and yet they’d vote for a pig with a blue rosette.

Yeah they do…But it’s changing. Witney’s council is now Labour controlled, driven by votes of folk who can’t afford to live in Oxford, and commute. As is the Chair in Banbury council…A lot of it is as hereditary as the Red Wall used to be though, there’s a huge amount of “that’s how my parents voted…” Plus, massive farms and farm-workers who are very much “don’t bite the hand that feeds”

Thanks FB ATB… you are correct

It’s hard fighting a culture war with Vera Lynne, a painting of a Lancaster bomber and a few old statues as your ammunition when the other side’s got Stormzy and Banksy.

problem is, old uns do tend to vote more than young uns

the best thing anyone can do to help our local communities to recover as restrictions are lifted is to play their part and go out to work if you are able to do so

Come on plebs, serve us… we’re looking forward to eating out without hearing foreign accents.

I have listened to arguments that the North of England with the exception of the big City’s simple be written off as unfixable.

What Fatcha referred to as ‘managed decline’

Though there didn’t feel like there was any management going on at the time, just decline.

Sounds a bit better than ‘abandoned to their fate’ I suppose

the best thing anyone can do to help our local communities to recover as restrictions are lifted is to play their part and go out to work if you are able to do so

Marcus and Sebastian are visiting their holiday homes from London this weekend and I can’t find us a table at anywhere with an even half respectable wine list

I imagine that for an awful lot of people childcare costs are so prohibitively expensive that it’s simply not worth their while to work. So much of Tory policy is designed like this. On the face of it giving people choice is a great idea but for a lot of the working poor they’d be so much better off if childcare and education was universally of good quality and freely available rather than throwing them a few scraps of benefit and directing them to their nearest foodbank. If you’re trying to invest in a country’s future what literally embodies that better than investing in children?

Yeah, the fact that closing down all the Surestart centres was literally the first thing Dave and Gideon did after being elected tells you everything you need to know about the Tory’s priorities on that score

They don’t believe in investing in people. They’re happy to spaff countless billions on white elephant vanity projects like HS2, but commit resources to actually making the lives of normal people a bit easier or more rewarding, with training, education, childcare etc? not a chance

There’s an interview with Gordon Brown from ages back where he’s quite upset about pollig in red wall constituencies, showing a drift away from Labour. (that rot set in a while ago)
He was complaining because they’ve ‘poured billions into them’ – sure start was v expensive, but one of the only things in the last few years shown to help actually improve life chances-
Yet all the polling were worried about was immigration, even when they had v low immigrant numbers.

Sadly weve got regions stuck in a cycle of poor education & poverty & the Tories know exactly how to exploit that
Which is why Johnson & co will keep fighting the culture war, because without it they’ve got nothing

Yeah, the fact that closing down all the Surestart centres was literally the first thing Dave and Gideon did after being elected tells you everything you need to know about the Tory’s priorities on that score

The night of the last general election, MrsMC was preparing a court report at 3am to get some poor kid taken into care, and she worked it back to a point where, had Surestart been in place, the family would have been spotted and supported years before it got serious enough to justify a care order. And the bastards got voted back in with a thumping majority.

The long term costs to social services, the education system, the Police, the NHS, the court system up to that point – and going forwards probably future costs to the benefits system, maybe the prison system, before it all gets repeated for the next generation. All for the cost of upfront family support.

But benefits to society in 20 years time don’t win elections, because the politicians don’t care about the long term future of the country, only their own 5 year cycle of personal gain

Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

I imagine that for an awful lot of people childcare costs are so prohibitively expensive that it’s simply not worth their while to work.

In the real world people do in that situation is not pay expensive childcare but work opposite shifts and / or get family and friends to help.

This is what most of my ex colleagues did One works weekdays, their othe rhalf weekends or nights and days.

paid for childcare is simply too expensive for most but the don’t sit on on their arses and have no money – they find workarounds.

Not all jobs are that flexible, me and the wife met at uni so we have no family close by. If we wanted to keep our jobs / careers then childcare was a must. At one point it was more a month than our mortgage.

Yeah, the fact that closing down all the Surestart centres was literally the first thing Dave and Gideon did after being elected tells you everything you need to know about the Tory’s priorities on that score

Surely the LibDems also bear some responsibility? Quite a lot in fact. Danny Alexander was one of the chief architects of austerity, and Sarah Teather was children’s minister. Both of them are Liberal Democrats.

Why is it that LibDems always seem to get away with behaving like Tories but Tories never do?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12301690

“Children’s minister Sarah Teather said there was enough money available to maintain existing children’s centres.

She added that the new Early Intervention Grant gave local authorities the freedom to make the best decisions for the families in their areas.

But the level of this grant is 11% lower than the equivalent funding for the previous year.”

Not all jobs are that flexible, me and the wife met at uni so we have no family close by. If we wanted to keep our jobs / careers then childcare was a must. At one point it was more a month than our mortgage.

woosh whats that flying over your head?

– many people do not have that choice ‘cos they don’t earn enough so they have not make their job flexible but find a job with opposite shits

to afford full time childcare for two children yo have to be amongst the richest in our country and that is a position of privilege not available to most. so they work around it instead.

Actually scrap what I wrote, childcare is expensive but you don’t have to be among the richest for two kids, above average perhaps but not richest.

While I don’t know everyone, I also don’t know anyone who has changed weekend or evening shifts to avoid child care, in fact I know very few people who even have jobs where that’s an option. I’m sure some people do and I’m sure on STW we all like to talk in massive sweeping generalisations but I think you’re only talking about some.

If you’re trying to make a point, try throwing in less random words.

Lots of people don’t have close friends/family, or available flexible work that pays enough. Surprisingly Tory attitude TJ!

Surely the LibDems also bear some responsibility? Quite a lot in fact

And their fortunes since have reflected that (until a couple of weeks ago)

Looking at their time in coalition you can only draw one of two conclusions

1) dizzy on proximity to power they were happy to go along with pretty much anything in return for a ministerial limo

2) they were so utterly naive, useless and easily played that they were brushed aside by Dave and co and totally failed to rein in any of their excesses. Just hapless stooges

Neither of which makes you want to vote for them really, does it?

And then there was Jo Swinson

another woosh

the point is that for the vast majority of the country full time childcare is as affordable as a shot in Bransons rocket.

But IME unlike what Del claimed they do not sit on their arses bemoaning the fact – they get on with life and find workarounds

to be in a position to be able to afford full time childcare automatically means you are amongst the richest in the country.

It just really annoys me people complaining when they are in a position of incredible privilege. too much of it on here.

I have worked with loads of people who have to do this

sure some jobs are not that flexible – so you cannot do them. So you have to find one that is

Not all of us are office drones working 9-5, earnings in the top 10% of the country and able to afford childcare

I know professional people that never have a day off with their spouses because one is working while the other does cildcare but both work full or near full time

sorry I didn’t spell check and it is rather incomprehensible

Its this quote that got up my nose

“I imagine that for an awful lot of people childcare costs are so prohibitively expensive that it’s simply not worth their while to work. ”

Its a ridiculous lack of understanding how the majority live.

Why is it that LibDems always seem to get away with behaving like Tories but Tories never do?

That’s your memory of the legacy of the coalition? Really?

Its a ridiculous lack of understanding how the majority live.

No, he’s describing the position many people find themselves in. Many other people work insane hours either to work around their partner’s or other family member’s job, or to try and pay for the childcare… or both. But the people Binners Del describes exist as well. Of course they are not the “majority” though.

That’s your memory of the legacy of the coalition? Really?

Why do you have a predisposition to dream stuff up Kelvin?

I said, quote, “Why is it that LibDems always seem to get away with behaving like Tories but Tories never do?”

No mention anywhere about “legacy”. I am actually talking about the here and now. The Tories get regularly castigated on here for the the way they behaved in 2020-15 but the LibDems never seem to.

According to binners the LibDems behaved as they did because “they were so utterly naive, useless and easily played that they were brushed aside by Dave and co and totally failed to rein in any of their excesses. Just hapless stooges”

Which I think is a bit unfair on them. Vince Cable, a highly important contributor to the coalition’s economic policies is clearly no fool, among his very many appointments he has been a senior civil servant for the Kenyan government, first sec to the UK Foreign Office, worked for the CBI, special adviser to the UK trade sec, adviser to the Commonwealth, and chief economist to Shell.

Danny Alexander the austerity man doesn’t have quite have such an impressive CV but he is now vice president to a Beijing based bank.

These are not people who can be easily described as “utterly naive and useless”. And it’s difficult to see them as intellectually inferior to Cameron.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

Edit : Just to be clear…. binners comment “totally failed to rein in any of their excesses” gives the impression that the LibDems weren’t really enthusiastic supporters of austerity, they were very much so. Vince Cable and Danny Alexander were both extremely supportive of the policy of austerity, they in fact championed it.

Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing

Unless it’s the military or something they’re happy to push.

but the LibDems never seem to

Stop “dreaming stuff up”.

What does happen in the “here and now” is that policies enacted by the government since the LibDems became just a tiny force in the UK parliament are often blamed on the party actually in government. Well, apart from when you swing in to defend Blobby Blobby Johnson that is… and then suddenly nothing happening under his watch is his fault. It’s the fault of the LibDems, or the wrong kind of Labour, or something.

Well, apart from when you swing in to defend Blobby Blobby Johnson

Seriously Kelvin how old are you?

It is hard to imagine more puerile school yard language.

You have obviously got the hump because I have criticized the LibDems, but ffs try to maintain a minimum decorum.

Newsnight is getting a bit feisty.

It’s just been pointed out the bleeding obvious: ‘Levelling Up’ is presently nothing more than a 2-word slogan

They’re good at those

As the Labour MP pointed out, it’s a phrase used to mean ‘whatever you want it to mean’

As on so many occasions before it’s a case of the Vote Leave mob being extremely good at campaigning and absolutely terrible at everything after that

‘Levelling up’ is just vacuous PR drivel. It’s meaningless. An empty vessel. It’s lighter than air because there is zero substance to any of it. It’s a slogan and nothing more.

It’s worse than that, isn’t it essentially using the massive amounts of money they’ve taken away from local council budgets to offer bribes to the areas that are strategically useful to them? Then trying to dress that up as a positive thing.

The level of debate here is fantastic, so thanks for that, no-one will engage with me on politics on FB.
Doesn’t it make you so angry but yet sad that you can’t do anything about it?!

It’s actually worse than that. It’s essentially saying that if you vote in a Tory MP then we’ll give you back some of the money that we’ve slashed from your local councils budgets

However, if you don’t vote in a Tory MP then we carry on cutting.

These ****s are just utterly shameless

It’s the very definition of pork barrel politics

but the LibDems never seem to.

I do and get called out for doing so

But IME unlike what Del claimed they do not sit on their arses bemoaning the fact – they get on with life and find workarounds

I claimed no such thing. My point was not at all that people are sitting in their arses bemoaning the fact. It’s that people don’t have choice. Not everyone has a support network around them or are even in a relationship that allows them to work opposite shifts with anyone. No support from the state means they’re trapped and have no career progression and further stall pension contributions. Also means the kids don’t benefit from early learning which is supremely valuable. Parents get no respite either. Society needs children and a healthy progressing society needs healthy educated children to become productive. I have no idea why this is so hard to understand.

Re: leveling up, I agree with the GMB gen sec when he says “promises of ‘jam tomorrow’ don’t hold much hope when it’s Boris Johnson who is making them.”

I wouldn’t trust Johnson further than I throw him, he is an accomplished liar for whom lying is deeply embedded in his personality.

However. Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.

I don’t now think that the whole levelling up thing is simply an exercise to keep Tory former Labour seats sweet. He in fact makes the point that it’s not merely because it is the “morally right” thing to do.

A clear recognition of the contradictions of capitalism appears to be the primary motivation. Millions of people with poor purchasing power are not a good source of profit. Millions of inactive people sitting at home producing nothing are not a good source of profit. Ultimately the Tories primary concern is profit.

Johnson makes those points in his speech today, he talks about “squandering vast reserves of human capital”. And “greater regional prosperity means more customers and business for our national metropolises”.

Although he remains light on detail I believe Tory/capitalist self-interest might well deliver unexpected benefits.

Johnson really isn’t a politician in the true sense of the word, he is just an attention-seeking showman who uses politics as his vehicle. The advantage of that is that he is not driven by conviction and will embrace anything if he feels it will serve his interests and that of his class. I think he feels a logical attraction to Keynesian economics for obvious reasons, it provides a more stable model.

It is hard to imagine more puerile school yard language.

Blobby blobby blobby.

isn’t it essentially using the massive amounts of money they’ve taken away from local council budgets to offer bribes to the areas

Yup. As I said on a previous page, this doesn’t cost them a thing. Just keep forcing councils to cut services by cutting their budgets, and then use the money to fund the planning of headline projects for MPs to champion at the next election. The projects never have to come to fruition, and the cuts are someone else’s problem.

Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.

Hold my aching sides.

Johnson really isn’t a politician in the true sense of the word, he is just an attention-seeking showman…

Blobby!

Levelling up’ is just vacuous PR drivel. It’s meaningless. An empty vessel. It’s lighter than air because there is zero substance to any of it. It’s a slogan and nothing more.

…which has served it purpose.

Doesn’t matter how vaccuous their slogans are, they are successful at it.

Can you remember a Labour one post Corbyn? Neither can I

For the many, not the few.

People may fall for levelling up but in 10 years time when their lives are no better, or even worse, they will turn. It will take that long though unfortunately.

When they “turn”, I fear it will be to back a new Conservative PM promising a whole new load of nonsense and lies. People voted for Johnson’s lot off the back of not being happy with the results delivered by previous Conservative PMs after all.

However. Having heard some what he had to say today I am not quite as sceptical as I might have been.

As with so many things, don’t listen to what they say, look at what they do. Has this government actually DONE anything to ‘level up’ yet? Announced anything concrete? Anything more than slogans and soundbites?

Even if Johnson had any intention of ‘levelling up’ – and I don’t believe for a single second that he does – theres no way on earth he’ll get the support of the Tory party in doing so. They have zero interest in it in the first place, and they’ve made it abundantly clear that they will stand for no change to privilege enjoyed by certain areas of the country when it comes to spending. Ask Robert Jenrick where the last big load of ‘Towns Fund’ money went?

With them busy gerrymandering political boundries to further advantage themselves the status quo will become even further engrained. A two tier country with entirely different funding formulas and priorities.

Economic policy will continue to be set to exclusively benefit the South East, with the rest of the country little more than an afterthought. Other areas will be thrown the odd crumb from the table.

And as for regional devolution? The only thing that the Tories ever devolved way blame*.

If you think thats about to change then you’re hopelessly naive. And remember that any increase in spending will first have to cover the shortfall that Brexit has delivered in cutting infrastructure spending in more deprived areas that came directly from the EU.

Anyone seriously think that Johnsons supposed new largesse will even begin to cover that?

* It’s worked too. Voters in the former ‘red wall’ seats blame their former labour MPs and councillors for austerity and the huge cuts in funding, not the Tory’s at Westminster. Go figure….

Brazen mother ****…

“ A former Bullingdon Club member and university friend of Boris Johnson has been appointed to Whitehall’s independent sleaze watchdog”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/15/ex-bullingdon-club-member-appointed-to-whitehalls-sleaze-watchdog

And yeah, he’s in that photo. You know the black and white one, that makes you wish for time travel.

source ITV news – 2019

Ewen Fergusson is #4.