there are over 5 million adults in the UK who are functionally illiterate.
When you see figures like that, thats where all the utopian dreams and predictions all fall down.
If you went down to my local on a night when they used to be open I could introduce you to a good few people who I reckon come into this catagory. And these aren't pensioners. These are working blokes. Tradesmen. And they're not skint either. They deal exclusively in cash. I bet they don't even have bank accounts. I've never seen one produce anything other than notes in the pub.
Talk to them about a 'cashless society' and they'd laugh you out of the place
I guess no one has ever been at a till waiting for someone to fish out all their change?
obviously, because they are the #1 reason why going cashless is a good idea 🤣Talk to them about a ‘cashless society’ and they’d laugh you out of the place
I know, but taking every single bank note out of circulation is the only way you're ever going to do it. Even then, they'll probably set up some bartering style market in US dollars or golden eggs or something.
Thats why a cashless society is simply never going to happen
Post office no longer open new accounts and are slowly trying to ‘shut down’ all existing ones. It’s part of the deal they did with the banks, postoffice cant operate as a bank it’s self. One reason so many high st banks are shutting branches is that you can do 99% of the same stuff at your local post office now.
It's only an example. The point being if we wanted to go cashless it's pretty easy to do. Currently we're in a weird middle ground where large parts of society are going cashless but we're happy to leave people (the poor) behind. Just look at how many bank branches are closing (as there's not enough demand) and the outcry over the few who still want them. It's just shouting at the waves of progress to turn back.....
It’s also a private company so the gov can’t force people to use it. There are also lots of people who can’t get or even apply for bank accounts – they used to be able to open a post office AC (no more).
It's a private company heavily regulated eg they can't make any changes to delivery schedules without permission. So very easy to make them support bank accounts if we wanted.
The government estimates that there are over 5 million adults in the UK who are functionally illiterate.
And most of these people can manage cash, which means they're not complete vegetables and have some basic numeric skills. Teaching then to tap a card to pay for things is doable etc. It will take some effort, but it's possible.
You're assuming they want to.
You’re assuming they want to.
I don't actually care what they want to do - we all have to do things we don't necessarily want to like pay taxes, stick to speed limits (ok most don't) etc etc.
The point being if we wanted to go cashless it’s pretty easy to do.
I would suggest that it will be difficult as it requires primary legislation to force private companies to provide low-cost banking for the poorer parts of society who are disproportionately affected by any charges on basic accounts. (EDIT MSE recommends 3 providers for basic accounts and one of those will try to place you onto a standard account).
They are also likely to have problems if several direct debits bounce over a period of time as the banks can and do withdraw the facility. Which then gets the lucky person the opportunity to pay for their fuel by pre-payment card at a higher rate than the rest of us.
I can't see companies falling over themselves to provide these accounts with the extra restrictions to avoid reducing people to penury. The government could do it but at the arrival of the next occupant of no.10 who doesn't hold with supporting the poorer sections of society, the facility will be sold off to their mates and we would have to re-invent the wheel.
Cash works very well for the poorer members of society, you know exactly where you are financially and you spend the little that you have on the things that you need (though the choice between heat or food towards the end of a winter month isn't a great one). (EDIT 2 The first hit on Google for a basic account (thinkmoney) want £10 a month as fees for operating the account or 2% of a 25 year old couples UC income of £488).
(I earn somewhere between minimum wage and living wage per hour, fortunately I was in well paid employment for the first 30 years and I'm married to a high earning person. I have a vague handle on the vagaries of the benefit system from family and personal experience but that was over 10 years ago now and it's not got any better since then).
I don’t actually care what they want to do – we all have to do things we don’t necessarily want to like pay taxes, stick to speed limits (ok most don’t) etc etc.
How exactly do you intend to enforce your cashless fascist state?
Death squads executing people in the street for possession of a grubby tenner? Dawn raids kicking peoples doors in to unearth a secret stash of pound coins?
How exactly do you intend to enforce your cashless fascist state?
make it easier to use cashless than anything else. people are inherently lazy. no death squads required.
This is your classic middleclasstrackworld thread
make it easier to use cashless than anything else.
Ease of use isn't the issue
Not everyone exists in a comfortable world of easy access to credit, 0% balance transfers on credit cards and Audi's on PCP deals
These things are luxuries, not rights
The issue is that banks have no intention of providing a service to people they can't make money out of ie: those at the bottom of society. If they do provide it, they will charge for it, so where on earth is the incentive for the poor to use cashless when they can just use cash?
@Sandwich has just explained why poorer people prefer using cash. Its simple and easy to keep track of
people are inherently lazy
Laziness is a luxury some can't afford. Its an expensive and time consuming business being poor in the UK (see pre-paid energy cards comment above)
It amazes me how out of touch some people on here are with the reality of the lives lived by others
It’s a private company heavily regulated eg they can’t make any changes to delivery schedules without permission. So very easy to make them support bank accounts if we wanted.
Untrue, royal mail are heavily regulated (part of the privatisation and keeping the royal part of the name), but post office are a seperate private company they don't have delivery schedules because they don't deliver it. You or the gov can't make them do anything they don't want and the deal they've done with the banks required them not to operate any of their own banking.
If the gov wanted everyone to go cashless they would need to provide or ensure that everyone could, I'd expect a conservative gov would introduce legislation that forces private banks to legally provide a bank account for all, a labour one would introduce a public service/facilities
make it easier to use cashless than anything else.
Which is the approach the banks have taken (as it makes them a great deal of money), first with chip and pin, and then with contactless. There are plans to open contactless to any amount with biometric security readers built into the card rather than using your pin. So you could more easily buy a car with a swipe of your card rather than entering four numbers.
Your daughters ice skating coaches don’t have card machines? For gods sake, man! What kind of third world backwater do you live in?
Well it's not like Pingit hasn't existed for 8 years now is it?
Like I said, you're just looking for reasons for it to not work when in fact there is no good reason for it not to.
Like I said, you’re just looking for reasons for it to not work when in fact there is no good reason for it not to.
...for you, maybe?
Others lives and situations are different, as described above. Whats an advantage to you could cause further hardship to others, and certainly offers them no tangible benefits.
People make their own choices. You seem annoyed they are making ones you disagree with