This post is really about two related things: 1) tyres & automotive maintenance in general, and 2) how education for UK drivers might be improved. If you decide to comment, please feel free to take up one, or both, of these issues!

1. I was out walking today, and because I have a new-to-me car myself, was taking particular note of the parked cars I was passing as I proceeded to my destination. When I bought mine (a 2004 Volvo XC90 in immaculate condition with extremely low miles), I was taken aback by the fact that, while the previous owner had clearly spared no expense keeping the vehicle in good condition, s/he also had no idea as to the importance of proper tyres. It has four new tyres on it, but four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns… basically everything that tortures my tyre-nerd soul. I will be replacing them ASAP.

That said, I am continually amazed by how many vehicles out there that are in the same state: say, generally good condition, but with no-name brand tyres made for God-knows-what season, or else completely bald. Unbelievable.

Then, I remembered an acquaintance of mine who had to do some work in the South Wales Valleys for a time, and so bought himself a used Land Rover Freelander… ‘to get up the snowy hills’ he said. ‘How exactly are you going to do that with no tread on your well-used summer tyres’, I asked.

Is it just a British thing to not consider the supreme importance of the very thing that connects you with the ground and keeps your rolling-based machine, well… rolling? There just seems to be an incredible naivete about driving here that fails to understand the role of tyres in safety and effectiveness.

2. Anyway, it was a long-ish walk today, so I then started thinking about the drivers’ education programme that I had to go through back in 1987 in Manitoba. It was a government-run programme that included a number of weeks of classroom work before we were allowed in a car, that featured the classic North American ‘drivers-ed films’ (horrible, gory accident scenes, and details of what led to them), as well as a study of road law, and even basic maintenance. Then, it was in the car and on the road, with training in different weather, and things like emergency manoeuvres, etc.

Finally, I had an uncle who wouldn’t let his own kids drive until they each took an introductory mechanics course, and spent a day on a frozen lake learning how to handle a car under the most difficult conditions. When I first turned 16, he asked me what kind of car I wanted to get, and when I said an SUV, he replied, ‘You don’t need an SUV! What you need is to make sure you always have a good set of tyres, and proper skill.’

I have tried to live by that advice, and the other stuff I learned, but I wonder if we couldn’t do A LOT more with new drivers here to make them more aware of what driving actually entails.

I then started thinking about the drivers’ education programme that I had to go through back in 1987 in Manitoba.

Accidental partridge quote-a-rama.

I guess we’re predisposed to giving a shit about tyres and traction on here, but undoubtedly ignorant people think its the shape of the car that’s a testament to how capable it is in crappy conditions (small hatch with skinny tyres anyone – cheaper if you do bounce it off a dry stone wall too!!)

I went rallying in Wales in an Escort and we all had a razz around happy as Larry, the instructor asked us how we felt / how it went and after the general self-approval hit peak he bollocked us all for not brake testing it. That stuck with me.

I’m surprised there aren’t more spot checks on tyres. Presumably whomever has enforcement powers could just walk around a car park poking tyres with a gauge, taking the odd photo then issuing fines and points.

Tyres and brakes, never stint on these items. But then I grew up helping my father keep old and tired cars on the road and whilst there was never much money, he always went on about how important contact patches are so never bought ditchfinders and I guess it rubbed off on me.
He also took the view when looking at second hand cars, whether private sale or at a dealers, to check the tyres and if they were missmatched just walk away as if the owner couldn’t be bothered to look after this essential aspect then what would the rest of the car have been treated like?
I always change the tyres when they get to about 3mm or a fraction less, and make sure they are good quality and matched across the axle and the vehicle. But then I can afford it for which I am very grateful.

i think a lot of people spend a large proportion of their take home £ on a (second hand) car payment, so when it is time to put 4 tyres on their expensive q7 or whatever (an easy grand for decent stuff) they cannot afford it. hence the 35 quid membat passions smiling on the road my wifes v70 had when we bought it. grimacing into a ditch more like.
i bought a 600 quid ibiza to drive to work and immediately put 4 brand new premium tyres on it, some people thought i was mad, but the worth of the car doesnt change how quickly it will stop in the rain.

SaxonRider
Full Member

That said, I am continually amazed by how many vehicles out there that are in the same state: say, generally good condition, but with no-name brand tyres made for God-knows-what season, or else completely bald. Unbelievable.

90% of all used subarus ever come with mismatched tyres. One will be brand new but a ditchfinder, one is generally a high quality winter tyre, at least one will have cracks. It’s just the law.

I could kind of understand it with my sheddy old mondeo, it had sheddy old car tyres on. But who the hell goes “I’ll buy this 280bhp AWD sporty car and spec the suspension upgrades and add a stiffer roll bar… And then fit these tyres I found in a river” When you put the foot down on my Legacy it went in 4 different directions at the same time.

he bollocked us all for not brake testing it.

Bizarre, what did he want? You know you’ve got a brake pedal before you move off. You also know the car’s got a dual master cylinder and the first light dab on the brakes will tell you if you’ve got all four working. I usually grab a bit of handbrake to find out how much effort it takes to lock the rears and then it’s just a case of progessively learning about the brakes as you pick up the pace, just as you do with every other aspect of the car. Sounds like an instructor being a dick.

Brakes on a rally car need constant adaption anyhow. They require more effort cold, bite better as they warm up, tend to cool on long straights or up hill especially in the wet. You’re constantly adapting – brake testing teaches you **** all. The pressure you apply to the pedal is in a constant feedback loop, the G you feel in response to pedal input. It requires no thought, it just happens as a response to what you’re seeing and feeling. If you’re thinking about it it’s usually because you’ve made and error of appreciation and are struggling to kill speed, the rest of the time it’s just part of the flow.

Sounds like an instructor being a dick

You’re overthinking it – it was essentially that we were only interested in how quick it would go, not how quick it would stop. This was after the initial acclimatisation, we spent the rest of the afternoon ‘getting good’. And it wasn’t really a bollocking, more a big put down.

I think worrying about tyres and equipment whilst important is not the most important thing, and for people like the typical STW forum user it can be a distraction.

Hands down the most important thing you can do when driving is watch what you are doing, drive carefully, moderately, defensively, and anticipate what might go wrong at all times. In other words, take it seriously. That should be the key message that people need to learn IMO.

I’ve gone from having 4 different (some budget no name whatevers) to a full set of premiums for the first time. Can I tell the difference? No. It went round corners before. I can’t recall it ever breaking traction. Maybe you have to go round corners at more than the speed limit notice the difference.

you will the first time you have to do an E stop in the rain

Don’t think its a British issue I think its just the direction the world is going. Everything is only about monetary cost to them and no thought towards bigger picture at all. I think we are also moving away from a culture that cares about doing things yourself but instead to outsource them to someone else.

When I learned to drive ~15 years ago the government bought in a requirement to understand some basic workings of a car. ie I had to know where to put washer fluid or how check and top up engine oil etc … But it was a very quick please describe and point how you would do this. I think we should’ve had to do some of it practically. Not just point where the dip stick is and give a vague description.

I think a large proportion of people couldn’t give a hoot about maintaining their car. They just keep driving until a spanner symbol pops up and says its due a service or the dealer calls them up asking when they can book you in.

Doubt many have read the manual to see what the service intervals are or even if there are different types of service requirements at different stages. They think its just something that happens every year and not according to mileage.

To them a service is a service and round black tyre is a round black tyre. They ask how much; and go for the lowest bid. Ignore all other factors such quality of work or what’s included.

Don’t think its an education thing I think its a cultural thing, we just want things for lowest price and completed in the quickest amount of time. I also don’t think we hold onto things for as long as we did and get a new shiny thing. This means that the initial purchaser rarely gets to see the mid to long term effects from not sticking to the service schedule properly or from using poor quality parts. So to them cost cutting had no bad effects so they will just continue to do it.

Don’t think I’ve done an e stop since my test 20 years ago!

Hands down the most important thing you can do when driving is watch what you are doing, drive carefully, moderately, defensively, and anticipate what might go wrong at all times. In other words, take it seriously. That should be the key message that people need to learn IMO.

Good point and usually applies to most things in life. Avoiding a bad situation all together is better than relying on having super skills or equipment to get you out that bad situation.

eg first lesson in self defence is to not get into the fight and to run away if possible.

Cars are a status symbol in the UK, but status is conferred by the badge on the bonnet and the size of the car.

Apart from car geeks nobody really cares if their car has Ling Longs, Devanti, Hi-Flis, Landsails or whatever other shite Kwik Fit have in stock that week.

Having a set of Pilot Sports or CrossClimates doesn’t score you anymore status points and the vast majority of people would struggle to understand or notice the difference.

I used to be really into my cars and motorbikes, but just don’t have any interest anymore. The tyres get replaced with the make/model which were fitted when it came out of the showroom and I don’t even do basic maintenance. Putting some screen wash in and air in the tyres when the relevant warning lights come on is about the limit.

I’ve gone from having 4 different (some budget no name whatevers) to a full set of premiums for the first time. Can I tell the difference? No.

Maybe you or the vehicle are not sensitive enough or maybe you are driving well within the limits as you should be to notice or maybe your budget tyres where actually quite good?

Also the difference is more than grip levels, you have noise, wear rate, fuel economy to also take into account.

I can certainly feel difference in tyres keeping within the speed limits and keeping within what the conditions and situation determines. I’m not saying I’m some tyre guru or driving god. I’m not saying when I was on the poor tyres I was constantly on the edge of crashing, just in my experience there can be a big difference between tyres at normal tyres.

You very rarely need all seasons or snow tyres. But the peace of mind of knowing you can get home when you do is worth it.

I got home that day. Going up Maryhill Road at 7pm I had it almost to myself Took 30 minutes to dig out the drive to get the car off the road.

Three or four years ago I was on untreated hilly snow covered roads for 20 miles coming home from Torridon on New Year’s Day.

All it takes is one bump avoided and the difference in cost between all seasons and summers is paid a few times over. Like insurance.

But if given the choice between £400 for all seasons or £250 for budget ditchfinders many people will save the £150

I would hazard a guess that the climatic extremes are more severe in Manitoba than most of the UK.

four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns… basically everything that tortures my tyre-nerd soul.

exactly like mine. Don’t give a shit, car drives fine, doesn’t skid, I drive according to the conditions (mostly). Petrolheads on here seem obsessed with car tyres. Its weird, never met anyone in “real life” like that. Or maybe I have and they’re just not the sort of people I associate with 😂

Maybe you or the vehicle are not sensitive enough

I’m definitely not. I can only aspire to be so awesome

I am actively looking to notice the difference, but I’m struggling to find any! Maybe the road noise is slightly improved, but it’s very hard to tell. I don’t think I do enough miles to notice wear rate and economy.

Don’t think I’ve done an e stop since my test 20 years ago!

This, I do enough miles a year to require a new vehicle every 4 years and have done since about 1993.
Very rarely have I needed to do an emergency stop, have driven all sorts of crap with miss matched tyres without issue.
Very few actually push the brake pedal hard enough to fully utilize the brakes fully, as I found out when the autobrake kicked on on a VW caddy (the one and only time I’ve experienced it).
The only time I’ve been caught out was driving a 1990 escort van, empty in the wet. It was a pool van, I was the new guy, so I jumped in it, drove it to the job and following my supervisor on the way home, I braked for tee junction as he did, there was a slight bend and I understeered straight off the road.
Turns out it locked up really easily when empty. Nothing really wrong with it, aside being awful and me inexperienced.

I was out walking today, and because I have a new-to-me car myself, was taking particular note of the parked cars I was passing as I proceeded to my destination. When I bought mine (a 2004 Volvo XC90 in immaculate condition with extremely low miles), I was taken aback by the fact that, while the previous owner had clearly spared no expense keeping the vehicle in good condition, s/he also had no idea as to the importance of proper tyres. It has four new tyres on it, but four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns… basically everything that tortures my tyre-nerd soul.

* Waves at a fellow tyre nerd *

If you want the ultimate sign of a car bought purely for show look at the tyres on any Sporty car or SUV that’s a few years old. Guarantee you’ll see loads with knackered tyres in dangerous condition or fitted with incredibly cheap Chinese no-name ones with horrific wear patterns. I always remember observing a customer at a tyre place while mine were being changed a few years ago. Guy walks in wanting a puncture repaired on his big Audi SUV, SQ7 I think. The guy went out and saw the state of the tyre and said it’s beyond repair due to being a nail through the sidewall and also being bald. He asked the customer what type of tyre he wanted to replace it and the customer said “The same as what’s on it.” which were Continentals, price was £210 a tyre and he needed two as both fronts were bald. The customer then proceeded to shout and get all animated with a rant about how the tyres on one of his old cars were £30 each and that they were trying to rip him off. The guy behind the desk then just calmly said “Well we can get some budget options for £90 a tyre for this afternoon, they’re called Autogrip.” Of course the customer went for those and left his SUV there to pick it up later. As I was paying for my tyres I asked the guy behind the counter if that was normal and he said it happens every day without fail, usually with lease cars. He also said the Autogrip tyres were crap and would last only a few thousand miles so were actually more expensive overall but people just can’t see that. He did say he was always happy to deal with customers like me who order premium tyres for mundane cars as they’re nearly always a pleasure to deal with.

He also took the view when looking at second hand cars, whether private sale or at a dealers, to check the tyres and if they were missmatched just walk away as if the owner couldn’t be bothered to look after this essential aspect then what would the rest of the car have been treated like?

I’ve done that, more than a few times!

. It has four new tyres on it, but four tyres of different brands and different tread patterns…

I’m not sure different brands makes any real difference, certainly I’ve had mismatched brands on cars which would on occasion be driven much harder than most cars on the road (surveillance cars with covert blue lights and sirens fitted) and it makes no difference.

Petrolheads on here seem obsessed with car tyres.

It all depends on your priorities doesn’t it. I think it’s important, others don’t. Some people get obsessed with getting the smartest of smartphones, or the latest ebike or insert any thing that matters to you that others think a waste of money. I don’t buy lots of clothes, I don’t eat out or get takeaways very often, I have a cheap Motorola phone etc. Etc. but I will spend an extra £30 per tyre every two or three years because I think it’s worth it. I am quite comfortable being a boring car tyre nerd.

I once listened to somebody at work exclaim their surprise about their car getting a bit squirrely in the snow on the motorway, because it was 4wd…

It’s that kind of misplaced confidence that leads to people ending up upside down in ditches.

I tend to agree with above comment about tyres being a bit of a distraction from bigger dangers, and I’m a matching tyres person – in fact I have 2 sets. I’m a believer in more education though.

@kilo

Tend to agree on brands. I have also driven blue light cars with mixed brands. All premium though.

The big difference is between good tyres and cheap tyres in the wet and summer and all seasons on snow

I have been reading tyre reviews recently, the ones where they test tyres in controlled conditions on tracks with real cars. I’ve only been reading about premium tyres. One test found that in the wet a particular tyre took 7m longer to stop than the best; and when the best had stopped this tyre was still doing 23mph.

Now you can appreciate that the difference between hitting something (or someone) at 23mph is clearly a lot worse than stopping just in front of it (or them). And that hitting something (or someone) at 46mph is a lot worse than hitting it (or them) at 46mph. And these are all top brand premium tyres.

You may not do emergency stops all the time, but there’s a fair chance you’ll do one one day, and you have to ask how fast you’d like to stop in that situation.

My wife did one yesterday morning whilst I was in the car. We were driving up a 20mph road on the way to a school and a young lad was cycling up the pavement to our right at a fair clip in my wife’s blind spot. We approached a crossing and he swerved left as if he was going to bomb across the crossing, or more likely our bonnet. We’d slowed right down of course as it was a crossing but she still hit the anchors hard. He didn’t use the crossing as it happens he was just avoiding something.

If you’ve never done an emergency stop in 20 years of driving you’re either lucky, oblivious, or perhaps both!

Don’t give a shit, car drives fine, doesn’t skid,

Almost any car will skid if you brake hard enough. I’ve driven a fair few cars, and I actually brake test them on empty roads in a variety of conditions so I know what to expect. And yes, they all skid, more on shit tyres and less on good tyres. It’s really concerning that you think your car doesn’t skid.

FWIW I am not sure different brands makes much difference in modern cars with ESP, but I do think it matters that they are decent.

You probably should keep your concern for something that really matters.

Very few actually push the brake pedal hard enough to fully utilize the brakes

Lots of cars have a feature where if it detects a hard press of the brakes it slams them on all the way for you, for exactly this reason. Our Prius had it, it’s called Emergency Brake Assist or something like that.

You probably should keep your concern for something that really matters.

Car crashes don’t matter?

You very rarely need all seasons or snow tyres. But the peace of mind of knowing you can get home when you do is worth it.

Although I completely disagree with your first sentence, I very much appreciate your conclusion in the second. And that, frankly, is at least one of the most important points.

I struggle to feel the difference in my driving when I wear my seatbelt, but the peace of mind of knowing it will be there when I need it is invaluable. And to me, the analogy is almost exact. (At least until one of you points out how it isn’t.) Proper tyres (and being properly equipped in other ways) are as much about being prepared as they are about being called on for use everyday. I also carry jump leads in both of my vehicles, along with other safety and maintenance gear. I have used them many times – not only for myself, but in order to help others.

I am quite comfortable being a boring car tyre nerd.

You want to start a club? 🙂

You can be President; I’ll be Secretary.

Of course I’ve had to brake suddenly in 20 years, but I can’t recall having to go 100% on the brakes in an instant, certainly not at any kind of significant speed. Don’t think I’ve had the abs come on unless there’s been gravel, snow or mud, and in those circumstances it’s always at low speed.

I’ll try a brake test next time I’m out on a clear road (in good conditions!).

Over the years you have posted some quite amusing threads about why you thought Canada did it better. The milk carton one and something to do with schooling too I think. These opinions I have always thought hilarious as people pointed out why you were wrong 😂

However. This. I agree with totally not so much the specifics about tyres etc but just driver training in general. You pass at 17/18 you can then quite feasibly spend the next 60 years of your life driving about and doing what you think you remember and at no point does anyone check up on you. My grandad didn’t even take a test he was old enough to to have to apply for a licence!

You only have to look at sliproads and queues to realise people do not understand the rules and the concepts that make everything work smoothly. With maintenance etc the only time you’ll be called out on it unless you are really unlucky is an MOT and then you just have to fix it. I reckon if your MOT has noticeable faults the frequency of testing should go up.

The principle here applies to mixing tyre qualities as well, insofar as you have good, non-squirmy, tyres up front, and rubbish tyres with poor grip on the back, you get the same effect. Driving 101.

@joshvegas: I certainly don’t mind learning that I’m wrong. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I open certain threads. If I turn out to be right with an opinion, it might contribute to others’ thought; if I’m wrong, then I learn. It’s a win-win!

I had the misfortune to have to use a n NHS pool car.  It had different tyres at each corner and was an utter pig.  Handled differently on lefts and rights and pulled to one side under braking – not harshly in the way if you have defective brakes but just gently

all4 tyres were cheapo dirtchfinders

fortunately I was not in that role long – if it had been permanent I would have done something about it.  Idid mention it and was told it was fine.  It wasn’t

Crap tyres on cars scare the shit out of me.  On reason why I think bangernomics is stupid.  Even on a hire car I always check all 4 tyres

My last focus always had gash tyres, the back would slide out pretty damn easily on wet roads. I switched to cross climates with no further issues.