Can you see images of stuff in your head?

Yes , everyone can cant they?

At my practice we’ve got some architects working on designing a revision of our satellite practice. They bought some plans for us to see some of the solutions they’ve come up with so far. One of the GP partners could not get her head around the drawings at all, and we had to make some crude 3d versions on the white board so she could get an idea, and even then she struggled. Architects are going to do all future plans as 3d models to make it clearer.

I always do well with the bits of IQ tests that ask you how you’d rotate a shape to fit in a hole, or which shape matches another or is its opposite if they’re rotated differentially on a plane. I pretty much always do badly on any bits of the test that rely on applied mathematics.

How strange, i’ve just looked up the apple test and low and behold I can’t “see” an apple. Show me a 2D technical drawing and I can imagine it, a map i can imagine the landscape.

I can imagine lots of things but always ‘narrated’ and have a permanent inner monologue running.

A sort of tangent really, in inner monologue terms. I heard something interesting discussed about ‘mental chatter’ in relation to self criticism and general happiness  – the telling off you give yourself when you make mistakes or things go wrong.

It was to do with changing ‘I’ to ‘you’ in reference to yourself when that happens. So instead of your internal monologue saying ‘I can’t believed I poured all that cyanide into the canal – I’m such an idiot’ you’ll generally live a happier life if you try to change that to  saying to yourself “I can’t believe you poured all that cyanide into the canal – you’re such an idiot’. You’re still aiming that criticism at yourself so it’s a sort of trivial difference – you’re still an idiot and you know you are. But somehow that distancing to ‘you’ makes a big difference. Thats quite an easy thing to suggest but if course those moments of self criticism happen in times of surprise, stress, fear, shock and so on so I’m not sure how easy an thing it would be to consciously  apply that change.

Its an odd aspect of your internal monologue becuase I don’t think you congratulate yourself in that way – you’re never verbally telling yourself that you’re getting things right, doing things well, in the same conversational way, it seems only to be a reflex to things going wrong.

I’ve always recognised that I’m fortunate to be quite robust mentally, carry stress well in particular, and I know thats luck and that its just my luck up to now and not my luck tomorrow or next week or next year. But when I heard that article it struck me that I always instinctively say/hear ‘you’ in those situations and I think I always have done.

So sorry about the whole canal poisoning thing – but you’ll be happy to know I’m over it.

I realised a little while ago that I have aphantasia, I shut my eyes and there’s just black. I don’t think in images, but I can remember things very clearly and describe details, so my brain is storing this information, but not showing it to me.

I do dream in images, but that’s a different bit of the brain

Re drugs – yep it was feelings rather than hallucinations. Tbh psychedelics were never a great experience for me

I also don’t have an inner monologue, I don’t think in words, more like feelings. I read in words and if I know the person’s voice I read it in that. Having met binners once all his posts I read are in his voice. My generic reading voice isn’t my own accent though.

All this doesn’t mean I’m not creative, or technical. I can take things apart and put them back together quite easily. I can draw things from memory, even if I can’t visualise it

Yep, I can also visualise stress/strain/load paths in objects and fluid dynamics as cavitations play a large part in my industry.

Can’t play the triangle or maracas

 I can draw things from memory, even if I can’t visualise it

Its interesting, cos my head is full of images, but nothing will translate from brain to drawing. I can copy really well, but not draw from imagination at all

The two can sort of balance each other out so instead of having a video you can have a step by step guide of what you want to do.

I’m either lucky or cursed, i get a full visual image AND an internal dialogue telling me whats going on. Recently spent a couple of hours trying to explain the circular nature of our next gen HMI and how we should crosslink between related pages without going up and then back down the structure. I was explaining it to the guy who designed the framework… Though i do come from a pure hardware background, and very complicated hardware at that!

my maths is poor.

Compared to my colleagues, mine is poor too. I made sure to get to a level where other people do the maths for me as soon as possible. (2 years)

I’m also terrible at languages (my own and others) and music, art stuff.

A good friend of mine has no internal dialogue AND no images either… Which i find weird.

As an illustrator, if someone gives me a brief then I sit and have a think about it for a bit and by the time I start the actual physical act of drawing it, I’ve already got a really clear picture in my head of exactly what it will look like when It’s finished, even if it’s quite abstract.

As a graphic designer I work with clients who can’t even visualise changing a typeface on something without you actually having to physically do it and show them

It baffles me as I visualise everything so clearly, but then I remember that I’m useless at anything else other than playing with crayons.

Can you picture an uneaten greggs sausage roll binners?

Or is there always a bite out of it?

I struggle to picture the inside of a crunchie.

I can visualise things, but I think it’s quite weak, it feels easily overpowered by actual visual stimulus, even if that’s what you see when your eyes are closed in a dark room.

I have Aphantasia to, I can’t really visualise things apart from (sometimes) fleeting parts of an image (and if I try and focus on that and make it into a complete image it just goes away)

I find it incredible and fascinating how differently we all think.

At risk of going off on a tangent, does anybody else have synethesia? In my head, letters and words all have different colours (totally useless, but it makes books look pretty). I assumed everyone else saw words like this and it wasn’t until I was about 35 that I found that everyone I know sees black letters on a page instead.

Reading about it it’s not uncommon and lots of musicians see colours when they hear music which helps them compose. Far more useful than me thinking the letter ‘T’ is a nice shade of blue!

I can sort of imagine things, but not clearly, and certainly not well enough to be able to ‘see’ an image ‘projected’ onto a piece of paper and draw it. I am good at technical drawing, I’m almost obsessive about accuracy, so when I was working in print and publishing it was a major benefit.
I’m fairly good at working out answers to issues with mechanical items, and I do have long internal monologues as well.
I have a terrible memory for names and languages, but I can recognise someone from years ago.

I wonder what an aphantasic would see or experience if given a psychedelic drug, feelings rather than images?

That’s an odd one, I was given a small lump of resin to chew because I wouldn’t smoke it mixed with tobacco, and I was looking through a big book on the works of Gaudi in Barcelona, and I was seeing extraordinary things in some of the photos, one of the ceramic covered walls in Parc Guell became a picture of an African savanna with one of those flat-topped acacia trees with some giraffes, and a Masai warrior in the foreground holding a spear! I can still see it now, nearly forty years later. Go figure, as they say. *shrugs*

I think some of you need to read ‘born on a blue day’

Its proper weird how the brain works. My other word mental trick which if its related to the Aphantasia I have no idea is that i’m a REALLY fast reader, like twice/three times faster than pretty much anyone I have ever met.  Was a issue at school especially when we did group or class reading and the teachers were convinced I wasn’t reading at all.

The clients binners mentions who wouldnt be able to visualise a new typeface. That would 100% be me. Unless I can actually see it in front of me it might as well just be guesswork.

I can see things in my mind, not brilliantly, can just about memorise a map and read it in my head for a short bike ride.

I wonder what an aphantasic would see or experience if given a psychedelic drug, feelings rather than images?

They can still see out of their eyes so I suspect the visual experience would be broadly similar. I assume the psychedelic would alter their thoughts in the same way as a hyperphantasic would experience, but it wouldn’t alter the images in their mind because there might not be any.

Aspie. nuff said.

Though I’m kind of shocked that people cant see objects in 3D

What about very very long term memory ? as in can you picture a room in a house or street from 40 whatever years back and then navigate around it ?

So many can think pics in 3D. but what about 4D

It seems from the apple test that I’m borderline aphantastic. It explains a few things.

I find it extremely hard to picture landscapes and other physical things described in books which is frustrating.

What about very very long term memory ? as in can you picture a room in a house or street from 40 whatever years back and then navigate around it ?

But I have a very strong memory for things like this. I don’t need to close my eyes to do it at all.

I cannot see things in my head, even faces of people I know really well – they just don’t appear although I’ll recognise them the instant I see them.  I’m an architectural technician, if someone rings up from site and tries to explain a problem they are having I just wont be able to see it.  I need a photo or even better a site visit.

I struggle with driving in unfamiliar places unless I have sat nav running as I can only recall one or maybe two direction steps from a printed guide or a map.  Even if someone asks me directions to somewhere I know really well I’ll have to concentrate really hard to visualise the route in my head.  I’d usually have to travel through it step by step with my eyes shut until I get where they want to go!

Blimey I sound like a right disaster!

That apple test… Like can people really properly ‘see’  the apple? That’s mind blowing to me really.  I think my inner monologue is pretty much yeah its an apple, trust me….. but nowt visual in the slightest.

The long term memory is weird.  I couldnt picture anything about where I grew up but I could write down a description and I can still find my way around the woods I grew up in pretty much without trying.

I can only recall one or maybe two direction steps from a printed guide or a map.

I almost used an entire phone battery yesterday trying to use Trailforks riding in unfamiliar territory. I was constantly checking the directions I couldn’t memorise.

Yes, I’ve done that as well!

I find this fascinating

No, in short – I can’t disassemble or deconstruct or indeed construct things in my head and I struggle with number sequences also as in I forget where I ‘got to’ if I’m doing mental arithmetic

I can see things that I’m familiar with though so very strong memories I guess, and I can recollect from a very early age and replay moments, so feelings, sights, sometimes smell and what was said (I have memories from my 1st birthday)

As for internal dialogue, it’s not so much a dialogue but a conversation but two way, bit devils advocate kind of thing like I’m talking to someone else (you, not I) – think this comes from when I used to run through what lessons I’d have on a given day (what are you doing today, I have maths, English etc…) that does feel weird and I’ve always been pretty sure it’s just me…

I can’t see things in my mind, I just get a vague understanding (and I think that that’s just black & white, I can’t visualise colour either). On the apple test I’m a 4-5.

I’ve struggled with mental health conditions all my life and assumed that it was just another aspect of a dysfunctional (and medicated) mind. I also have a shockingly bad memory and ability to retain things (although I’m not unintelligent & quite a deep thinker I simply don’t retain facts).

I was shocked to learn that some people don’t think in words! Like my entire thought process is basically a narration.

My thought processes are almost totally verbal to the point of not being able to quieten it down (some of my mind’s quietest times are when I’m out on my bike).

Yes, always been able to do it as you describe. I also can take flat images at different angles and translate those into 3-D ‘images’ in my head.

Me too. My ‘minds eye’ is like a CAD programme..I can rotate, zoom, and explode technical drawings in my mind.

I can also ‘mock up’ 3d models, and ‘test them out’ in my mind too.

Like many, however, I’m rubbish with other languages, and can’t draw or do music!

DrP

I almost used an entire phone battery yesterday trying to use Trailforks riding in unfamiliar territory. I was constantly checking the directions I couldn’t memorise.

That’s a skill that comes and goes if you work on it (or don’t!).

I used to have a reasonably photographic memory for maps. Not completely but I always had a very good sense of direction. I spent years as a kid in the front seat of the car doing map reading for my Mum as she drove us on holidays (remember map reading…?!) and then in teenage / early 20’s doing route plotting on OS maps. I love maps. Used to be able to name about 200 of the London tube stations on a blank map and I’ve done blank street maps, filling in the street names. London especially. Years of commuting and couriering in London in the 90’s.

That skill is definitely far less refined now that I rely on Google Maps, a Garmin GPS cycle computer and tools like Strava. It’s very much a use-it-or-lose-it thing. Or it is for me at least. I’m still not bad at navigating by stars although the second I don’t recognise something, I just reach for Google SkyMap rather than try and work it out.

I remember being in the cadets at school on night nav exercises (way before GPS / smartphones etc) and just knowing the way immediately and being constantly frustrated by other kids who were barely able to find their arse with both hands.

I think some of you need to read ‘born on a blue day’

Brains are weird.  For me numbers also have shapes 🙂

is that i’m a REALLY fast reader, like twice/three times faster than pretty much anyone I have ever met.

Me too.  I can read a light novel at 100+ pages an hour.  Couple of hours to read a book.  I have a visual memory so I don’t think the two are linked

I can’t visualise things in my mind at all and don’t have much in the way of memories of events or places. No issues hallucinating when younger though but my eyes were open at the time. I’m also good at remembering facts, figures, lyrics and useless information. Love reading but don’t really visualise what I’m reading. Just like a good story.

I have a visual memory so I don’t think the two are linked

Do you spell by the letters or the shape of the word? If you asked me to spell something I would need to picture the word and work out the letters that fit the shape.

Interesting thread! I teach undergraduate chemistry, where most representations of molecules (in textbooks, research papers, written on whiteboards etc) are in 2D, even though they are 3D objects. In many cases the 2D representation is sufficient, but where it becomes important to relate the written 2D structure to the actual 3D shape of a molecule, I’d say that around 20-30% (an estimate from my experience of small group teaching) find this process really challenging. We encourage the use of model kits to help with this problem (and they are still allowed in some of our exams).

I am very poor at spelling and often have to see it written to know if the spelling is right or wrong.  I think I see letters not shapes for words tho

That’s a skill that comes and goes if you work on it (or don’t!).

I used to have a reasonably photographic memory for maps. Not completely but I always had a very good sense of direction. I spent years as a kid in the front seat of the car doing map reading for my Mum as she drove us on holidays (remember map reading…?!)

I did night rally navigation in my 20s. Quite high pressure, but I enjoyed that. The thing is you’re looking at the map constantly so it’s easy.

another similar one.  Do you know where north is?  I have to or I get all twitchy and most of the time I do.  I find it incomprehensible that people do not do this or know which way is north

No idea where north is. I’d love to be able to visualise stuff in the way some of you describe. It sounds great.

I’d like to be able to spell and i would love a little artistic ability.   You dont get everything.  Some. of these things seem almost mutually exclusive.  One is that if you can do mental arithmetic you cannot tell left from right instinctively.   About a 90 % correlation I  believe.

Brains are weird

I’d like to be able to spell and i would love a little artistic ability. You dont get everything. Some. of these things seem almost mutually exclusive. One is that if you can do mental arithmetic you cannot tell left from right instinctively. About a 90 % correlation I believe.

You. Are. Chrisopher, walken. And…

..I claim? my. £5.

Edit:

But too be fair, I have to edit my posts 9 times out of ten for spelling/punctuation  errors…it’s not that I can’t spell, it’s that I try to rush my typing and have to go back and correct it. I can’t seem to just slow down and type properly in the first place.

.

I did the Apple test – a big fat 5…..

Do you know where north is? I have to or I get all twitchy and most of the time I do. I find it incomprehensible that people do not do this or know which way is north

Always. Can find it in seconds by half a dozen different methods, day or night.

The one time I got confused was when I was in Australia where obviously the sun is not in the south at midday, it’s in the **** north like a devious little ****.

Went wrong once. Was thoroughly mortified by this error.

I can visualise stuff pretty/very well, I can spell pretty well too, as I can ‘see’ if the word looks correct. However, as I’ve got older, that skill seems to have faded a little.
The big thing, I’ve found is that my visualising bit of my brain must use lots of (or increasingly more) Brain CPU – to the point that if I’m driving, I have to avoid any conversation that would involve thinking about 3D space – like ‘Hey, do you think we should move the wardrobe into the other corner?’ would bring up such a very image of the room in question that I’d find I no longer had brain space to look at the road. Like when people in films look up and have cartoon bubble images of thoughts. So we now have a ‘No 3D space conversations in the car (or on the bike)’ rule…

As for finding north, TJ, I’ve always known vaguely where north was in houses I’ve lived in. However, I only recently worked out the whole arc of things rotating around the pole star thing. Like if I saw the moon or a constellation overhead, even if I could see the pole star, I could never tell you where it would set… (I’ve worked it out now…)