Brighton Big Dog – Training

I think I gave you a compliment about the cleanliness of your bike. Looked like it should have been leant against the Peaslake bus shelter. If not you then someone else on an orange Soul.

GB

I think I gave you a compliment about the cleanliness of your bike. Looked like it should have been leant against the Peaslake bus shelter. If not you then someone else on an orange Soul.

If it was muddy it may have been mine, if not it was one of the other three!

Not muddy – half way round the lap and not a spot of mud on it.

Definitely not me, the bike and I were already muddy when I registered!

Some pics: http://www.rideagain.co.uk/v/Bike/BigDog12/

Yet another excellent BBD. After all that pre-race weather watching and tyre discussion it all turned out ok in the end. I ran with my “summer rubber” and by my second lap the course was running really well.

We were in the Mens Pairs (The Wagon Wheelers) and managed 8 laps, finishing 11th out of 79 pairs. Chuffed with that.

I was riding an orange / red Genesis Latitude, and was the one hooning it into the arena with 2 minutes to spare (didn’t know that at the time!) at the end of the race.

Ended up having to give up after 3.5hours. Had a cold this week and felt really week in the legs. Got back to my car and slept for an hour!! Really good course, can’t believe I’ve never ridden it before given how close it is to me. Really well organised event and was really taken aback by the quality of the prizes for not just 1st-3rd places but also 4th & 5th! I’ll be back next year for sure-unfinished business with this event. My brother in law who races a lot was equally impressed and is rearranging next year ls school holidays to ensure he is down here again with a few of our welsh mates.

Massive thanks to all involved in the organising and running of the event

Must only be me who thought I had made a great informed local choice by opting to go for mud tyres.

Also was I the only one who thought the roots were a flipin nightmare -and i’m a local.

Gee / CGG the way you describe it, it sounds like these were perfect conditions – having said that you both sound like you race a lot.

Were you the guys on carbon 29ers (scott / Spec / Santacruz) – all apparently race leaders!!! lol.

Never realised there were so many leaders in a race.

May be a touchy subject but can race leaders ask to come through even when this forces you to get off half way up a climb and then have to walk the rest – whats the accepted norm here. I am guessing you get off and accept your in a race with some very good riders

DC

Darkcyan – I was on a Salsa ti 650b and wasn’t leading, so wasn’t calling that other than the first 3 laps when I was leading. There can be more than 1 leader as there are lots of categories. It’s pretty usual that leaders call that IME. If you have just dropped the 2nd place team / rider and are trying to maintain a gap then passing swiftly becomes even more important. I wouldn’t expect someone to get off if they were riding, however it is useful to move slightly to one side of the trail. We did a lot of calling/encouragement up the steep bits of the climbs as people kept stalling half way up which is annoying as we then have to get off. If you’re not going to make it just have a little rest! I was really surprised by the amount of encouragement I got from backmarkers and how good people were on the whole about passing. It might have helped explaining the on your left/right calls at the rider briefing as there were a lot of novices who didn’t seem to understand what this means. There were a couple of real facepalm moments such as the rider who had stopped blocking the transition from the very steep DH chute onto the fire road. Much shouting there. There were also a few riders who thought that ‘on your left’ meant ‘slam on your brakes’ which made for some clenched moments on the faster DH sections!

Brilliant event, just glad it didn’t rain. It would make a brilliant XC race venue. Brilliant to have such rooty, technical trails. Reminded me of what Ashton Court was like pre-sanitisation. See you in 2013!

Thank you for the positive comments; we really enjoyed hosting the event for you again.

We have a post BigDog de-brief tonight and it would be really useful for me to collect any positive / negative feedback – you know, so we can continue to improve the event for you.

Cheers
Simon

Napalm / Simon (Catmur?): A big thanks to all the organisers. We had lots of friends and family down to watch and they all had a great day out. My parents even came down and got to see me on the podium, which totally made my day (it doesn’t happen often)

Yeah people were great about overtaking but I’d second what Gee said..wouldn’t hurt at all to have “on your left” mentioned in the briefing, as well as asking people walking their bikes up the climbs to give way to riders. I had to have words with one guy pushing his bike up the racing line on the Coldean climb (right where the rooty bit is) He seemed to think that because he couldn’t ride it, no one else would be able to… Took 3 requests for him to reluctantly move over. I could have done with that oxygen too….

Darkcyan: Indeed. I found the first 1.5 laps WELL sketchy (on Rocket Rons) Things improved rapidly after that though. It really is a *cracking* course once it’s dryish and that last singletrack descent down to the bombhole (A+E is that what it’s called?) is bloody brilliant.

Simon, the only tweak I can think of is to make the chicken run past the bombhole take more time than the bombhole! If you’d like us locals to cut that line before next year we’d be happy to do so.

DC, some of the quick locals I ride with also went for mud tyres on their first lap, and they’d ridden the course a couple of days before, so you weren’t alone! My mud tyres are v slow and a pain to seat tubeless and I never use true summer tyres so I stayed on my usual rubber, which I’m now convinced is almost perfect for Stanmer when it’s a bit greasy if you value safety and confidence over absolute rolling speed. This was me hitting the Big Dog Big Log (still can’t bunnyhop it but at least I don’t brake for it!)

Definitely not a carbon 29er! 😉 It’s an awesome weapon on everything but the climbs and is no worse at climbing than I am, so we’re well matched…

Great day out, even with my puncture/CO2 failure disaster lap :(. Haven’t raced at Stanmer for ages and had forgotten just how much fun the course is.

If any one here is the guy I loaned my Lezyne multi tool to on course, I’d quite like it back. Hung around the finish for a while after that lap but didn’t spot you coming back in.

Simon, the only tweak I can think of is to make the chicken run past the bombhole take more time than the bombhole!

+1

Napalm – sorry didnt see you about but I was looking!

The passing was a little annoying as some of the leaders just shouted and expected people to move out of the way and then no thanks after. Remember manners cost nothing! I did my best to get out of the way when possible and safe but was very annoyed when I was knocked off on Badgers. There are so many routes up and it was pretty clear where I was going and someone decided to try and get past at a point that was not big enough. We both came off and he ran off up the hill without a word, no sorry or even a why didn’t you let me through.

Oh and I was the bloke with cramp sat at the side of the course in random places with very pink sleeves

Can I add a few words on behalf of slower/less proficient riders?

I love to race, but I’m not as fast as the race leaders. If I can let someone past I definitely will, but I am not going to fling myself into the undergrowth, or prejudice my own race.

I know it’s frustrating when you get behind someone slower than you because it happens to me, and it’s particularly maddening when you have managed to pull away from someone in your category, and that person is now catching you because you are stuck behind a slow person. Happened to me quite a bit at Beastway. That’s racing though.

If I have to walk up a climb I will try to get to the side so other folk can ride the climb. I have been physically pushed out of the way by another rider, and it made me very angry. It was at Thetford and I was on a narrow part with no room to overtake and nowhere for me to go except for into a tree. Shouting “Rider!” should be a warning, not a command. I find it useful to nominate the side on which I intend to pass. I also speak politely, it’s amazing how much more helpful folk are when you are pleasant.

Slow riders pay for their entry in the same way as fast riders do, and are an intrinsic and necessary element of any race. They have hopes and aspirations just like the fast riders.

I think it would be helpful if every pre-race briefing included a few words on passing – to manage expectations of overtakers and overtakens and suggest a manner of communication: Left Side/Right Side/Please/Thanks/Could I come past please? etc.

On that note, I’m going up to Stanmer to ride the course – I was helping on Sunday so I didn’t ride. 😀

Karinofnine – funny you should say that as my brother in law was quite shocked at some peoples attitudes and found the faster riders in this event the rudest he’s come across in an event. He was more worried about people H&S on some of the decents and asked when you’re ready which I though was quite nice.

Phew was worried I pulled a funny face for the camera when I went over that log! I can stop worrying and now get on with my day knowing I look like I’m sh***ing myself!!!

Karinofnine – much better put than me, but exactly how I felt

BBD2012 was a great day like usual. I’m local and have been to all of them starting with the onderdog in 09 and team of 2 there after. We’ve never managed more than 5 laps as my team mate dosent get much time to ride but we are there for the fun more than anything else.

I’ve never had a problem getting out of the way for the fastest racers, there’s usually space somewhere not to hold them up too much and when I come up behind a slower rider I’ve not been held up too much (except on the 1st lap where it is very crowded).

I was relatively pleased with my laps (51min, 46min and 45min), although I was hoping for ~40min the conditions stopped that and also having a heavier bike than last year didn’t help. The timelaps somehow didn’t pick up my team mate going over the line on his 2nd lap so only shows us as done 4.

We will definately be back next year!

get the toilets before 12 please 🙂

Course was great, marshals great, prizes amazing (i didnt get any).

Nice mug.

Superb – huge thanks to all involved

twojumpers – timelaps managed to miss my team mates final lap but when I spoke to him, it looked like he had to manually enter the race numbers for some reason, and had written down 368 rather than 268 so manually edited it.

Contact them with your race number and the approximate time of the missed lap and you may find something similar happened. I assumed the timing chips did all of that but seemingly not.

I found all of the fast riders perfectly polite when announcing their planned overtakes but I was only passed 5 or 6 times in total (down to luck rather than speed sadly!) so maybe not a true representation.

We had a great time – rode the 20 miles over, did the race, rode to the pub where we had so many beer tokens we drank til 3am, then rode home. Got to bed at 4.45am. Brilliant!

Here’s my feedback for what its worth.

Great event – we are so lucky to have this on our doorstep. Shame there aren’t more local events at Stanmer. Thanks to all those who put the time and effort in to organise the race.

My race went well – lapping at 1.00 hour pace – aim was five but stuck with four as the head was going a bit from concentrating too hard to stay on the bike – pesky roots.

Course was tricky in parts – surprised there was no chicken run on the steep chute to the bottom of badgers – far more tricky than A&E IMO. On the other hand forced me to ride it as no other way down.

I could imagine that would freek any beginners out a little!

My other comment is that there was a lot of shouting, barging, high speed overtaking going on from the leaders. I know they are serious athletes and happy to let them past whenever possible but not, totally, at the expense of my own ride. On multiple occassions people pushed past at high speed which forced me to move off line and f*** up a particular section. Not the end of the world of course but as a previous person mentioned we all pay our fee and its the middle rankers / beginners who make up a large portion of particiapants in any sport and add to the party atmosphere / onward development of the sport.

This is just a small niggle that doesn’t detract from a brilliant day but it would be a shame if the aforementioned group started to feel this race wasn’t for them.

It goes without saying if i was knocking out 9 laps my thoughts might be somewhat different.

DC (middle ranking vet)

I saw a lot of people being very patient behind slower riders. Not a lot of problems from my perspective.

I didnt shout out to slower riders once yet on my last lap some slower riders seemed to just dive out the way – quite handy really.

Thanks for the tip hughjayteens, I’ll pop them an email.

I’ve found that on a couple of races this year. The slower riders just stop at the side of the track for you to pass before you can even ask – makes me feel guilty!

We still like to be thanked though!

Yep my first BDB, even though I’m local. Been told by my son to make sure we keep next year’s weekend free.

Agree with darkcyan – only did the 1derdog but noted more ‘keenness’ on the part of the faster riders than most other races I’ve been in. I thought it was probably due to the amount of great singletrack where over-taking is harder.
Most riders were polite though which was good.

Here’s my excuse list ’09 – entries all gone 👿 particularly as I was Etape fit, ’10 – hols, ’11 – virus

TimP: Absolutely. Apart from just being nicer, people are usually way more cooperative if you’re polite to them and I like to think people would be equally decent when passing me.

Everyone was very nice at BD though. Even the two guys I moved aside for half way down A+E (battling 1st and 2nd in one of the team cats, I think, and absolutely hooning down) shouted thanks as they blatted past.

great day.

thoroughly dissapointed in my performance on teh climbs. defo could have done more laps but struggled mentally to attack the climbs. love the course after badgers. in fact on non race days i dont mind badgers either which is why i`m annoyed. doing the 3 peaks 2 weeks before is not good race prep.

passing was a bit hit and miss. i like to think i moved over where possible. some points it was hard to stop safely so you had accept to hold back till you could pass. suprisingly i only got overtook on the wider climbs. then i overtook back on the descents.

didnt think the roots were an issue at all. roots were a bit slippy on hte 2 techy climbs if you are stomping but otherwise you just ride them as normal?

being local meant either having loads of fun or being frustrated/amused in equal measure on the descents. i`m sure the descents are harder to ride slower. i had great fun.

no issued with passing. slower riders tended to move out of the way of their own accord. I asked a couple of times for a pass where safe. some of the intermediate riders needed a bit of encouragement to either not brake or move on the descent. Plenty of good banter/heckling/chat/encouragement and even a bit of racing on the way round.

wasnt keen on the marmite used to pave the top end of the course. horrible stuff – really sticky and energy sapping.

defo back next year. hopefully i`ll be able to train a bit before hand.

Some great pics here:

http://moranphotography.co.uk/brightonbigdog2012/

Passing is always a contentious topic at events where you have a mixture of fun and Elite riders on a course together. Opinions about what constitutes a passing opportunity vary considerably between people depending on their experience – you want to try an Elite National on the last lap…. I hope that I passed people politely and don’t remember otherwise. I always say thanks (although sometimes more clearly than others as it’s hard when you are breathing out of your arse) and usually “when we can please” if it’s a very long bit of trail.

It’s clearly a different event to XC race and I try to joke with riders when they make a mistake and pull in front of me, wobble or slow down rather than getting arsey. I did have a good giggle at the chap who kept blocking me on a descent where there was loads of room, then speared off into the trees as he was going a bit to fast. From behind you could see it coming… On the narrow bits I just sat and encouraged. I tend to find from these events that the shoving/rudeness isn’t actually the lead riders, who on the whole I know to be very polite as I race with them a lot, but is the level below that – riders in team kit thinking shoving and rudeness is ok on their quest for 29th…

I just wish people would learnt to look over their shoulder before suddenly pulling to one side of a fire road… I mean, you would check your blind spot in a car, right…?

It’s just a hobby. It’s meant to be fun and enjoyable. It always amazes and amuses me when I see people taking it all a little too seriously…

GB

I got my left and right a little mixed up when politely asked to move, so sorry for anyone I messed up – it was my first race. Had a brilliant time though – thanks to everyone who was there for making it a great day.

Gee I think you got it just about right in your post – hope we havent offended anyone who finished 29th!!!!

Was amazed at the skills of the better riders – its as if the roots / chalk / mud are not a concern to them – especially as they all had very fast looking tyres.

Great to get the insights of really good racers on this thread as dont often come into contact with them – that said me and paceman have got tickets to the olympic mens event next week.

Gee – just out of interest is it a given that Killeen or Beckensale would win BBD by a country mile or is it not quite so straight forward.

Would they find the course very easy?

DC

Great feedback so far – many thanks.

Looks like you’d like to see it back again in 2013 – excellent!

Yes, either of those two would win, although not by miles – Liam beats Ben by about 5-8 mins over a 1.5hr race, so maybe he’d win by 20mins or so. Depends how hard they tried, really. People tend to ride quick enough to win, if you see what I mean.

The course wasn’t particularly challenging in an “oh god I’m going to die” sense like some courses, but it was damn hard work to ride it fast for 6hrs. Just perfect for an endurance race. If you want a top tip here’s one from the 4X arm of our team – don’t brake on roots/rocks as you’ll crash. Just keep pedalling, pop the front wheel up and hang on. Worked for me.

GB

Gee thanks for the tip – just out of interest what course is one of those oh my god ones.

DC

That’s interesting reading, Gee, cheers. Well since this is the “Big Dog Training” thread….As someone further back doing 6 hour solos, I’d like to know how hard you front guys are pushing for six hours? I can see from the times that everyone’s laps drop off naturally but are you guys going fairly hard for the whole race to get those times? or are you beginning to coast a bit after the first couple of hours?

(another way of asking do I need to extend my base fitness so that my “coasting” speed is faster? or do I need to extend my endurance so I can keep up a hard effort for longer?) thanks!

I found this year’s National at Kirroughtree a bit like that as it had pissed with rain the days before so it was really muddy, dark, rooty, rocky and slippy. Medusa’s at Dalby also got me this year as it was hailing heavily. Normally not a problem in the dry. Watching the World Cups on the web I’d love to try Pietermartizburg as that looked mental with all the drops and jumps.

Jim – it’s a level down from and XC race. We pushed hard for a lap or so to make sure we didn’t get held up at the start or have a numpty crash in front of us, then slowed a bit. I felt like crap for the middle 2 hours so slowed by a min or so a lap, then felt better again at the end. In terms of training I think a combo of long rides to build endurance as well as an amount of interval training and of course weights/core is needed for this sort of event. At an XC race there is little/no time for rests eg behind a backmarker and there are a lot more attacks by riders during the race. Enduros are a lot more leisurely, we were having a chat, until someone gets knackered (which was me this weekend!).

What a great event… I haven’t really been enjoying riding in the past few weeks and BBD turned that around. Great atmosphere and a fun course.

Don’t know if he’s on here, but I do owe one of the slower riders (red jersey, riding a Cotic) an apology 😳

In my defence, we were 2nd in the team event and only a few minutes off first…

Slow rider held me up for a while on the 2nd-last descent and I just stayed behind because there was nowhere to pass. Then he stopped dead on a root across the trail. I managed to avoid crashing into the back of him, but he didn’t let me past. I asked if I could get by when he had the chance, and he finally did move out on a wider corner, stopping to let me through. But then his rear wheel swung back out into my path as I rode through, knocking my bars out-of-line. I passed, carried on a bit, stopped to straighten them, then passed him a bit later.

Wasn’t very polite to him after the lap when he suggested I tighten my bars 🙁

TBH, I was still a bit fired up from the lap.

Generally, people were really good out there, and I either ask nicely or just tell them where I’m going if I’m heading off-line to get past.