I just put my front fogs on.

Most cars have front fogs now but I dont think I have ever used them on my car but that doesnt stop people getting irritated by those that do. They dont dazzle people as they just point low and I have never been bothered by them. People still seem to get worked up by people who have them on. If anything they are pointless.

Drac – Moderator

Place it in park not drive.

Or place it in neutral with parking brake on.

Or simply put on the parking brake even if you are in D. (provided your parking brake works)

Place it in park not drive.

I think I have just got into a lazy habit. I would never leave my other car in gear at lights (unless I knew they were about to change) I would put the handbrake on and take it out of gear. Although My son who is learning to drive tells me his instructor said to put it into gear as soon as you stop….. Is this correct practice ?

I usually do the neutral with parking brake on.

Never put it in Parking at lights.

surfer. Try pressing the brake pedal a little harder after you stop. It should engage Hold which means you can leave it in drive but it wont creep when you release the brake pedal. Then to pull away you just press the accelorator. Not sure if this leaves the brake lights on or not

7tronic auto – best gearbox ever.

7tronic auto – best gearbox ever

It is awesome I have to admit. When I first drove it the gear changes where almost unnoticeable. At 90k+ it feels exactly the same 🙂
Not sure if that feature is available I will give it a try although my wife drives that and I drive a Diesel Mito 🙁

Never put it in Parking at lights.

Why not?

Argh, annoyingly bright yes!

However I do counter that by the fact that they do indeed provide enough light to drive with these days.
I’m in support of the new gen LEDs, targeted direction being the key ingredient here for good visibility.
Not keen on how bright they are when peaking a brow of a hill on on coming traffic though.

Isn’t there consultation going on about this with the Motor Industry ATM?

People still seem to get worked up by people who have them on. If anything they are pointless

Front fogs aren’t annoying, people who moan about other with them on just want to control other people – its an odd world.

Glad its not just me, I realise it all a bit Daily Fail but I regularly have to flick my rear view mirror.

There should be some sort of regulation of the brightness, on an unlit road its genuinely blinding.

If the car manufacturers made it easier to change a headlamp bulb it would help.

One went on our Citroen over the Christmas holiday. Ye gods what a palaver to change it. Luckily it was booked in for an MOT early in the new year so I let the garage do it at the same time.

No way could I get to the back of the headlamp assembly, and to remove the headlamp (which I thought might be easier) you have to remove the bumper!

Do car designers not have cars of their own?

Front fogs aren’t annoying, people who moan about other with them on just want to control other people

Nah, I just think “what a penis”. They are called fogs for a reason…..

Isn’t the problem that maximum headlight output is still 55w/60w based on traditional halogen technology whereas an HID or LED system rated at 55w can churn out far more light per watt of input so you end up with ridiculously bright lights which even with self-levelling systems, still dazzle over any sort of rise or bump.

And then there’s the idiots who fit aftermarket HID set-ups into conventional halogen reflector-based headlights…

You do think there ought to be some sort of maximum lumen output figure along with improved beam patterns.

Gary_M – Member
Are you mixing up fog lights with daytime running lights?
I presume matt was talking about the VAG cars that have fog lights coming on when the wheel turns.

Not fog lights, turn assist or some such term, my Sorrento has them as do many newer cars.

I think the foot brake issue has a lot to do with the way drivers a trained nowadays, seems there is a need to “go” or be ready to go as soon as the amber shines! Had this discussion with my daughter(15yrs ago!). She said it was her instructor who said it was a time saver and a way of not holding people up!!!! Yet something else on her driving we disagreed on and after only being in the car with her twice gave up!!!!!

There is also the issue of the wrap around led brake lights masking the indicator making it almost impossible to see 🙄

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158

One went on our Citroen over the Christmas holiday. Ye gods what a palaver to change it.

Isn’t it the French who legally require you to carry spare headlight bulbs in the car? A fat lot of good that is if you can’t change them at the roadside.

No way could I get to the back of the headlamp assembly, and to remove the headlamp (which I thought might be easier) you have to remove the bumper!

I was idly pondering this as I washed the grease out of my newly sliced thumb: why don’t they design headlights so that the front “glass” comes off? Then you could reach in and change a bulb in a fairly similar way to change a domestic lightbulb.

Maybe you’d have to undo one bolt (or preferably something more finger friendly like a big catch or wingnut) under the bonnet to keep it all secure. But it should be kept as simple as possible.

Xenons/LED’s are fantastic when you’re sat behind them.. as noted above though not great when coming the other way or dazzling you from behind. I find Merc and Nissan the worst (Nissan especially seems to change colour and have a bad self-levelling system) although BMW and Audi aren’t far behind. My brother constantly has people flahing him in his C-class with Xenons as they think he has high beam on!

I think some of the issues noted above are to do wih early high-beam assist systems, the idea being you just let the car detect other motorists and forget about flicking on and off manually but some of the early systems are horrendous.

It’s interesting that a lot of flagship car models don’t even have front foglights.. e.g. RS6, Golf R etc. not sure why this is?

” She said it was her instructor who said it was a time saver and a way of not holding people up!!!!”

the way we get taught to drive has alot to do with how cars get treated these days.

your example above has a nasty habit of making uneven braking on auto cars and killing clutch release bearings in manual cars

when i did my lessons it was stay at 60 right up to the 30 sign then brake hard….. exactly the opposite of how i drive – i see the 30 coming up and ive let off and will be near at 30 by the time i pass the sign….

or the get through the gears as fast as possible make progress technique…..

strikes me of teaching stupid to the stupid.

Yup they are way too bright and dazzle. Was just saying this the other day 😆

Conversation around the copperpot household can be extremely riveting at times.

I wager you’re wrong on that unless there’s 10000s of car out there with auto-hold as in a queue nearly all have their brake lights on.

Yes, there literally are 10000s of cars out there. Every Mercedes with a hold function, which is pretty nearly all the autos (which are the vast majority of Merc sales), will keep the brake lights on when you use the hold function.

It’s shit, but it’s as designed. I think I’m one of the few Merc drivers who knows where the ‘handbrake’ switch is. And the reason that doesn’t get used by most is because it’s under the dash where you’d normally find the bonnet release!

I don’t get the hate for LEDs though. Mine has LED headlights and they’re no better than Xenon ones. Although as I get older I find myself getting dazzled more. Couldn’t drive a car now if it didn’t have auto dimming interior and exterior mirrors.

^^^ What about a self dimming windscreen? >>>

Every Mercedes with a hold function, which is pretty nearly all the autos (which are the vast majority of Merc sales), will keep the brake lights on when you use the hold function.

I bet your not stuck behind them every time in a queue though.

Just checked. Indeed on both manual and auto mercs with hold feature, it does indeed leave the rear brake lights on. Didn’t know that

Auto neutral + handbrake at lights. Leaving in drive just wastes fuel. Dont put it in park as you have to go through reverse and the person behind will likely shit themselves when the car in front suddenly has its reverse lights on.

surfer – Member

Never put it in Parking at lights.

Why not? [/quote]

The distance between P to D are vast by comparison to N to D.

Further more there is a possible that if you have gear that is straight like this … if you are in the hurry you might put it in the wrong position in 2nd or lower gear.

With this you don’t have to worry …

or this …

The new 8 speed ZF in BMW’s (in my 1’er anyway) actually encourages just sitting on the footbrake in drive at lights as this will activiate stop/start and cut the engine..

If you leave in drive and put handbrake on engine still runs wasting fuel.

If you put in neutral and put handbrake on engine still runs wasting fuel.

Not too sure about park… will report back.

So not blinding people behind and saving fuel via stop/start are mutually exclusive I think!

I deal with bright brake lights in traffic queues by not habitually crawling up the chuff of the car in front. Works well. Rule of thumb, if you can’t see their rear wheels you’re too close.

Interesting about auto-hold leaving the lights on; I’ll have to investigate whether or not mine does that (I assumed not because it’s a pseudo-handbrake, but who knows).

nickewen – Member
If you leave in drive and put handbrake on engine still runs wasting fuel.

If you put in neutral and put handbrake on engine still runs wasting fuel.

Ya, I doubt you are going to save much.

Not too sure about park… will report back.

If the engine is running it needs to consume fuel …

Does the engine always run in park or would stop/start kick in? That’s what I need to report back on..

Anyone seen those stupid Audi A6 / A8 sweeping rear LED indicators?

Very distracting (in a bad way) and not as clear as regular on / off blinking. Really hope other car makers don’t start using them. We’ve got the type approval regs at work – must have a read sometime to see how they manage to be legal.

Pretty sure auto hold on the Passat does not leave the lights on, and I use it to avoid the dazzle.

I would also not like to use park on a hill because the car rolls back onto the peg that goes in the cog, and it can make it rather difficult to get out.

Incidentally – if lights are brighter nowadays, I wonder how many lives it has saved by better illuminating obstacles/poorly lit cyclists/kids/pedestrians? Drivers can certainly see more with better lights.

Something that is getting me irked are the indicators on – I think – current VAG cars that are embedded within the main light. You just can’t be sure if it’s definitely blinking yellow or not. I’m naturally an ‘assume they aren’t going to tell you where they fancy going’ type of person so always wait, but surely the designer who came up with this needs sacked.

Dont put it in park as you have to go through reverse and the person behind will likely shit themselves when the car in front suddenly has its reverse lights on.

All for a split second they’re on for? Never had any problem with that.

The look of horror on folks face when you hit reverse instead of 1st is comic.

On my landy its quite often. You can tell as soon as the stick goes home its not in 1st but the number of horns you get for doing it.

Not really finding any issues with full LED headlights, in fact I’m finding them less of an issue than xenon or conventional bulb with projector-type lenses, because those cause considerable colour fringing at the edges, whereas LED’s don’t have lenses to cause fringing. There’s a SEAT dealer close to me and to where I work, and as a result there are a significant number of SEAT’s around with full LED lighting, and either on foot or driving there’s significantly less glare and dazzle than any other light system. The occasional Audi or Merc with full LED’s, ( and they are very occasional compared to the SEAT’s I see every day), don’t seem to be anywhere near as problematic as xenon or projector lights.
Or those ghastly blue-tinged lights the Saxo boom box crowd are so fond of fitting. Bloody awful things.

Mine are a bit odd, as when I use the side lights or full beam the DLR’s switch themselves off, turn out they are too bright when both sets are on, pretty sure other car’s don’t do that.

LMT, Daytime running lights have to either dim or shut off fully when the main lights (sidelights, dips or main beam) are on. It’s an ECE legal requirement* as the Candela light output is too high and the beam too dispersed and unfocused for night driving and causes issues for other road users.

* I know far too much about this as I used to design them

A lot of them just dim, I’ve only ever seen the ds3 where they go off. Saying that lots of Audi drivers my way!!