Buying a bike. Heart or Head?

I bought my first ebike 8 years ago.

I’m lost for words.

I’d do what sharkattack did (in fact I recently have, but not the same bike). Long travel frame and fork. All components (esp tyres) chosen for the downs only. No motor/batteries. Can absolutely still pedal it up anything… just at chat and chill speed… and then a total blast on the downs. If you’re thinking of your new n+1, can heartily recommend for downhill smiles without having to always have uplift access to enjoy it.

Heart, always heart! Cycling’s clearly a passion of yours so why would you buy a white goods bike that doesn’t give you a zing? You want something that you’ll look over your shoulder at and it will make you ride more. There will always be a more refined bike but you won’t love it so won’t use it as much.

I’ve done the head thing too many times and always end up moving them on quickly. They were perfect for a discipline, but never made me feel good; Trek Superfly, Specialized Enduro, Giant Trance, Vitus Escape, etc.
The bike I’ve kept the longest? My single speed rigid Stooge! It just makes me feel good and it’s fun to sometimes ride something inappropriate.

Your others bikes are ‘built not bought’, so why would that change now? Go for your heart (and I look forward to seeing the build 😀 ).

I’ve tried a Kenevo SL and that would be what I pick out of that or a DH bike.

Assuming you buy bikes because you like to ride and not to keep in the garage then whatms the point of having a shiny bike you’ll just keep in the garage and admire? You might as well have the Kenevo that’s still good at DH but will actually get used and just adapt your riding style and trails to suit.

Ah sure…here is the thing. If you want a bike and can afford it, why not just get it. Dh bikes are awesome. Pretty niche but a lot of fun.

At nearly 40 working on my fitness would be my main objective.

At nearly 60 the thought of riding a Ebike through choice rather than necessity fills me with dread

Its both surely?

The head identifies the type of bike (XC, trail, dh etc) and spec, then you demo a load that fit the spec and the one that makes you smile most (or better yet – laugh like a drain) gets bought.

In this case – the question doesn’t really make sense as an e-trail bike and a DH bike are in no way comparable. It feels more like “I want to spaff some cash, what can I buy?” (not suggesting this is a bad thing, but be honest about it), and to be honest, as I already have a bunch of nice bikes, I’d spend the money going cool places to ride them instead.

ps – I’m with Alpin. 50 here and as I’m neither elderly or disabled, I’m a long, long, way off considering an ebike of any description. They’ve absolutely zero appeal to me – take something simple, efficient, mechanical and add a shitload of weight and complication to achieve exactly the same result. If you can’t have “fun” on a normal bike, any normal bike, the issue is probably you, not the bike. Anyway, off topic rant over…

Riding e-bikes, whilst fun, just isn’t as challenging in the same way. Technical climbs are now just point and shoot, monster truck through and arrive at the top, in order to ride down.

Whist a full power ebike may be like this the Kenevo SL is a different beast and somewhat niche, whilst the assistance is there, if the expectation is that you’ll be blatting up cliff faces you’ll be in for a shock.

Having owned one for around 8 months now I’d say it’s more like having a super enduro bike with enough of a motor to take the edge off the flats (eco mode) and take the sting out of the ups (trail and turbo if required), whilst still providing a near regular bike experience on the downs.  For me it works really well.  My riding group is non ebike and favours gravity riding, I usually keep it in eco or off and we happily co-exist.  I also ride a fair bit on my own and the motor helps me get in more laps (I’m time poor, mtb is my weekend fun so this is a real plus).

If I was riding just trails, I’d buy a regular trail bike, if I was riding just uplifts I’d have a park bike, I don’t ride my mtb for fitness (I have a couple of drop bar bikes for that).  I came from a Mk2 Megatower and the KSL was a heart purchase of a 1.1 with a big discount, the Megatower has gone as too big an investment to not ride most of the year, I now have half a MK1 Megatower as an uplift bike which shares wheels and forks with the KSL (as I’m in the fortunate position of being able to do this, and whilst hugely capable, the KSL isn’t ideal to be chucking on and off an uplift trailer or chairlift).

e-trail bike and a DH bike

KSL is a 170/170 ‘lightweight’ ebike.  Probably the nearest thing to a motor assisted DH on the market rather than being a trail bike.

If you can’t have “fun” on a normal bike, any normal bike, the issue is probably you, not the bike.

‘Fun’ is subjective, as are the levels of ‘fun’ an individual may obtain from any of the many types of bikes that are available.

Both, depending which bike.

My enduro bike is a Bird and, with all due respect, I doubt those are a “heart” purchase for many people.

My trails bikes are Oranges, chosen for how much fun they are and because I love the look of them as well.

Albeit they do have some sensible aspects to them as well.

I did buy a Stumpy Evo frame this year and it looked like it ticked all the boxes, but the seat tube was a squeeze. I probably could have lived with it, but I just wasn’t feeling it anyway.

My enduro bike is a Bird and, with all due respect, I doubt those are a “heart” purchase for many people.

My enduro bike is a Nukeproof, bought with my head during the fire sale. It’s a very good bike… does absolutely nothing for me when I look at it. Would rather have the Bird or Airborne that were top of the list before the sale happened.

My trail bike is a Ragley (bought well before the sale, but still did very well via Tri_Sports_Resort) which was bought with heart on a whim. Still does more for me than the NP (even though I’m very much aware they are both from the same company)

Type of bike – head. Optimal for what you actually ride most of the time, rather than aspirational.

Specific model of bike – heart.

^ this nails it for me.

IMO there’s greater chance of ending up with the ‘wrong’ bike if you let your heart decide on the type of bike, e.g. my heart would love a DH bike again, but realistically I don’t have the time or skills to do one justice. Once you’ve used your head to decide what type of bike you want, that’s when you need to listen to your heart.

I’ve several personal examples of when I’ve followed my head or heart and ended up with the wrong bike…e.g. Norco alu HT when I really wanted another steel HT: Norco only stayed for 12 months then replaced with the BFe Max I should’ve bought in the first place.

And – currently – my head is telling me my G16 is more bike than I need, but my heart desires a newer G1…

It has to be head and heart, you have to want it. Every bike I bought with just my heart turned out to be a mistake, though I didn’t know this till spending the cash…

So if the climbs are going to be at best, point and shoot, why not go full uplift only

Unless your riding easy uphill trails, that doesn’t really happen, especially if you want any decent mileage of out the battery, and just for BWD

If you watch video, he also make mention of uplift, 10x runs at 5 minutes (aprox) during a day is 50minutes of riding, vs potentially all day (ok the capacity of the battery) on an e-bike. There is also a motorcycle trying and failing one of the climbs they do, so having more power is not always the answer

If you purely want fitness, why aren’t you purely swimming or just walking, why bother wasting time or money on cycling? Is it maybe you enjoy cycling, as it’s fun? ;D

We either buy toys without much reason or we very clear why we want something. Some churn through stuff and some don’t. Some are happier churning, some are happier with the right thing lasting a decade of use.

Your money, your call, don’t feel it has to be justified to anyone but yourself.

You’re not even 40 yet and you’re already giving up on the challenge of riding by buying an ebike.

That makes me sad.

Harden TF up, FFS.

Ebikes are for old codgers who still want to get out or for shopping bikes.

I shouldn’t rise to it but as someone who enjoys pedalling and the fitness element as much as anyone bar the most type A roadie, I couldn’t disagree more. I had a great time on a particularly good e-bike not long ago. I could be maxed out at the top of a climb and by the bottom of each descent. It was as involving as a rigid SS or whatever other bike you could mention, just in a different way. It’s all in the rider’s attitude?

There are some daft attitudes on this thread with their ‘giving up’ attitude to ebikes.

Without going off telling a story about why I got an ebike in the first place, I’ve got 5 bikes one of which is an ebike. Of the 1100 miles I’ve ridden so far this year for leisure, roughly 400 have been on the ebike.

Ebikes are great, if you want to hate them, fine – you don’t have to spout nonsense about them though. Don’t want to try one, fine – your loss, they are great fun

Someone should drop Peaty a message and ask him why he’s given up 😉

riding bikes is fun.  looking at them less so.  Go for what you’ll use most.  maybe even a kenevo ff with triple clamps that you can take the battery out of for uplift days.  Neil Donaghue runs that canyon thing as a dh bike.

DH bikes don’t make sense unless you’re racing imo but that’s a whole other discussion.  How many full day out would you actually do?  If you had no commitments then plenty of weekends i guess?  Friends to do it with?

I stopped DH’ing because enduro bikes got better, The places to take DH bikes  back then in the uk with uplifts was limited, too far away and racing was mostly queueing and decent series were getting fewer.  Part of me thinks I’d love to take up DH racing again but I was only any good when I could ride and race often.  I’m too far south to get involved properly.  The Enduro bike let me spend more time on the bike riding UK DH style trails in Surrey and then adventuring to Wales etc.

The ebikes lets me enjoy that with my time constraints.  Still try to ride as fast as ever but i can get to the top quicker and go again.  so more descending.  And I don’t think that’s giving up.  It actually gets me out because slogging up a hill by myself is boring and tbh, i just would not ride (I don’t need it for the fitness).

And then why does every thread that mentions ebikes get the same old crap added by those who have no clue.

All the stuff about not earning your turns, challenge of uphill’s, fitness etc.  just wilfully ignorant…

Get off STW and go riding and see what most people are riding.

Someone should drop Peaty a message and ask him why he willingly rides all those 15 grand bikes that Santa Cruz shower him with every year 😉

FTFY.

FTFY.

Whilst my comment was slightly tongue in cheek and I’m fully aware that SC give him nice bikes to ride, he’s a grown man and can actually ride what he wants. He’s a pretty down to earth guy, I’m sure he’ll give you an honest answer – drop him a message and ask him if he’s given up or just rides them because SC tell him to. Maybe he actually enjoys them, free or not?

Defo go with the heart if you are spending a chunk of money. Buying white goods is for functional bikes, bargains and lower end imo. The sort of bike you can let go without any worries or high financial cost and move on to the next.

I’m with Alpin. 50 here and as I’m neither elderly or disabled, I’m a long, long, way off considering an ebike of any description. They’ve absolutely zero appeal to me – take something simple, efficient, mechanical and add a shitload of weight and complication to achieve exactly the same result. If you can’t have “fun” on a normal bike, any normal bike, the issue is probably you, not the bike.

What a load of guff ?

As a half decent XC & CX racer, even I can see (and benefit) from the advantages of riding one, when I’m pushed for time, tired or just want to go & lap out some trails, which is great fun.

If you can’t see it as fun, maybe the issue is you, not the bike.

They’ve absolutely zero appeal to me

Me either, I’ve no interest in actually owning one. Loads of fun to take one out for a day though and I get the appeal. As well as those who don’t have the fitness but want to get up hills I think they appeal to riders with higher technical/handling abilities because they really let you push that aspect hard, and that’s a lot of the fun in MTB.

If you’re not excited by the prospect of an ebike get the dh bike. Especially if you head to the alps every year and get some uplift weekends in. You already have decent bikes for the regular riding I imagine. I managed just fine in the alps on my 180/160 enduro bike, and I manage just fine at dyfi etc on it, but if I could afford an extra bike I’d absolutely love a dh bike for that kind of riding, something like the new V10 or maybe one of the RAAW dh bikes. I have a full fat kenevo, it does a job when I’m time poor, knackered from the gym or out with mates on theirs…..but I much prefer riding my regular bike.

I have two MTBs, a 160mm full-sus ebike and a 160mm singlespeed hardtail. I bought the ebike almost six years ago to speed up / save energy on my commute and to allow me to fit in riding in shorter spaces of time because I had two children (now three) and a business to run.

I bought the singlespeed two years ago because I wanted a 29” hardtail to replace my previous 27.5” with geometry like my ebike. The singlespeed thing was just a stupid experiment because of the sliding dropouts, which I’ve discovered I really really like.

I think they’re the perfect maximum fun pair of MTBs. The ebike gets more fun out of less time or limited energy (let’s be realistic, even at 40ish you can’t ride hard for hours every day, that’s why pros are younger, especially when your “time off” involves child wrangling). The singlespeed hardtail gets more fun out of most trails (until it doesn’t!) but doesn’t have gears or a motor to help when you run out of human power.

If I had more than two MTBs to choose between I’m not sure I could handle the decision making (or the maintenance!)

Regarding the original question, your head needs to be the inquisitor but your heart needs to provide the answers.

What I’ve learnt from my ~15 years of adult MTBing is that something which is essentially enduro bike geometry from a few years back (not quite as long and slack as now but not far off) works well for me everywhere I ride, even XC pedals on tame trails. And I like pretty knobbly tyres. And good suspension!

A downhill bike that you are using a weekend a month plus 2 weeks in the alps seems like probably one of the more heavily used DH bikes.

And given the existing fleet doesn’t seem like there will be a time where you dont want to do a local or more tame ride because you dont have a suitable bike.

So definitely go for the heart.

Heart. Bikes are fun. Had a similar dilemma last year and bought a mullet Switch 6 when everyone panicked over Orange and got a great bargain. It got me back into uplift, downhill days and having a great time. Or just get both if you can afford it.

I was out on my Rise today in Caerphilly. It may be ‘just’ an Orbea Rise, but honestly the things blows my mind every single time i ride it.

I’d not been over here before so it was a bit of exploring and wandering, but it’s damn hilly round there, however it just went up and down with massive fun. If the others and more expensive ones are ‘better’ then they must just being amazing beyond words.

I was debating a Status DH180 recently as well as a Scott Gambler, but the reality is i won’t hit things i can’t hit now on my Status 160 just because i’m on a bigger bouncer, so i shelved it.

Add to that the reality that i’m not really a Dyfi kind of bloke, i’m more a FoD, maybe an Antur, Hopton, BPW etc… I just don’t see the DH getting a look in. It would have spent more of it’s time in the van as a spare DH for the lad rather than a bike for me.

Ebikes open up different trails you’d never explore, different places you’d never look at and tracks you’d never ride. You don’t ‘see’ it until you get one and then on a ride you go “oh, i’ve never been this way before” and next thing you know you’re in a different place and riding something you’ve never seen.

Ebikes open up different trails you’d never explore, different places you’d never look at and tracks you’d never ride. You don’t ‘see’ it until you get one and then on a ride you go “oh, i’ve never been this way before” and next thing you know you’re in a different place and riding something you’ve never seen.

You know you can do that on any bike, right? In fact you can do it without range anxiety or whatever it’s called. I don’t really have an axe to grind, but really, you can do all that stuff with or without a motor. I guess with one you can do it more quickly, but is that what mountain biking’s about?

Anyway, I’m sure the OP will buy the hell bike they want to regardless of what people think or say. And hopefully enjoy it with r without a motor.

Every mtb I’ve bought since 1987 has been with my heart. Always bought on impulse and only had three that I didn’t get on with.

Go with your heart. Worse case is you can always move it on.

You know you can do that on any bike, right?

Not really. Sometimes hills are simply too long, too stepp, too rocky to get up (for me anyway) on a MTB

The route I did today I’d guess would have taken 3x longer with a manual and I’d have walked 50% of it.

Maybe that says more about my riding than anything, but I’m not exactly terrible

You know you can do that on any bike, right? In fact you can do it without range anxiety or whatever it’s called. I don’t really have an axe to grind, but really, you can do all that stuff with or without a motor. I guess with one you can do it more quickly, but is that what mountain biking’s about?

Sounds like you do.  Of course you can but you’re more likely to see where something goes when you can get back to the top quicker than you would if you’ll end up having to pedal for ages, having wasted time.  range anxiety impacts unassisted too.  what is mountain biking about exactly?

Not sure I understand how people think they are used.  I use mine to go faster.  not to supplement effort, if that makes sense

“You know you can do that on any bike, right? In fact you can do it without range anxiety or whatever it’s called.”

You can but if your life is anything like mine then range anxiety isn’t an issue, it’s time anxiety! I can’t just go out for as long as I want (at this point in my life). If the battery dies then I might be late back but on any ebike with gears, you just drop into a lower gear and go uphill slower if the power is off – they’re far from unrideable with a dead battery.

I’m far more bothered by the rise of costly electric shifting on MTBs than the option of having an motor to make uphill things faster/easier/both.

Also, I know singlespeeds are way out of fashion but I heartily recommend everyone gives one a go (again). The way they change your focus from speed to flow downhill, from going fast/slow & stomping/spinning uphill to just getting it done, and it’s all so quiet and simple and rewarding because it is harder but not as hard as you might think. With flats as well. It’s like being a child again!

Ny point is that you can do all that without assistance, or with if, with gears or not, though you might have to push more. There are loads of positive things about e-mtbs, but I’m not convinced that they suddenly confer a magical ability to explore. I know mine doesn’t. Or at least not any more than with any other bike.

Mostly i’m a little perplexed, but hey, if it works that way for you, then great, all good.

Since I bought a KSL I’ve not really ridden a thing else, it’s a really capable trail bike but with travel and geometry to winch and plummet on the good stuff too. Using the battery sparingly I’ve had 1400m climbing out of it over 50+ km.

Uplifting is good but places to do it are limited in number, ebikes make that available in different places.

Mostly i’m a little perplexed, but hey, if it works that way for you, then great, all good.

I’m with Weeksy tbh – there are definitely times where I’m more inclined to shoot off somewhere that I wouldn’t on the normal bike. Be that due to time/legs/can’t be bothered constraints or whatever reason.

But, different strokes and all that

KSLs pedal pretty well with the motor off.

I think you should get an Atherton dh bike because you seem to buy nice bikes.

I’m going to Machynlleth in a few weeks for something else anyway, may have to pay them a visit…

Though, the final purchase would more than likely be Steel. Might even be singlespeed.

Tora it is then, beautiful creations.