Hi all,

To put a long story short: sold smth on Pinkbike, posted 2 weeks ago 1st Class (not Recorded, no insurance, I know, not the brightest idea but these are the facts). The buyer claims that the item has not arrived yet and just now requested a refund.

Basically – what to do? I cannot yet start a claim with Royal Mail since 15 days need to pass after expected delivery date. So basically the item is formally still ‘in postage’ with unknown outcome. Probably it’s lost for good now. Do I issue a refund and swallow the loss? Or do I wait until the claim with Royal Mail comes through and then act based on the outcome?

I can probably refund now and start the claim with Royal Mail later but what if they somehow say that the item has been delivered?

I’d wait until I’d sorted out the claim with Royal Mail.

Suck it up and refund them.

+1

It’s your responsibility to make sure it arrives. The buyer may now want to purchase something else so why should he have to wait for his money?

Do you have proof of postage?

Did you offer recorded delivery at time of purchase?

Personally, I would advise the buyer you are putting a claim through Royal Mail – and for security, won’t be able to refund the money until they have reached a conclusion.

Too easy to claim ‘it’s not arrived yet’ and keep the item when it arrives (I’m not talking personally – just the moral compass of some people can be questionable… especially when it’s annonymous, online!)

jam bo +1

I have the proof of postage.

The postage details have not been discussed at all – we just used the term ‘postage’ and ‘£xx posted’. Now I obviously see that I should’ve discussed all the details including signed for and insurance but it’s too easy to be smart when it’s too late 🙂

On the other hand I’ve been buying and selling bike stuff for around 4 years now and not once there was a single issue with Royal Mail. And I’m speaking of hundreds of items here probably.

Generally I have no problems with the fact that it’s not insured and I’ll take a hit – after all it’s me who posted w/o cover. The only question is – it really is easy to claim ‘Not received’ as righfully mentioned above.

BTW, there’s still some default coverage from Royal Mail but what if they say ‘It’s been delivered and we are not paying anything’ in the end?

Suck it up and refund them.

I concur. It’s not their fault it’s not arrived, why should they have to bear the brunt of the loss?

How did the buyer pay and what did you sell?

Personally I would be hanging back with refund until you get your claim sorted through Royal mail.
Never had an issue with goods not getting delivered, so could be PB scammer trying his luck. It’s full of them!

It’s the law of averages then. The more items you send, the greater the chance that, eventually, one of them will go missing in transit. If you’ve never used “signed for” delivery all these years, then think how much you’ve saved in extra postage costs.

.

Yes he does have proof of postage. ^^

Paid by PayPal gift and it was a Manitou Evolver ISX-6 shock, sold for £120.

I do use Recorded eventually depending on the item cost but have become a bit more relaxed recently since never had any issues.

Just to re-iterate: I’m more than willing to refund if the buyer is genuine but what if not?

Not what you want to hear, but….
Refund the buyer (now, or after 15 days from postage and explain it MAY take this long).
After 15 days, make a claim via royal mail.
Consider recorded next time…

DrP

As PayPal can’t force you to refund the buyer, I’d hold it out.

If the buyer is genuine, they’ll understand – especially if you have proof of postage. (i.e. you’re not trying to scam them!)

EDIT: PPG doesn’t allow the sender (of money) to claim against the recipient.

but what if not?

problem you have is there’s no evidence on your side beyond ‘I handed it in at the post office’.

Does the Proof of Postage contain the weight of the item?

Shows to the buyer it was a genuine parcel containing his shock…

I think the buyer will need to fill out a report.

No. It’s the sellers responsibility/risk. The buyer has no contract with Royal Mail.

I think the buyer will need to fill out a report.

Seller’s responsibility to get the item to the buyer.

Well, there’s no evidence on their side at all.

My doubt is around the refund time: if Royal Mail say ‘it’s lost’ then it’s a refund and all the loss is on me. What if they say ‘it’s been delivered’ and I’ve already refunded?

Does anyone know what Royal Mail can say in such cases? Do they somehow track the normal 1st Class internally?

I think Royal Mail would just inform you they considered the package delivered – not sure how though. I’ll ask my F-in-L.. he’s a Postie.

The proof of postage contains postage class and price – I think weight can be figured out based on this.

Anyway, if I posted a stone of such weight and it would’ve arrived – that would be a totally different situation and it would probably be buyer posting all over the net 🙂

The thing is – I posted a shock and it’s missing.

Try contacting Royal mail and ask the questions you are asking on here.

If you have proof of postage good, but will RM cover £120 compensation?

What’s his PB username?

Do you have any reason to believe that the buyer has it and is pretending otherwise?

Think first class only covers you up to £32 (?) and even then they may say well your item’s worth more than that so we won’t cover it 🙁

My doubt is around the refund time: if Royal Mail say ‘it’s lost’ then it’s a refund and all the loss is on me. What if they say ‘it’s been delivered’ and I’ve already refunded?

If you didn’t send it “signed for” then there won’t be any proof of delivery. Refund the money and put a claim in. I hope you sold it for less than £46 otherwise you’ll lose out here too as that’s the limit for 1st class.

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/letters-parcels/sending-uk-letters-parcels/first-and-second-class-mail/first-class-faqs#12500220

Personally I would wait the 15 days- after all, that’s how long Royal Mail will wait before they consider it lost, so perhaps it’ll still arrive. But after that, refund.

I have to say, sending something thats worth £120 and NOT paying a couple of quid extra for insurance is madness.

We send a lot of small stuff out with Royal Mail. Things do go missing but *most* of them turn up eventually.

Royal Mail’s position is that it isn’t missing until until after 15 working days – it wouldn’t be unfair for you to take the same view.

Royal Mail’s position is that it isn’t missing until until after 15 working days – it wouldn’t be unfair for you to take the same view.

That’s fair. But it’s not on to make the buyer wait the further 4 weeks it may take Royal Mail to process the claim.

Thanks for all the opinions, guys.

The bottom line looks as follows to me:

a. If the buyer is genuine I’m OK to refund now – either way this needs to be done and the buyer will probably send the money again if the shock shows up.

b. If the buyer is a scammer then I’d better wait for Royal Mail claim – this is the only way to make sure I receive the default £46 cover on 1st Class postage or can prove the shock’s been delivered.

I really don’t have any grounds to believe the buyer is a scammer, TBH. But the idea of just sending away money after honestly posting the item is hard to get used to 🙂

And – yes, I’m agree that not paying insurance is not the best idea. For future cases, in order to make sure I get the insurance do I need to go with the claim first and really verify that it’s missing or do I just tell Royal Mail “It’s been lost” and they pay the money no questions asked?

Just to re-iterate: I’m more than willing to refund if the buyer is genuine but what if not?

You chose an untraceable form of postage. So you will never know. And it’s now irrelevant.

Postal Insurance, and “signed for” are to protect you, not the buyer.

So as you said earlier, you chose not to use that service, so now it’s on you to sort the situation out and refund the buyer.
He may be scamming you, he may be genuine, but you didn’t protect yourself so you will never know.

Sorry 🙁

If it’s worth more than about £40 I always send it special delivery or by some other insured/signed for service. Always keep proof of postage just in case it goes wrong.

Had the same problem with an e-bay buyer after years of sending stuff by normal post without any problems. He claimed the item never arrived and I had to refund him and make a claim from Royal mail. Looking later at this buyers’ ebay feedback it turns out he’d also claimed another 8 items from other sellers didn’t arrive so something dodgy there i think.

I’d wait until you can make a claim from RM then refund the buyer if the situation hasn’t changed. You’ll only get a max of £40 back from RM though.

Don’t Royal Mail give the money back in stamps?

What nealglover said.

Having been on the other end of this on an ebay purchase, I’d say it’s down to you to refund him and then make the claim. The onus was on you to get proof of postage and adequate insurance. The fact you didn’t was your risk, not his.

What Sprocketjockey said about Nealglover , not nice to hear but you left yourself open to this I’m afraid 🙁

Unless you can verify the buyer is legit I wouldn’t risk a refund just yet.

I have been flamed for expressing this view previously.

Wait the 15 days – that’s fair and reasonable. After that its refund time. I would be happy with this if I were the buyer (and legit).

I have had a couple of non received EBay sales in the past for items I’ve sold.

As a result I have made claims against Royal Mail & they have paid out on all occasions (3 in all).

If it’s a very cheap item they usually send stamps, with cheques for higher amounts.

Payments have usually been forthcoming about 3-4 weeks after I send the claim in.

I’ve usually ended up refunding the buyer before the RM money has been refunded.

I always send items non-recorded – RM can’t prove delivery that way, so it’s actually better if you need to claim. You get the same level of cover whether it is recorded or not.

Sounds like you’ve been very unlucky in this case – hopefully you’ll get some good fortune to balance it out.